Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

[RAZZORBACK]

Would you happen to have pictures of your "1st" and "2nd" to show a comparison?

They are hundreds of miles away from me right now, but yeah, I can do that when I get near them..

 

[Quiet]

I think we can agree on the fact that seconds do not have to be flawless, right? Firsts I have seen have been so far.

My point was that S?K sells products that are clearly not flawless. As well, it was proven multiple times that they would sell "seconds" before any of the knives had even been made yet. Many people who did receive those "seconds" reported not seeing any issues with them whatsoever. I still remember Ellie addressing these posts with some pathetic schpiel about how, well you see, Guy is just such a perfectionist, just such a details guy, that even if YOOOUUUU can't spot the flaws, rest assured, Professor Perfectionist Guy can, which is why they were marked "seconds", and it entirely doesn't have anything to do with the fact they have now sold that knife twice. Any other questions? Great, please get back to praising us, and telling us how happy you are to wait for another three years for your knife, while posting constant compliments about how great Guy and I are, thanks!

 

[Quiet]

A AbjectTestament
I believe you said that you’ve read this entire thread… here’s some more reading if you’re interested.

Details why the SURVIVE! forum was closed among other things.

Survive knives forum should be closed

Kevin, Survive! Knives represent this forum negatively in several ways. When new people come to bladeforums and search through our manufacturer list, they see survive! knives and are unaware of all the shenanigans the company has pulled through the years. They have customers waiting for...

www.bladeforums.com

You know, reading back through that thread, and taking a quick scan through some of those other threads that were linked, it never fails to impress me the overwhelming amount of tolerance, goodwill, and patience these scum left burning in their wake. Even after all their sins came to light, all their bad, fraudulent business practices, all of it; there were still tons of people who would comment about them in an almost apologetic tone, along with the catch-all "We all still really, really want to see you guys succeed!!! Come ooooonnnnn, guuuuuyyysss!!!" Just blows my mind.

Countless companies today would absolutely commit wholesale murder to have just a fraction of that level of devotion from a staunch legion of diehard fanboys defending against any complaint or even the slightest whiff of criticism that this company had, circa 2016, 2017.

 

[RAZZORBACK]

My point was that S?K sells products that are clearly not flawless. As well, it was proven multiple times that they would sell "seconds" before any of the knives had even been made yet. Many people who did receive those "seconds" reported not seeing any issues with them whatsoever. I still remember Ellie addressing these posts with some pathetic schpiel about how, well you see, Guy is just such a perfectionist, just such a details guy, that even if YOOOUUUU can't spot the flaws, rest assured, Professor Perfectionist Guy can, which is why they were marked "seconds", and it entirely doesn't have anything to do with the fact they have now sold that knife twice. Any other questions? Great, please get back to praising us, and telling us how happy you are to wait for another three years for your knife, while posting constant compliments about how great Guy and I are, thanks!

I have never commented on anything but my own experiece with them and their knives and I will keep it like that. Enough guys here doing otherwise.

 

[Quiet]

I have never commented on anything but my own experiece with them and their knives and I will keep it like that. Enough guys here doing otherwise.

I'll take your attempted inference in stride, and remind you that many of us ARE speaking from personal experience with S?K and their knives.

 

[danbot]

I have never commented on anything but my own experiece with them and their knives and I will keep it like that. Enough guys here doing otherwise.

You don't need to have personal experiences with a company to see their shady business practices and/or incompetence and call attention to it.

 

[Rob_Angerer]

@marrenmiller said he did get the Delta 3V HT. When did they stop doing that HT?

Not certain of the actual date they stopped doing Delta heat treat, but this Youtube video was posted by Survive on Youtube on June 19, 2021:

"Moving Away From The Delta Heat Treat 6/12/21"​

For Nathan Carother's take (clearly stated, no doubletalk), see post #12 in this thread (to be clear, Delta3V protocol research was driven by Nathan, with participation from Guy and Dan Keffeler):

Delta 3v Recipe exclusive or shared?

Hey guys, I thought I remember something about Nathan working with someone(s) to develop the delta 3V heat treat. I wasn't sure whether this was even true or who it might have been? thanks for any input in advance too!

www.bladeforums.com

 

[danbot]

Not certain of the actual date they stopped doing Delta heat treat, but this Youtube video was posted by Survive on Youtube on June 19, 2021:

"Moving Away From The Delta Heat Treat 6/12/21"​

For Nathan Carother's take (clearly stated, no doubletalk), see post #12 in this thread:

Delta 3v Recipe exclusive or shared?

Hey guys, I thought I remember something about Nathan working with someone(s) to develop the delta 3V heat treat. I wasn't sure whether this was even true or who it might have been? thanks for any input in advance too!

www.bladeforums.com

Cool, thanks for the link!

 

[AbjectTestament]

And so you understand that this company has been operating like this for years, has outstanding orders from six years ago that they still haven't fulfilled

Yup. I took a chance ordering from them. If I would have got boned I'd have one person to blame. Am I saying anyone here should go out and buy from them? Nope.

, has operated illegally in regards to refunds,

Have they? Illegally? And no one has taken them to court or involved law enforcement against them in 8 years? Looking at Idaho there have been lawsuits where people have sued for beer ruining their lives, a grown man suing his parents for being indifferent to his problems, and someone suing Apple for their porn addiction.

There are no shortages of "we don't get paid until you get paid" lawyers. Seems like a good opportunity for a class-action lawsuit.

yet you decided that your experience with them trumped all that and that it was worth chiming in to defend them and that the blowback you've gotten is somehow unfair, or too mean, or unjustified?

Lots of strawmen here.
First please point out where I'm defending Survives' previous behavior.
Second please point out where I'm suggesting the "blowback" is unfair, too mean, or unjustified.

A AbjectTestament
I believe you said that you’ve read this entire thread… here’s some more reading if you’re interested.

Details why the SURVIVE! forum was closed among other things.

Survive knives forum should be closed

Kevin, Survive! Knives represent this forum negatively in several ways. When new people come to bladeforums and search through our manufacturer list, they see survive! knives and are unaware of all the shenanigans the company has pulled through the years. They have customers waiting for...

www.bladeforums.com

Thanks Boru13. There's no arguing or debating why they deserved to be punted. It's also clear you (collectively) left them an opportunity to come back and speak their piece by leaving their user accounts active.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Yup. I took a chance ordering from them. If I would have got boned I'd have one person to blame. Am I saying anyone here should go out and buy from them? Nope.


Have they? Illegally? And no one has taken them to court or involved law enforcement against them in 8 years? Looking at Idaho there have been lawsuits where people have sued for beer ruining their lives, a grown man suing his parents for being indifferent to his problems, and someone suing Apple for their porn addiction.

There are no shortages of "we don't get paid until you get paid" lawyers. Seems like a good opportunity for a class-action lawsuit.


Lots of strawmen here.
First please point out where I'm defending Survives' previous behavior.
Second please point out where I'm suggesting the "blowback" is unfair, too mean, or unjustified.


Thanks Boru13. There's no arguing or debating why they deserved to be punted. It's also clear you (collectively) left them an opportunity to come back and speak their piece by leaving their user accounts active.

If you had actually read the thread, as you claimed to, you would see where I had laid out very clearly how they're failing to comply with the 30 Day Rule established by the FTC.

Here's you, admitting that you joined the forum to defend them. You apparently have a much shorter memory than I do, but that's okay, the quote function works fine.

Hi EngrSorenson, I can't be any more straight here than I already am.

I did join for one purpose*. I came across this thread a while ago and decided to come back and pass on my experience with Survive after having a good experience. In my first post, I pointed out I was primarily posting for people waiting on their blades or considering new orders. My experience with their shipping time might be good news to someone waiting, or might cause them to go get a refund. Good to go either way.

There are almost 1500 posts here, the vast majority of them condemning Survive. I think BladeForums can handle a few posts from me talking about my experience.

*I'm now checking out some of the other areas, including the links on Heat treatment and metallurgy that were provided (genuine thanks for those). Some pretty cool stuff here. KenOnion's post from 2004 on Mid-Tech knives was really informative. I like the information about edge retention, corrosion resistance, sharpening as well. I might be here for a while if I can avoid the banhammer.

As for a show and tell, sure. This actually just landed today. I don't love the G10 handle as much as I thought I would but it's growing on me. I like the tumbled finished even though it's still a bit shiny for my liking. Their older tumbled stuff seems to have a darker more aggressive look.
What am I looking at for heat treatment on this?
Pic 1
Pic 2

I can also quote you saying that the reactions are McCarthyist and paranoid. Might want to get your short term memory checked, since those quotes are right here in this thread.

Claiming my arguments are strawmen is, somewhat ironically, an actual strawman.

 

[mlmcasual]

Have they? Illegally? And no one has taken them to court or involved law enforcement against them in 8 years? Looking at Idaho there have been lawsuits where people have sued for beer ruining their lives, a grown man suing his parents for being indifferent to his problems, and someone suing Apple for their porn addiction.

That means absolutely nothing. US hasn't exactly been a lawful society these past couple of years. SK was already complained about to the state AG by numerous people to no avail... as there are much bigger fish to fry and limited manpower. Which is the point of this kind of social media pushback. If we can't fix the sinkhole in the road, we darn well will put up warning flashers to everyone else driving down the road.

BTW, to those new guys posting.. "It seems like they are/wanting to make a turnaround" ... DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!"....... SK has come out a few years ago at least once on record stating THEY (SK) would NOT be taking on any more paid-up-front "pre orders" until they finished their backlog. THAT was THIER (SK!s) words!!!! Not ours. So Ok.... Not only did they NOT hold true to that, they did the opposite and have increased their "pre-orders" even very Recently. So there is ZERO double, Zero question they are NOT "Turning things around"... not as along as they still have a backog and are adding more Preorders.

It doesn't get any simpler than that... SK addressed their credibility by stating the would not take new Preorders until their backlog was finished. They DID the opposite.. they are still DOING (present tense) the opposite. So demonstrably proven ... they are NOT "turning things around".. by their own rules.

 

[AbjectTestament]

If you had actually read the thread, as you claimed to, you would see where I had laid out very clearly how they're failing to comply with the 30 Day Rule established by the FTC.

I saw people talking about that, and the BBB. What legal sanctions have been brought against them?

the FTC pursues vigorous and effective law enforcement;

It certainly sounds like a situation for the FTC to be involved, why has no one has pursued this in 6 years with vigorous and effective law enforcement?

Here's you, admitting that you joined the forum to defend them. You apparently have a much shorter memory than I do, but that's okay, the quote function works fine.

You might have missed this.

I'm very cognizant of the issues people have had with Survive. They're legitimate issues, full stop.

I'm not suggesting any sort of absolution for their past history or issues, just giving an account of a recent order.

I can also quote you saying that the reactions are McCarthyist and paranoid.

I think they 100% are. Not just reactions to me specifically, others in this thread, and some other post histories I took a quick look at.

That means absolutely nothing.

Oh.

US hasn't exactly been a lawful society these past couple of years. SK was already complained about to the state AG by numerous people to no avail... as there are much bigger fish to fry and limited manpower. Which is the point of this kind of social media pushback. If we can't fix the sinkhole in the road, we darn well will put up warning flashers to everyone else driving down the road.

People sue for literally anything and everything in the US. Sorry, I'm not buying the bigger fish excuse. Why aren't people suing Survive? I have no idea. People have sued for a hell of a lot less. If people want their refund, plus interest, plus psychological damages, I promise there's a lawyer ready to take your case.

SK has come out a few years ago at least once on record stating THEY (SK) would NOT be taking on any more paid-up-front "pre orders" until they finished their backlog. THAT was THIER (SK!s) words!!!! Not ours. So Ok.... Not only did they NOT hold true to that, they did the opposite and have increased their "pre-orders" even very Recently. So there is ZERO double, Zero question they are NOT "Turning things around"... not as along as they still have a backog and are adding more Preorders.

That's fair dude. Can't argue with your logic you're right.

I don't think disabling comments on social media platforms is enough to break contact with their history. They're going to need a serious hook to entice new buyers while quieting the disenfranchised. Survive won't survive on their loyal following.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I think they 100% are. Not just reactions to me specifically, others in this thread, and some other post histories I took a quick look at.

Wait, so are you lying now when you say they are, or were you lying earlier when you said

Second please point out where I'm suggesting the "blowback" is unfair, too mean, or unjustified.

Your story seems to shift to whatever is convenient for you at the moment, so I'd like to start nailing things down.

 

[AbjectTestament]

Wait, so are you lying now when you say they are, or were you lying earlier when you said

Your story seems to shift to whatever is convenient for you at the moment, so I'd like to start nailing things down.

You're really grasping here. Where have I suggested comments towards me are unfair, too mean, or unjustified(with a view to being upset about being accused of whatever)? Is it me pointing out the "you're a shill, you're a plant! paranoia?". Hardly upset about that lol

You're more than welcomed to say whatever you want to or about me.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

You're really grasping here. Where have I suggested comments towards me are unfair, too mean, or unjustified(with a view to being upset about being accused of whatever)? Is it me pointing out the "you're a shill, you're a plant! paranoia?". Hardly upset about that lol

You're more than welcomed to say whatever you want to or about me.

So you think they're paranoid and McCarthyist, but not unfair or mean? I don't think I'm the one reaching, here.

 

[scarysamcary]

dude is obviously a troll

If he had any actual interest in being here, he would have STFU by now and moved on to actual knife discussions. Instead he continues to ask questions that have already been answered and try to get as much attention as possible.

 

[AbjectTestament]

dude is obviously a troll

If he had any actual interest in being here, he would have STFU by now and moved on to actual knife discussions. Instead he continues to ask questions that have already been answered and try to get as much attention as possible.

There's a lot of very specific forums I can't exactly jump into. What traditional knife am I carrying today? None, just a SOG pent arc. What's my cold steel EDC today? None. Posting for the sake of posting is disingenuous. I'm looking around soaking up the ambiance, relax.

 

[danbot]

A AbjectTestament
Haha! I know where you're coming from if you're not a "trolling shill".
You had a good experience with SK and that's really all you're saying. That's all well and good, but understand that there has been a lot of negative history on this forum from this company and passions can run high. You should see some of the fanboy pile-ons in the before times when someone would post negative shit in the Survive! subforum!!!

 

[craytab]

dude is obviously a troll

If he had any actual interest in being here, he would have STFU by now and moved on to actual knife discussions. Instead he continues to ask questions that have already been answered and try to get as much attention as possible.

Yup. Claims to have read the threads on survive but ignored all the answers already given to his questions. Me think he isn't here to ask questions for which he needs answers. Just here to stir the pot.

 

[craytab]

That means absolutely nothing.

Exactly. Basic trolls make basic troll arguments. "Well, other companies have been sued for X so since survive hasn't been sued for Y it means they aren't that bad."

Get outta here with that noise.

Seriously folks, stop feeding him. He is doing just enough to troll but not enough to get banned. Ignore time, unless he wants to come to W&C and we can have some real fun....