Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

[Blackswanoutdoors]

lol

 

[Insipid Moniker]

again, I am not defending the company...I'm just as upset as everyone else...... just saying I am not going down the conspiracy rabbit hole thinking he's some serial fraudster. It's one thing to be bad at something, and another to be a criminal. same as calling someone a liar. in order to do so, you need to know the underlying intent. if there is no proof, ethically it should not be done.

Example: I have not received my refund. I have no reason to believe he has zero intention of not honoring it. Has he not gotten to it in a timely fashion because he's too cheap to hire a temporary worker to help them get caught up... that's probably a more likely scenario. According the the repsosense on the BBB page, he has refunded people. So, I'll keep putting pressure on the company through the BBB, this forum, and soical media until i get it..... and would not encourage others to buy from them until they get thier act together.

A little social pressure can help businesses re-prioritize choices, but unfounded accusations de-legitimizes the entire effort.

IMO unless someone has actual proof that Survive Knives intended to fraud their customers, what we have been experiencing is just bad business decisions. ... I am new on the forums, but I have read enough of the previous posts to feel comfortable with saying some people's unfounded allegations are pretty wild and not helping in the end.

Wait, did you think I told you to report them to the FTC for fun? I did it because what they're doing is illegal. What they've done to you, specifically, is illegal. If you go past your delivery estimate you must contact the customer offering a refund and if you don't hear from them you have to cancel their order and issue the refund automatically.

 

[CataD]

that was 22 years ago...almost a 1/4 of a century...one crime....

. I could be wrong but the SBA and most lending institutions will work with felons after 5 years. it's all about relationships and risk.... perhaps they gave up trying.... but I stand by my comments.

Well, looks like Ellie proved that you're wrong.

 

[Blackswanoutdoors]

that's not what I said.... at all. It was an explanation from my point of view and at no point did I say give them a chance. They lied to me, and had no refunded me.... why would i say give them a chance?
I have no quarrel with you, and see no reason why you needed to come at me like that.

 

[benchwarmer380]

IMO unless someone has actual proof that Survive Knives intended to fraud their customers, what we have been experiencing is just bad business decisions. ... I am new on the forums, but I have read enough of the previous posts to feel comfortable with saying some people's unfounded allegations are pretty wild and not helping in the end.

The first post in this thread was almost 3 years ago. Issues with this company started 4-5 years prior to that. They have been making the same bad business decisions and delivering the same excuses and promises to do better for pretty much the duration. Then the cycle repeats. And repeats. And repeats.


At this point, whether they are intentionally defrauding their customers or are just that bad at business is a distinction without a difference.

A little social pressure can help businesses re-prioritize choices, but unfounded accusations de-legitimizes the entire effort.

Any accusations levied towards this company are because of their own doing. This was not an overnight thing. There were many in their corner rooting for them and hoping this next time would be the time that they improve their practices but they always came up short. Years of social pressure has not done a damn thing.

 

[Serviam]

Example: I have not received my refund. I have no reason to believe he has zero intention of not honoring it.

Here you go.

We don’t want to fight and go toe to toe with people to get your money back

then

19:25 - We’re going to fight you toe to toe about getting a refund because you initially ordered a knife because you knew what you were going to get at the end of the day.

Good luck with your refund.

 

[scarysamcary]

I think they are genuine and not bad people at all.

This is gonna piss some people off

 

[unwisefool]

that was 22 years ago...almost a 1/4 of a century...one crime....

. I could be wrong but the SBA and most lending institutions will work with felons after 5 years. it's all about relationships and risk.... perhaps they gave up trying.... but I stand by my comments.

You still need to pass a credit check and come up with part of the funding for an SBA loan. You also need to have a solid business plan. So right there are 3 points of failure.

 

[braillediver]

They got a loan- They bought an old bank building in Idaho.

If they really wanted to make knives- They would. For some reason in all these years- They haven't. It's one of the simplest designs out there. Nothing they do is rocket science- It's all process driven.

After all these years they should know exactly how long and how much work it takes to make a knife. How can Tesla make a car like they do with all the vendors they have to deal with and these people can't make a knife?

 

[Triton]

I'm just spit balling here... but my guess is that their manufacturing processes is extremely linear and lean. They take orders, get the steel done, then order the handle parts, then the sheaths. So given that the model I ordered was new, they didn't make or could not make, a prototype to send in advance to the sheath maker. They must finish step A to get to step B and then to C until the process of building the knife is done. Which probably saves them some money, but any hiccup in quality or parts availability in the process will create extreme delays. A low tolerance for quality not up to spec by the QC process and a major wrench is thrown into the whole process further down the line to the waiting customer.

I think that you are an honest guy and so you tend to think in terms of how you as an honest guy might find yourself in such a situation.

They appear to me as being set up for doing, or are setting up for, distributor businesses like BHQ; but want to retain the craft knife aesthetic for marketing purposes, maintaining retail sales... or whatever.

I'll take whatever for 500 Alex. I think they have found a new revenue stream, but they can't outright tell the chumps they have been stringing along for all this time that they are going to continue to string them along.

What Survive is caught up in is not nefarious or criminal. They are also not a ponzi scheme as some in here have suggested....


I think they are genuine and not bad people at all. I hold no animus towards them, just extremely disappointed I was lied to and as of yet, not refunded.

Good people don't lie to you. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and doesn't deliver knives it might be a duck that works for survive.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Our oldest orders right now are from March 2015 when we did the SURVIVE! Starter campaign. More than 80% of the original Starter orders have been completed.

Just putting this here to gain some perspective on what Survive has actually accomplished, in their own words, as far as completing their old outstanding orders.

The top quote is from Ellie and was made on August 2nd, 2018. She says that they've completed ALL orders prior to 2015 and are 80% finished with the 2015 pre-orders.

Then we fast forward almost exactly three years and we see they only completed 15% more of those 2015 orders.

So in the first three years they fulfilled 80% of the 2015 orders and then took three more years and only managed to fulfill 5% of those orders per year.

I think that says more about their commitment, or lack thereof, to fulfilling backorders than anything else.

 

[danbot]

Interesting that you saw that. Aomeone asked over in the comments of that video (as rockspydre) if they were producing knives for Blade HQ before they had delivered all the knives customers had ordered. Or asked something to that effect. His response:

"We are working on something with Blade HQ but there is nothing to publicly talk about yet, which is why we didn't mention it. Everything they're ordering is part of an ongoing production run and won't cause any delay in folks receiving their orders. It is extremely important to both Blade HQ and SURVIVE! to have longstanding orders fulfilled before launching any sort of dealer program. Our relationship with Blade HQ is part of an effort to streamline our production down to a few core models and get our house back in order."

So.... I wonder how SOON Blade HQ is getting any knives. I mean... soon IS relative with Survive...

Get our house BACK in order?!?! Hahahahaha! "BACK" in order!

 

[Quiet]

again, I am not defending the company...I'm just as upset as everyone else...... just saying I am not going down the conspiracy rabbit hole thinking he's some serial fraudster. It's one thing to be bad at something, and another to be a criminal. same as calling someone a liar. in order to do so, you need to know the underlying intent. if there is no proof, ethically it should not be done.

Example: I have not received my refund. I have no reason to believe he has zero intention of not honoring it. Has he not gotten to it in a timely fashion because he's too cheap to hire a temporary worker to help them get caught up... that's probably a more likely scenario. According the the repsosense on the BBB page, he has refunded people. So, I'll keep putting pressure on the company through the BBB, this forum, and soical media until i get it..... and would not encourage others to buy from them until they get thier act together.

A little social pressure can help businesses re-prioritize choices, but unfounded accusations de-legitimizes the entire effort.

IMO unless someone has actual proof that Survive Knives intended to fraud their customers, what we have been experiencing is just bad business decisions. ... I am new on the forums, but I have read enough of the previous posts to feel comfortable with saying some people's unfounded allegations are pretty wild and not helping in the end.

This apologist nonsense is exactly what allows S?K to keep being the ponzi scheme garbage company it is. Period.

 

[Quiet]

again, I am not defending the company...I'm just as upset as everyone else......

Words from the guy who's here and who wrote a seventeen page dissertation in their defense.

I also love how you then deleted that post because I think even you realize what you'd done.

"I think they are genuine and not bad people at all."

He says, about bums who are still hanging onto his money.

 

[danbot]

I think perhaps context is important for others to understand why the company has created such frustrations. Reducing everything to conspiracy theories or unfounded accusations that Guy is just a crook, as other have done in this threat does nothing to better the situation, or is there is anything to gain from it.

Just like stating that I have come to the wrong conclusion, without saying what and why. You could have simply ignored the post. However, you decided to reply with a terribly lazy and weak-ass snarky comment.

Conspiracy theories? Really? They take interest free loans from their victi...customers and don't deliver on their promises for years on end, constantly using BS excuses to prolong their games. How do you think this will end?
If Guy is not a crook, then he certainly is a liar and a shitty businessman, to the point of having no business running a business!

 

[Quiet]

I think perhaps context is important for others to understand why the company has created such frustrations. Reducing everything to conspiracy theories or unfounded accusations that Guy is just a crook, as other have done in this threat does nothing to better the situation, or is there is anything to gain from it.

Just like stating that I have come to the wrong conclusion, without saying what and why. You could have simply ignored the post. However, you decided to reply with a terribly lazy and weak-ass snarky comment.

Hey look guys, despite all the actual concrete proof, this guy believes it's all "unfounded accusations" and unsubstantiated hearsay. "Without saying what and why", as though he fails to realize he's in a thread where it's been nearly 60 pages of EXACTLY that.

Sackwasher fanbags who come in and try to act like they're anything else always annoy me. A brand new member where all his posts are in this thread? Yeah, THAT'S definitely not suspicious at all.

Do they even actually still owe you money? Or was that a story you told to attempt to give yourself some credibility before starting in on the tonguebathing as though you hoped we'd be like "Wait, so if this guy who that scumbag felon Guy has defrauded* can say nice things, maybe WE'RE the bad guys here, and Guy and Ellie are just two nice, honest people who got in a little over their head!"

Yeah, no, he's a friggin' bum, and you're a shill.



* Which is usually what it's called when you've given money and received neither the product you paid for, nor a refund because you were deceived into thinking you were getting a product. LOL

 

[jlauffer]

IMO unless someone has actual proof that Survive Knives intended to fraud their customers, what we have been experiencing is just bad business decisions.

Even if that's true, where do you draw the line? 5 years? 10? 20? When is enough enough?

And yes, intention certainly can make a big difference. For example, involuntary manslaughter is very different from first degree murder, but they're still both crimes.

 

[dogboye]

Exactly. Guy only steals from strangers; that's bad business. If he stole from friends and family too that would be bad character.

Those people who ordered the knives had a lot of money and need it a lot less that Guy and Ellie do. They're just doing some wealth redistribution. Like Robin Hood.

If you think about it they're really the hero's in this and the folks who want their knives are the villains.

LOL.... That's some funny sh** right there!

Nope, that's not true. No bank or other financial institution would give them a loan, and this was before they even started. I don't remember exactly, but I think it had to do with some legal issue Guy had when he was young. It was discussed here, on BF, you'll have to search for it.

Interesting... . His personal financial situation and criminal background is his own business. In my experience banks tend to lend based relationships and risk...

I find it hard to believe that no lending institution would lend a small company $$$ with X amount of orders on hand and some collateral. That's kinda how they make money.

that was 22 years ago...almost a 1/4 of a century...one crime....

. I could be wrong but the SBA and most lending institutions will work with felons after 5 years. it's all about relationships and risk.... perhaps they gave up trying.... but I stand by my comments.

Some consequences of felony convictions are permanent. It appears this is one of them. Even if it isn't, they are too far down the rabbit hole of bad business decisions, complaints to the BBB, and maybe(?) the FTC for any bank to touch them, even if they had turned over "ownership" to Ellie, and she just employed Guy (which may be something they should have considered).

They may have started out sincerely, and had no intention of defrauding anyone. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and the more bad decisions you make, the easier it is to suddenly find yourself the bad guy, and then you'll do whatever you can to survive. I think S!K has found themselves in their own survival situation, and the are doing whatever they can to survive, ethics be damned. I personally HOPE they can pull this out of the sh***er, because while their knives are not really anything special, they aren't bad. I think there is a sh**-TON riding on the next few months. I don't have high hopes for them at this point, though. And if I start seeing S!K product at Blade HQ before I get my final knife, then Blade HQ has engaged in bad business as well (according to Guy's own words in the video).

Just putting this here to gain some perspective on what Survive has actually accomplished, in their own words, as far as completing their old outstanding orders.

The top quote is from Ellie and was made on August 2nd, 2018. She says that they've completed ALL orders prior to 2015 and are 80% finished with the 2015 pre-orders.

Then we fast forward almost exactly three years and we see they only completed 15% more of those 2015 orders.

So in the first three years they fulfilled 80% of the 2015 orders and then took three more years and only managed to fulfill 5% of those orders per year.

I think that says more about their commitment, or lack thereof, to fulfilling backorders than anything else.

Well... in their defense... they did buy an old building and fix it up, because fine outstanding members of their community, yada, yada, yada in that amount of time. There's only so much time in a day, and you have to have your priorities in the right place. Apparently the priorities of this KNIFE company did NOT include MAKING KNIVES!

 

[danbot]

Well... in their defense... they did buy an old building and fix it up, because fine outstanding members of their community, yada, yada, yada in that amount of time.

Was this penance for burning down that historic hotel they bought?

 

[unwisefool]

Words from the guy who's here and who wrote a seventeen page dissertation in their defense.

I also love how you then deleted that post because I think even you realize what you'd done.

"I think they are genuine and not bad people at all."

He says, about bums who are still hanging onto his money.

Hahaha I didn't realize he had deleted it. Good thing a bunch of us quoted it so it's there to stay