Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

gscreely said:
He did not lose $30k, maybe like $10k (because the machine was not worth what the guy said it was), he did get nearly 1000 blades out the door that would have never gone out otherwise, and he spent a few months of his life dedicated to that task. He may have unwittingly created a few more preorders to come in, but not that much, certainly far less the number of deliveries he got out. John has a passion for blades and saw an opportunity to get into the industry but did not realize the chaos that was survive.

There are a ton of blanks Survive has, and I have talked to John about how lousy it is that they will go to waste, but at this point they are stolen property and nobody can really ethically do anything with them. I am helping him set up his shop, and source materials, so no, he did not leave with a box of blanks, even though Survive does have tens of thousands that will probably go to waste.
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There was nothing "unwitting" about it.
 
garry3 said:
There was nothing "unwitting" about it.
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yup. Jon (and his buddies on YT) were 100% trying to generate sales. I have expressed my opinion about Jon in earlier posts. I will again say that there are a few notable holes in his account of his time at S!K. He may have filled some orders, but he also partnered with Guy. He deserves the stigma that goes along with his association with S!K.
 
ncrockclimb said:
yup. Jon (and his buddies on YT) were 100% trying to generate sales. I have expressed my opinion about Jon in earlier posts. I will again say that there are a few notable holes in his account of his time at S!K. He may have filled some orders, but he also partnered with Guy. He deserves the stigma that goes along with his association with S!K.
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I get the impression that Jon was gullible and had no idea what he was walking into.
The world is full of people who start talking before they're ready for prime time, and I think he's a great example of that.
I'm not sure if that's enough to make him complicit in a scam, but also in life we're often judged by the company we keep.
I'm sure any harm Jon did was a drop in the bucket compared to the colossal failure of Survive.
 
Follow-up from HST:


Some notes I took while listening, hope I got everything right:

- Wants to set the record straight for the companies affected.
- Spoke with NSM and ~10 companies they've worked with, all speak highly of NSM.
- Of the decarb issue, says Guy was taking off too much material pre-HT so he had no room for error post-HT.
- Guy tossed all those blanks out of anger since he couldn't grind past the affected material without affecting sheath fit.
- Maintains the voids were real. But out of hundreds and hundreds of blanks, only 20-25 had them. Not a huge financial hit like the decarb issue, which was Guy's fault.
- Maintains that CPM steels are at the top of the pyramid.
- He recouped most but not all of his original investment (minus 3 months of living expenses).
- Repeats that NSM, Peters’ HT, Millit Knives, and Larrin Thomas are not to blame.
- All that said though, those issues just sped up the inevitable. Guy and Ellie were driving it into the ground already, and Guy was looking for a scapegoat.
- Magnacut may be touchy with warping but is the real deal.
- Apologizes to all those whose reputation may have been affected.
- Survive was never profitable. Guy and Ellie ended up flat broke.
- Pre-order money was often just spent on paying off debt.
- When they moved locations, none of the banks that had liens on the equipment knew they had moved.
- He had to let another knife company know that the equipment they bought hadn't even been paid off yet.
- Calls their actions criminal. Guy’s name is on everything but there were other people involved.
- Despite what Guy claims, no more orders are going out. There's no pivot. It's over.
- Believes Guy’s video about pivoting was actually just to save face and advertise that he's selling equipment (which did indeed result in companies reaching out).
- Claims well over $1M in undelivered knives.
- Again apologizes to those affected.
 
lumi said:
Follow-up from HST:


Some notes I took while listening, hope I got everything right:

- Wants to set the record straight for the companies affected.
- Spoke with NSM and ~10 companies they've worked with, all speak highly of NSM.
- Of the decarb issue, says Guy was taking off too much material pre-HT so he had no room for error post-HT.
- Guy tossed all those blanks out of anger since he couldn't grind past the affected material without affecting sheath fit.
- Maintains the voids were real. But out of hundreds and hundreds of blanks, only 20-25 had them. Not a huge financial hit like the decarb issue, which was Guy's fault.
- Maintains that CPM steels are at the top of the pyramid.
- He recouped most but not all of his original investment (minus 3 months of living expenses).
- Repeats that NSM, Peters’ HT, Millit Knives, and Larrin Thomas are not to blame.
- All that said though, those issues just sped up the inevitable. Guy and Ellie were driving it into the ground already, and Guy was looking for a scapegoat.
- Magnacut may be touchy with warping but is the real deal.
- Apologizes to all those whose reputation may have been affected.
- Survive was never profitable. Guy and Ellie ended up flat broke.
- Pre-order money was often just spent on paying off debt.
- When they moved locations, none of the banks that had liens on the equipment knew they had moved.
- He had to let another knife company know that the equipment they bought hadn't even been paid off yet.
- Calls their actions criminal. Guy’s name is on everything but there were other people involved.
- Despite what Guy claims, no more orders are going out. There's no pivot. It's over.
- Believes Guy’s video about pivoting was actually just to save face and advertise that he's selling equipment (which did indeed result in companies reaching out).
- Claims well over $1M in undelivered knives.
- Again apologizes to those affected.
Click to expand...
He could have shared this info sooner, but I guess once he threw his money at Guy he had to play the game?
 
lumi said:
Follow-up from HST:


Some notes I took while listening, hope I got everything right:

- Wants to set the record straight for the companies affected.
- Spoke with NSM and ~10 companies they've worked with, all speak highly of NSM.
- Of the decarb issue, says Guy was taking off too much material pre-HT so he had no room for error post-HT.
- Guy tossed all those blanks out of anger since he couldn't grind past the affected material without affecting sheath fit.
- Maintains the voids were real. But out of hundreds and hundreds of blanks, only 20-25 had them. Not a huge financial hit like the decarb issue, which was Guy's fault.
- Maintains that CPM steels are at the top of the pyramid.
- He recouped most but not all of his original investment (minus 3 months of living expenses).
- Repeats that NSM, Peters’ HT, Millit Knives, and Larrin Thomas are not to blame.
- All that said though, those issues just sped up the inevitable. Guy and Ellie were driving it into the ground already, and Guy was looking for a scapegoat.
- Magnacut may be touchy with warping but is the real deal.
- Apologizes to all those whose reputation may have been affected.
- Survive was never profitable. Guy and Ellie ended up flat broke.
- Pre-order money was often just spent on paying off debt.
- When they moved locations, none of the banks that had liens on the equipment knew they had moved.
- He had to let another knife company know that the equipment they bought hadn't even been paid off yet.
- Calls their actions criminal. Guy’s name is on everything but there were other people involved.
- Despite what Guy claims, no more orders are going out. There's no pivot. It's over.
- Believes Guy’s video about pivoting was actually just to save face and advertise that he's selling equipment (which did indeed result in companies reaching out).
- Claims well over $1M in undelivered knives.
- Again apologizes to those affected.
Click to expand...
DocJekl said:
He could have shared this info sooner, but I guess once he threw his money at Guy he had to play the game?
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That’s nothing more than a CYA video in hopes of salvaging his reputation.
 
Jon (and his pals on YT) were more than happy to shill for S!K when Jon was an owner. Jon (and his pals on YT) were totally dismissive, and at times total assholes, to anyone that pointed to the issues with S!K (the massive backlog, that the company was not solvent, and the lack of honesty on the part of the owners). Turns out almost everything Jon (and his pals on YT) were denying was accurate...

So imho, Jon is a mix of stupid, unethical and greedy. He may have worked hard at S!K for a few weeks. He probably shipped some knives that would not have gone out otherwise. All that is good. But it appears to me that he only changed his position on S!K and started being transparent AFTER Guy pissed him off and he realized that his investment was not going to pay off...

I find his latest video to be self-serving and an attempt to repair his rep. Meh.
 
Boru13 said:
That’s nothing more than a CYA video in hopes of salvaging his reputation.
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This is how it's reading to me, especially given that he's attempting to stand up his own knife concern. I know concretely that I will never buy a knife from him, given his part played in this whole sordid affair.
 
ncrockclimb said:
Jon (and his pals on YT) were more than happy to shill for S!K when Jon was an owner. Jon (and his pals on YT) were totally dismissive, and at times total assholes, to anyone that pointed to the issues with S!K (the massive backlog, that the company was not solvent, and the lack of honesty on the part of the owners). Turns out almost everything Jon (and his pals on YT) were denying was accurate...

So imho, Jon is a mix of stupid, unethical and greedy. He may have worked hard at S!K for a few weeks. He probably shipped some knives that would not have gone out otherwise. All that is good. But it appears to me that he only changed his position on S!K and started being transparent AFTER Guy pissed him off and he realized that his investment was not going to pay off...

I find his latest video to be self-serving and an attempt to repair his rep. Meh.
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If you look at it correctly, he also inadvertently confirmed* that he is what I and many others have been saying he is all along: a guy who would pay other companies to actually make S?K knife components, sheathes, and have them heat-treated by others and all he ever did was put them together, grind off any rough edges, and sharpen them. This clown should have had knives flying out the door given how little actual work was involved on his part!!! Instead, he saw how easy it was to rook people for huge cash infusions and decided that that was the real business and went with that. Friggin' bum. Nobody can tell us ever again how his knives were all made to his "impossibly high standards", because A. dude had no standards and B. dude wasn't making knives.



* For those few who still somehow believed this guy was actually making anything himself
 
Quiet said:
If you look at it correctly, he also inadvertently confirmed* that he is what I and many others have been saying he is all along: a guy who would pay other companies to actually make S?K knife components, sheathes, and have them heat-treated by others and all he ever did was put them together, grind off any rough edges, and sharpen them. This clown should have had knives flying out the door given how little actual work was involved on his part!!! Instead, he saw how easy it was to rook people for huge cash infusions and decided that that was the real business and went with that. Friggin' bum. Nobody can tell us ever again how his knives were all made to his "impossibly high standards", because A. dude had no standards and B. dude wasn't making knives.



* For those few who still somehow believed this guy was actually making anything himself
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yup. also, Guy was incompetent in the processes he did in-house. And when people pointed that out in the comments on Jon's videos (and the videos posted by his pals on YT), Jon derided them as trolls. Seriously, the more Jon talks the lower my opinion of him.
 
Boru13 said:
That’s nothing more than a CYA video in hopes of salvaging his reputation.
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I agree. That said, I do appreciate hearing all the nasty little details that confirm what we have been discussing here on bladeforums for nearly a decade.

He mentions not knowing how it was possible for guy and ellie to get themselves to this point, ie run this scam for so long.

Well Jon, it is because of people like you. Whether it is the click baiting youboober, the shilling blog poster, or the ball washing fanboy on this very forum (some still here washing other balls), it is people like this that refused to listen to facts, for whatever reason, and continued to give this con legs, so guy could keep from sinking with preorder after preorder.

All the aforementioned are responsible. And honestly Jon, they folks at the end are the most. All the people who read these pages on bf too. The mountain of evidence on survive was undeniable from nearly the very start. People who ignored it and continued to shill are why. I for one won't be giving them a pass, just like guy and ellie.
 
So he's claiming he went into business with someone, without doing any research about their company first?
 
gscreely said:
He did not lose $30k, maybe like $10k (because the machine was not worth what the guy said it was), he did get nearly 1000 blades out the door that would have never gone out otherwise, and he spent a few months of his life dedicated to that task. He may have unwittingly created a few more preorders to come in, but not that much, certainly far less the number of deliveries he got out. John has a passion for blades and saw an opportunity to get into the industry but did not realize the chaos that was survive.

There are a ton of blanks Survive has, and I have talked to John about how lousy it is that they will go to waste, but at this point they are stolen property and nobody can really ethically do anything with them. I am helping him set up his shop, and source materials, so no, he did not leave with a box of blanks, even though Survive does have tens of thousands that will probably go to waste.
Click to expand...
I’ve had an incredibly poor view of him based on how he responded to youtube comments and what I viewed to be his shilling in his and his buddies’ videos. That being said, I have enough respect for you, how you have conducted yourself and the 3 incredible blades of yours I own to not doubt your accounting of events. I look forward to see what comes of it and hope he isn’t trying to deceive you as well.
 
Not a single apology to all the people that believed in him and (pre)ordered knives on his watch.

Sure hope the community remembers well how the two were complicit and activity participating in the well-known and obvious ponzi scheme that was SK

we've had too many of these thieves in the community to let it go
 
Either he was in on the scam or he is dumb as a bag of rocks. I will not do business with him.
 
r8shell said:
So he's claiming he went into business with someone, without doing any research about their company first?
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Either that or he ignored the negative he saw. I'm not sure which is worse. Seems to me that shilling youtubers have a dim view of places like BF's where the content is out of their control. It's too bad, because everything he discovered in real life, and at embarrassingly great expense, we have been saying for over 8 years.
 
craytab said:
Either that or he ignored the negative he saw. I'm not sure which is worse. Seems to me that shilling youtubers have a dim view of places like BF's where the content is out of their control. It's too bad, because everything he discovered in real life, and at embarrassingly great expense, we have been saying for over 8 years.
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It all comes back to the "influencer" culture and their over-inflated sense of worth to society at large. How could those of us without a YouTube channel possibly be able to figure things out for ourselves? This knife business probably won't amount to anything anyway because in order for that to happen hands have to be dirtied, and you can't spend all day posing for a camera.

Gotta love it when these jackasses figure out that the world doesn't revolve around them and doesn't really care about their opinions.
 
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