Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

Statistically certainly not relevant, but I can compare directly. While my first, like all others I own, is flawless, the second has non-symmetrical plunge lines. Yes, you have to look hard…. The sheath was a bit tight, I adjusted the screws a little, also not perfect because now it rattles a bit, but nothing to worry about when using it.

Every serious industrial production knows its approximate scrap figures, I would not hold selling seconds in advance against them…

And therein lies the flaw with your attempt at defending S?K. The logic just doesn't add up. Or, better yet, here's a question: do you feel that Survive? Knives is a "serious industrial production" or that Guy would even have the business acumen to know what his "approximate scrap figures" are, given the history of poor production, inability to work to a schedule, or inability to execute....well, anything in a fashion approaching the same universe as "timely"?

This is a groundless defense, especially when it was proven countless times that they were selling knives as seconds before the actual knives had been produced. Secondly, if they DID have knives that were actual "Seconds", why wouldn't you approach the original buyer and ask if he'd be good with the knife, along with a small refunded discount for th....ohhhhhhhh....right. They were about getting peoples' money and not producing anything for years and years. They wouldn't do that, because they would have to refund money they'd already spent, can't have that. Right. Sorry, leading question, I retract the question, Your Honor. LOL

Seriously, I bet that a case could be made that those people who are still waiting for old models years later, are probably people who had their knives sold out from under them to someone else as a "Second".

I don't know how people can defend these guys at this point in time. If you've been following them for as long as most of us have, you'd know they're scumbags.
 
The time you have to wait has nothing to do with my argument..
Why, because your "argument" is in fact no argument at all?

Funding past unfulfilled orders with current sales is textbook definition of a Ponzi scheme, and a big part of why S?K no longer is allowed on Blade Forums.

Continue to shill if you want, but I doubt it will convince anyone here.
 
It’s “cringy with a pious hall monitor tone” to ask people to stop hurling personal insults at the guy? Interesting. I guess you expected this thread to be an echo-chamber. Also: I wouldn’t play fast and loose with the word “shill”. 34 out of 36 of your posts since like spring of 2018 have been an anti-“survive” crusade. My guess is, someone here has an alternate account they’re using for this topic. :)

Hmmm...a dude in here defending an admitted shill, because it's me who's addressing him. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

Defending a shill account....hmmmm. maybe mlmcasual mlmcasual isn't the one with an alternate account. :)
 
The time you have to wait has nothing to do with my argument..
The fact that people get their "2nds" years and years before other people get their "1st", is well, the pudding.

And no, I haven't compared a second to a first, and nor do I ever intend to do so. I am not, nor is anyone I know, stupid enough to give these scammers a cent, now knowing that they are rip off artists. I had an original 7/7 back when they were still in Gettysburg. It had a blunt tip from the "factory". Sold as a first. Guy fixed it. The knife was nothing special enough for me to keep after that. Moved it along.
 
There have been multiple reports (perhaps even in this thread) where people get their 2nd and can't find any issues at all.

Sure, that's not a direct comparison, but a "2nd" is sold as a flawed item. Kind of weird that multiple people recieve a "flawed" knife without flaws.
I don't think you're wrong here. One thing I noticed when looking around for Survive knives is that the vast majority of their factory 2cds appeared to have no discernable flaws according to the sellers.

If you're familiar with Arc'Teryx clothing and gear they've had a lot of factory 2cds (not so much recently).

Most of the time you would never find the flaw with Arc'Teryx stuff unless it's pointed out to you. Part of me thinks that's clever marketing where Arc'Teryx can get more gear out into the hands of users with products that sometimes have hundreds of dollars knocked off the sticker price. People who can't exactly afford high end kit buy the stuff and their products get more exposure. That's also Outdoor Research's reasoning for 50% off military/LEO on some products. The marketing value outweighs the discount.

In Survives case the factory 2cds from the company seem to be $20 or $30 cheaper (unless it was more significant before). Not really huge savings.
 
Hmmm...a dude in here defending an admitted shill, because it's me who's addressing him. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

Defending a shill account....hmmmm. maybe mlmcasual mlmcasual isn't the one with an alternate account. :)
Are you accusing me of defending a ”shill” simply because the personal insults getting thrown around are clearly headed in the direction of said “shill”? Just asking for a little bit of professionalism, my guy. And yes, if 99% of someone’s comments on the forum swirl around one specific topic (this one), it’s a good indicator of an alternate for someone keeping their finger on the pulse that switches over to get edgy or pump the numbers up.
 
Statistically certainly not relevant, but I can compare directly. While my first, like all others I own, is flawless, the second has non-symmetrical plunge lines. Yes, you have to look hard…. The sheath was a bit tight, I adjusted the screws a little, also not perfect because now it rattles a bit, but nothing to worry about when using it.

Every serious industrial production knows its approximate scrap figures, I would not hold selling seconds in advance against them…
You know them as an estimated percentage of total product, but even knowing that you'd have to be much more precise to know which ones will still be saleable at all and the smaller number of total units you produce the more inaccurate your estimates would become. Maybe I'm wildly wrong, but I sincerely doubt that Survive is big enough to predict their rate of flawed, but saleable blades with the kind of accuracy they would need to justify pre-selling seconds.

Then consider it from a pure PR standpoint. Survive is extremely aware of the reputation issues they have, that's entirely clear throughout their history here and in the recent videos they've posted. Why on Earth would you add fuel to the fire by pre-selling seconds, even if you could predict them with that level of accuracy? It makes you look terrible, and if you're relatively solvent there's no reason to do so, you can just sell them quickly once they're assembled and in hand.

Taking all that into account and it sure seems like pre-orders for seconds are an important enough income stream for them to risk the image issue which, in my mind, places it well within the realm of possibility that they'd sell off the occasional first to essentially double dip and sell the same knife twice.
 
The fact that people get their "2nds" years and years before other people get their "1st", is well, the pudding.
That's a great point. IMO Survive should offer up any factory 2cd to someone waiting on a knife at a discounted price first if it fits the order someone is waiting on.
 
Oh yes, the old call someone a liar then don't put your money where your mouth is trick. Good stuff.
Careful shill, you are no doubt already on the radar of Boru13 Boru13

I do yes. You've been posting on average 7 posts a day for almost 10 years, for you to tell me to post less (or not at all) was a real moment of reflection for me.
Care to elaborate WTF that is supposed to mean?

Could be word got out that they're not seconds-
Oh yeah? Guess who put that word out. Years before you stumbled along sport.
 
And therein lies the flaw with your attempt at defending S?K. The logic just doesn't add up. Or, better yet, here's a question: do you feel that Survive? Knives is a "serious industrial production" or that Guy would even have the business acumen to know what his "approximate scrap figures" are, given the history of poor production, inability to work to a schedule, or inability to execute....well, anything in a fashion approaching the same universe as "timely"?

This is a groundless defense, especially when it was proven countless times that they were selling knives as seconds before the actual knives had been produced. Secondly, if they DID have knives that were actual "Seconds", why wouldn't you approach the original buyer and ask if he'd be good with the knife, along with a small refunded discount for th....ohhhhhhhh....right. They were about getting peoples' money and not producing anything for years and years. They wouldn't do that, because they would have to refund money they'd already spent, can't have that. Right. Sorry, leading question, I retract the question, Your Honor. LOL

Seriously, I bet that a case could be made that those people who are still waiting for old models years later, are probably people who had their knives sold out from under them to someone else as a "Second".

I don't know how people can defend these guys at this point in time. If you've been following them for as long as most of us have, you'd know they're scumbags.
I think he knows that not every knife will be perfect, from my standpoint he is doing a good job deciding which are not. Why I should defend them is beyond me, I am just stating my personal experience. And I am not really emotional about the topic.
 
Why, because your "argument" is in fact no argument at all?

Funding past unfulfilled orders with current sales is textbook definition of a Ponzi scheme, and a big part of why S?K no longer is allowed on Blade Forums.

Continue to shill if you want, but I doubt it will convince anyone here.

Yep. The very fact that an exceptionally small company, comprised of like, four or five people* would take preorders and full payments up front for new models that Guy was "dreaming up" while he had hundreds or even thousands of orders unfilled from a previous run, or even runs is concrete proof of this. "Oh yeah!!!! How so???" Really? So, if you knew that you still owed hundreds of people a knife, but were taking on money (and in most cases, starting actual work) for new knives instead of working on existing preorders, that'd be ok? No, it's trash, which is one major reason they got bounced. Even worse, it was proven that they had outstanding orders for old knives (which by S?K's own admittance are made in batches) still on the books when they started shipping knives from the following run. That's like going to a restaurant and watching a table who got sat about twenty minutes after you did, get their order taken first, and then their food first, before your drinks have even arrived. No one in their right mind would be cool with that.

And again, it's not like we're making any of this up. It's all right there in their own subsection. You can go look it up at your leisure, threads started by people asking where their knife is at, because they're seeing posts from people who got a new "Next Model After Theirs" knife. Posts to the same.

These guys are hot trash, and it's good that they're gone and their ability to obtain new orders has been severely limited.




* They most likely don't have any more working for them these days either.
 
I think he knows that not every knife will be perfect, from my standpoint he is doing a good job deciding which are not. Why I should defend them is beyond me, I am just stating my personal experience. And I am not really emotional about the topic.

You think? How so? Do you know him? Again, your questions and suggestions are all firmly debunked by actual facts surrounding this company, its products, and the past statements and performance of its owners.
 
Are you accusing me of defending a ”shill” simply because the personal insults getting thrown around are clearly headed in the direction of said “shill”? Just asking for a little bit of professionalism, my guy. And yes, if 99% of someone’s comments on the forum swirl around one specific topic (this one), it’s a good indicator of an alternate for someone keeping their finger on the pulse that switches over to get edgy or pump the numbers up.

Sorry Kenneth, a guy with your username demanding "professionalism" from others is...well, it's comical, really. :)
 
Are you accusing me of defending a ”shill” simply because the personal insults getting thrown around are clearly headed in the direction of said “shill”? Just asking for a little bit of professionalism, my guy. And yes, if 99% of someone’s comments on the forum swirl around one specific topic (this one), it’s a good indicator of an alternate for someone keeping their finger on the pulse that switches over to get edgy or pump the numbers up.
"Professionalism"....In a Survive! thread!?! 🤣🤣🤣
 
Sorry Kenneth, a guy with your username demanding "professionalism" from others is...well, it's comical, really. :)
Forrest: What about my username is “unprofessional”? Care to explain? Probably not, since it isn’t… unless you’re trying to tell us all something about it bothering you. I know I seem to have disturbed your daily fix of schadenfreude, but I’m glad you find the humor in it all.

Btw, I thought you said you weren’t “doing this” here? Changed your mind?
 
I think he knows that not every knife will be perfect, from my standpoint he is doing a good job deciding which are not. Why I should defend them is beyond me, I am just stating my personal experience. And I am not really emotional about the topic.
Oh, in my previous post I almost forgot to bring up unconscious bias, which is a very, very strong reason not to pre-sell seconds.

Let's assume Guy is on the up and up as far as second are concerned for just one hypothetical. He knows that he's presold X number of seconds while he's examining the knives to determine if they're suitable to be shipped out as firsts. That creates pressure, which it's almost impossible not to respond to either intentionally or unintentionally, so maybe he scrutinize a little harder on this batch, raises his standards a little, because in the back of his mind he KNOWS that he's promised people seconds. Heck, he can probably justify it as a service to his customers that paid full price, he's just insuring the highest quality!

That's a huge reason not to create that pressure in the first place.
 
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