Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

Quiet

"That guy"
Gold Member
Feedback: 87 / 0 / 0
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
15,661
fraudulent to charge

I w

I would imagine that BHQ would be getting the knives around the same time the orders for the 4.5 come out, as they produce one model at a time in batches. I'd doubt they would start advertising if they did not think they were going to get the knives.

If the pre-order people are feeling the delay, I'd imagine this would be true for BHQ... I was told my knife was actually done, but sitting there not shopping because of delays for the sheath design with an outside company.... or something along those lines. They always seem to be a victim of an other company's fuck up.

For the record, if you're a knife maker who makes fixed blades, but can't figure out how to make sheaths for your knives, to the point that you allow it to derail your whole production schedule while you wait for someone else to do it, you don't deserve to be in business! 😅 😅

There are dudes on Instagram making knives with a sheath, one at a time, who have a better delivery record than these scumbags, that's just hilarious to me.
 
Feedback: 5 / 0 / 0
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
17,738
For the record, if you're a knife maker who makes fixed blades, but can't figure out how to make sheaths for your knives, to the point that you allow it to derail your whole production schedule while you wait for someone else to do it, you don't deserve to be in business! 😅 😅

There are dudes on Instagram making knives with a sheath, one at a time, who have a better delivery record than these scumbags, that's just hilarious to me.
Yeah, but then they really wouldn't have anyone but themselves to blame for delays and it's not like they're gonna let that happen.
 

unwisefool

Gold Member
Feedback: 10 / 0 / 0
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
7,497
I'm just spit balling here... but my guess is that their manufacturing processes is extremely linear and lean. They take orders, get the steel done, then order the handle parts, then the sheaths. So given that the model I ordered was new, they didn't make or could not make, a prototype to send in advance to the sheath maker. They must finish step A to get to step B and then to C until the process of building the knife is done. Which probably saves them some money, but any hiccup in quality or parts availability in the process will create extreme delays. A low tolerance for quality not up to spec by the QC process and a major wrench is thrown into the whole process further down the line to the waiting customer.

I am also guessing the staff may not have the capacity to build any one knife or model from ground up like other makers in their class. I am sure they can reduce the steed, grind/sharpen it and assemble. Perhaps they can't do a one offs or small batches due to either limited tools, material, skill, personnel, and time… or all the above.

They appear to me as being set up for doing, or are setting up for, distributor businesses like BHQ; but want to retain the craft knife aesthetic for marketing purposes, maintaining retail sales... or whatever. With the outfit they have, they should be strictly focused on orders to distributors and pull out of the retail game all together. That would save them the time and grief and ultimately help with cash flow. However, they are to risk adverse and do not want to take on debt. So, in order to scale up they used the pre-sales as easy and interest free loan. GofundMe Style campaigns are great for your nephew’s t-shirt company, but seriously limits a small business immensely in the long run. I'm guessing the tactic worked before when the were smaller, they tried it again not recognizing that the business had fundamentally changed since then.

During the pandemic we saw so many small businesses fail in part because they had no debt, which meant they had no banking relationships built up over the years. Sure, they ran a profitable business with little to no outstanding loans to hold them down, but this leaves few options for weathering out trouble or adapting to change. The books look good, but the company can be ruined with any adversity faced. Covid restrictions didn’t directly close as many businesses as people think it did. The restrictions simply accelerated the inevitable with some shody businesses, and exposed the financial weaknesses of others, even those who thought they were profitable before the restrictions. Small business like to cut corners and they pay for it in the long. Not hiring enough staff, owners not paying themselves, owners controlling every aspect of the business, irrational fear of debt, etc. What Survive is caught up in is not nefarious or criminal. They are also not a ponzi scheme as some in here have suggested....
What they are going through is actually pretty common in other small businesses. We have to be careful to also not compare them unfairly to smaller businesses like hobby builders, and very large companies both types of busnesses who can absorb wasteful practices and where the margins are not as thin. I have consulted with many businesses like them before, but in a different industry. All I know is just from personal observations... take my comments with a grain of salt, as I could be wrong.

I think they are genuine and not bad people at all. I hold no animus towards them, just extremely disappointed I was lied to and as of yet, not refunded.
This was a lot of typing to come to the absolute wrong conclusion
 
Last edited:
Feedback: 0 / 0 / 0
Joined
Aug 10, 2021
Messages
17
This was a lot of typing to come to the absolute wrong conclusion
I think perhaps context is important for others to understand why the company has created such frustrations. Reducing everything to conspiracy theories or unfounded accusations that Guy is just a crook, as other have done in this threat does nothing to better the situation, or is there is anything to gain from it.

Just like stating that I have come to the wrong conclusion, without saying what and why. You could have simply ignored the post. However, you decided to reply with a terribly lazy and weak-ass snarky comment.
 

CataD

Gold Member
Feedback: 43 / 0 / 0
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
1,589
However, they are to risk adverse and do not want to take on debt.
Nope, that's not true. No bank or other financial institution would give them a loan, and this was before they even started. I don't remember exactly, but I think it had to do with some legal issue Guy had when he was young. It was discussed here, on BF, you'll have to search for it.
 
Feedback: 2 / 0 / 0
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
22,597
Right. It's Stockholm Syndrome because I can separate someone's business choices with there character.
Exactly. Guy only steals from strangers; that's bad business. If he stole from friends and family too that would be bad character.

Those people who ordered the knives had a lot of money and need it a lot less that Guy and Ellie do. They're just doing some wealth redistribution. Like Robin Hood.

If you think about it they're really the hero's in this and the folks who want their knives are the villains.
 
Feedback: 0 / 0 / 0
Joined
Aug 10, 2021
Messages
17
Interesting... . His personal financial situation and criminal background is his own business. In my experience banks tend to lend based relationships and risk...

I find it hard to believe that no lending institution would lend a small company $$$ with X amount of orders on hand and some collateral. That's kinda how they make money.
 

CataD

Gold Member
Feedback: 43 / 0 / 0
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
1,589
Interesting... . His personal financial situation and criminal background is his own business. In my experience banks tend to lend based relationships and risk...

I find it hard to believe that no lending institution would lend a small company $$$ with X amount of orders on hand and some collateral. That's kinda how they make money.
Yeah, right... looks like you don't know what talking about. Here, I've done the work for you, from Ellie at SK https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...eading-lead-tlme.1447253/page-5#post-16663662

For your convenience:
Yes, 17 years ago Guy was an impulsive 19-year-old who made a mistake. Afterward, he was upfront and honest about what he had done and served his time without incident. Since then he has been an upstanding citizen and has done nothing to get himself in any sort of trouble again. Here is a letter of recommendation from the person he wronged.

View attachment 671377

As far as the bankruptcy, he was still a young man trying to find his way in the world, which was especially difficult with his past. He ran up a bit too much in credit card debt and was advised that filing bankruptcy was his best option (Even the new president elect has a few bankruptcies filed). Guy did learn from his experiences. He brought in a business partner to help manage the finances. That partner focused more on sales rather than production, so he was removed from the company. Now I manage the finances, though Guy does still have the final say over business decisions.

We have been assured multiple times by banks that his past would not be a problem and that they would definitely be able to help us with growth financing. It was confusing when we kept getting denied despite good numbers and an excellent credit score. Finally, we received a letter saying that it is against their company policy to lend to felons or businesses who are owned by felons. We are also disqualified from SBA lending for the same reason, they love business who hire felons but apparently not businesses owned by one.

Despite all of that, we are still here and we are still delivering product. We have missed deadlines, but we are getting better. The last of the GSO-4.7 Preorders are being boxed up now and remaining models should go much more quickly. We have never failed to deliver an order and we have every intention of delivering every order that has been placed with us.
 
Feedback: 0 / 0 / 0
Joined
Aug 10, 2021
Messages
17
Exactly. Guy only steals from strangers; that's bad business. If he stole from friends and family too that would be bad character.

Those people who ordered the knives had a lot of money and need it a lot less that Guy and Ellie do. They're just doing some wealth redistribution. Like Robin Hood.

If you think about it they're really the hero's in this and the folks who want their knives are the villains.
again, I am not defending the company...I'm just as upset as everyone else...... just saying I am not going down the conspiracy rabbit hole thinking he's some serial fraudster. It's one thing to be bad at something, and another to be a criminal. same as calling someone a liar. in order to do so, you need to know the underlying intent. if there is no proof, ethically it should not be done.

Example: I have not received my refund. I have no reason to believe he has zero intention of not honoring it. Has he not gotten to it in a timely fashion because he's too cheap to hire a temporary worker to help them get caught up... that's probably a more likely scenario. According the the repsosense on the BBB page, he has refunded people. So, I'll keep putting pressure on the company through the BBB, this forum, and soical media until i get it..... and would not encourage others to buy from them until they get thier act together.

A little social pressure can help businesses re-prioritize choices, but unfounded accusations de-legitimizes the entire effort.

IMO unless someone has actual proof that Survive Knives intended to fraud their customers, what we have been experiencing is just bad business decisions. ... I am new on the forums, but I have read enough of the previous posts to feel comfortable with saying some people's unfounded allegations are pretty wild and not helping in the end.
 
Feedback: 1 / 0 / 0
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
669
again, I am not defending the company...I'm just as upset as everyone else...... just saying I am not going down the conspiracy rabbit hole thinking he's some serial fraudster. It's one thing to be bad at something, and another to be a criminal. same as calling someone a liar. in order to do so, you need to know the underlying intent. if there is no proof, ethically it should not be done.

Example: I have not received my refund. I have no reason to believe he has zero intention of not honoring it. Has he not gotten to it in a timely fashion because he's too cheap to hire a temporary worker to help them get caught up... that's probably a more likely scenario. According the the repsosense on the BBB page, he has refunded people. So, I'll keep putting pressure on the company through the BBB, this forum, and soical media until i get it..... and would not encourage others to buy from them until they get thier act together.

A little social pressure can help businesses re-prioritize choices, but unfounded accusations de-legitimizes the entire effort.

IMO unless someone has actual proof that Survive Knives intended to fraud their customers, what we have been experiencing is just bad business decisions. ... I am new on the forums, but I have read enough of the previous posts to feel comfortable with saying some people's unfounded allegations are pretty wild and not helping in the end.
An "interesting" stance you've taken... Not suspicious at *all*. <eye roll>
 
Feedback: 0 / 0 / 0
Joined
Aug 10, 2021
Messages
17
Yeah, right... looks like you don't know what talking about. Here, I've done the work for you, from Ellie at SK https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...eading-lead-tlme.1447253/page-5#post-16663662

For your convenience:
that was 22 years ago...almost a 1/4 of a century...one crime....

. I could be wrong but the SBA and most lending institutions will work with felons after 5 years. it's all about relationships and risk.... perhaps they gave up trying.... but I stand by my comments.
 

bonky

Gold Member
Feedback: 26 / 0 / 0
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
750
again, I am not defending the company...I'm just as upset as everyone else...... just saying I am not going down the conspiracy rabbit hole thinking he's some serial fraudster. It's one thing to be bad at something, and another to be a criminal. same as calling someone a liar. in order to do so, you need to know the underlying intent. if there is no proof, ethically it should not be done.

Example: I have not received my refund. I have no reason to believe he has zero intention of not honoring it. Has he not gotten to it in a timely fashion because he's too cheap to hire a temporary worker to help them get caught up... that's probably a more likely scenario. According the the repsosense on the BBB page, he has refunded people. So, I'll keep putting pressure on the company through the BBB, this forum, and soical media until i get it..... and would not encourage others to buy from them until they get thier act together.

A little social pressure can help businesses re-prioritize choices, but unfounded accusations de-legitimizes the entire effort.

IMO unless someone has actual proof that Survive Knives intended to fraud their customers, what we have been experiencing is just bad business decisions. ... I am new on the forums, but I have read enough of the previous posts to feel comfortable with saying some people's unfounded allegations are pretty wild and not helping in the end.
You're communicating with people who have been here through the entire history of S?K.

There's a good reason that they are banned and in the Hall of Shame. Not many are going to do your homework for you. If you use the Search function you'll find out the allegations are very well founded.
 

unwisefool

Gold Member
Feedback: 10 / 0 / 0
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
7,497
I think perhaps context is important for others to understand why the company has created such frustrations. Reducing everything to conspiracy theories or unfounded accusations that Guy is just a crook, as other have done in this threat does nothing to better the situation, or is there is anything to gain from it.

Just like stating that I have come to the wrong conclusion, without saying what and why. You could have simply ignored the post. However, you decided to reply with a terribly lazy and weak-ass snarky comment.
I don't think you quite grasp the history of what they have done. There are pages upon pages here of examples of their shady behavior, illegal ordering policy and years of lies, but despite all that you wrote:

I think they are genuine and not bad people at all. I hold no animus towards them, just extremely disappointed I was lied to and as of yet, not refunded.
In one sentence you say they are genuine and not bad and then in the next sentence say you are disappointed because they literally lied to you. So you are not only ignoring the interactions that many members have had, but your own as well. That's some next level cognitive dissonance right there. There, was that more detailed for you?

P.S. my other comment was not weak and lazy, it was succinct. Snarky? Maybe, but that's what I do. 😘
 
Feedback: 1 / 0 / 0
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
669
so... i get an "eye roll" because im not a REMOVED child who uses passive aggresive comments on a REMOVED forum?
You get an eye roll, because you strolled in here all "Hey guys! They treated me bad too!!!! But let me explain ad-nauseum about how 'They're *really* just mis-understood, and you should give them a chance!' "

Heard it all before.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Foghorn Leghorn Fan

Platinum Member
Feedback: 188 / 0 / 1
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
736
so... i get an "eye roll" because im not a REMOVED child who uses passive aggresive comments on a REMOVED forum?
Well it appears you are the eternal optpmist regarding a knife company that has been banned from this knife forum, however you resort to cursing when you recieve an eye roll. Whether you are a child or not is determined by how you comport yourself.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top