Tactical Hawk Comparison Old vs New

daniel17319 said:
i carried a Vietnam hawk in Iraq it was light and i could punch out a window or a make quick work on a cabinet. For breaching we used explosives or a foot never found a door i could not kick open of course im 6'4 power lifter and weigh 260. or we would bring up the shotgun, i was the breaching tool.
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Did you ever have one of your legs go trough a door?, I have lost more than a few pairs of pants that way.

We do on occasion use framed explosives for special obstacles, and the mossberg 500 shot gun goes to work on some of the more stubborn doors hinges and locks.

But sometimes being quiet saves you a lot of trouble. That's when prying open or cutting trough whit a hawk comes in to play. And if for some reason you find some one waiting on the other side your breaching tool becomes a ready weapon. :)
 
does anyone know someone who might be able to help me produce my hammer? I have to admit, it is a bit outside of my skill level at this time to produce one.
 
http://www.hortonknivesusa.com/

Comes to mind as a possible maker for that hammer project.
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Jeremy could make one hella nice tool.

Did you ever have one of your legs go trough a door?, I have lost more than a few pairs of pants that way.
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Et, how do you lost your pants that way?

On the door kicking scene from Mercop:

As I already mentioned, the most common way for a patrol officer to gain access to a residence during an emergency is by kicking a door in. Most of the time this does little damage to the door but devastates the frame of the door. Think of the time and money you could save the property owner by using the tomahawk and measured response to pop the door open.

Ask the average patrol officer what he used to break a window at the last motor vehicle accident he responded to and he will most likely say that it was his expandable baton. Not only is the baton engineered and carried to be used as a defensive weapon against people, there is no training that I am aware of where they advise that it be used for an entry tool. It can be very frustrating to beat on a window with your baton while people are trapped inside with the distant sound of rescue vehicles sounding miles away.

By now most officers have received training in reference to responding to an active shooter scenario. Often these incidents take place in schools and other government buildings. These structures usually have heavy exterior and interior doors with windows reinforced with chicken wire. We know from experience that these incidents happen fast. The best-trained, highly motivated officer, carrying the best weapons will be of no use to stop the carnage if he cannot get into the structure.

The tactical tomahawk should be issued and labeled a breaching tool along with other rescue equipment such as the AED*, first aid kit, and fire extinguisher. Being able to pierce, pry, pull, and push your way into where victims lay may mean the difference between life and death.

AED =Automated External Defibrillators
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JayGoliath said:
Et, how do you lost your pants that way?
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They use very cheap wood down here, even if you kick next to the frame, sometimes your leg goes straight through the door, and the wood splinters sometimes tear up the fabric of the pants you are wearing. :o
 
Edwood7 said:
Did you ever have one of your legs go trough a door?, I have lost more than a few pairs of pants that way.

We do on occasion use framed explosives for special obstacles, and the mossberg 500 shot gun goes to work on some of the more stubborn doors hinges and locks.

But sometimes being quiet saves you a lot of trouble. That's when prying open or cutting trough whit a hawk comes in to play. And if for some reason you find some one waiting on the other side your breaching tool becomes a ready weapon. :)
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I've never done it for real, but don't forget to check and see if the door is unlocked first! :p
 
Bare Rib said:
Sorry it took me so long to get this up but its been a busy week for me.
Anyways here is an initial design/concept for my Tac Hammer.
-Overall length is 24"/61cm
-Full .25"/6.35mm thick tang
-The head has 4 pyramid shaped points coming off of it. This is something that medieval warhammers had as well the purpose being that they focus the impact into those points generating an greater force at those points.
-The back spike is sharped on the underside the curve will hep in cutting cord, rope, and webbing, & for pull cuts (pierce wall and tilt handle up and pull.)
-The hook at the bottom of the hammer end can be hooking and binding a combatant, dragging, & so forth. The undercut of the hook also will aid in putting more weight forward on the hammer's striking head.
-Handle material would wither be Micarta or G10. The scallops on the handle material would also be on the tang of the hammer providing two good secure gripping points.
-The bottom of the handle has a prybar end to further it's possible functionality in entry situations.
Tac_Hammer.jpg

Let me know what you guys think.
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I would buy something like that....
 
I like the hammer, thats pretty trick looking.


A few things I was thinking of though:

A: Under the hammer that looks to be a very sharp edge, which I assume is a finger retention area or some such. I would think that if your hammer rebounded on you (and I've used a breaching hammer, and if the door is heavily reinforced it'll bounce right back at ya) it could cut your hand, or at least hurt. I would round t off vertically or make it very soft.
B: Same kind of concern with the pry-bar end. That a sharp pointy end that the bad-guy can shove back into you, or that you have to worry about during use. I think there is a reason you don't see ends like those on things intended to be WEAPONS, just tools. If you really feel the need to put a pry-end on there, make it shorter and blunter where it's not going to hit the arm/wrist when you swing it.
 
Toxie said:
I like the hammer, thats pretty trick looking.


A few things I was thinking of though:

A: Under the hammer that looks to be a very sharp edge, which I assume is a finger retention area or some such. I would think that if your hammer rebounded on you (and I've used a breaching hammer, and if the door is heavily reinforced it'll bounce right back at ya) it could cut your hand, or at least hurt. I would round t off vertically or make it very soft.
B: Same kind of concern with the pry-bar end. That a sharp pointy end that the bad-guy can shove back into you, or that you have to worry about during use. I think there is a reason you don't see ends like those on things intended to be WEAPONS, just tools. If you really feel the need to put a pry-end on there, make it shorter and blunter where it's not going to hit the arm/wrist when you swing it.
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Thanks for the input. the hook portion does come off looking sharper than it would be. I would worry about shorting & Dulling the prybar end as it could cut down on it's effectiveness as a tool. I don't intend for it to be any more sharp & pointy than your average prybar. Plus as is opens up the use to do pommel strikes with it.
 
Edwood7 said:
Well it is expensive, but a spent almost the same amount on my handgun, I depend on these things. I what to know I'm getting the best when my life. is going to depend on the weapons a carry.

The RMJ hawks are grate but they are not built to be used exclusively as a fighting axe, its a breaching combat axe.
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Only the Shrike models (large and small) are designed for breaching. The Talon, Kestrel, and Jenny Wrens are made for fighting, plus have good edge geometries for working with wood in a wilderness environment. The Winkler hawks are beautiful but, having put some RMJ hawks through some pretty serious tests, for that kind of money I'd have a Shrike for breaching and fighting when working in an urban environment and a Kestrel for fighting and chopping when in a wilderness environment. Actually since I already have a shrike I suppose I'd get a Kestrel and a Jenny Wren :)
 
Thanks for the input. the hook portion does come off looking sharper than it would be. I would worry about shorting & Dulling the prybar end as it could cut down on it's effectiveness as a tool. I don't intend for it to be any more sharp & pointy than your average prybar. Plus as is opens up the use to do pommel strikes with it.
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I myself always subscribed to the notion that anything that is useful For many things isn't largely useful for any single thing. Decide what you want it to be and design it for that. If it's a breaching tool then fix the head (too small, would punch through the wood and the hook would get caught), add some weight and add to the handle. If it's a weapon, then make sure no part of it detracts too heavily from it's use as a weapon.

I suppose I look at the 'hawk and see a weapon that has several uses, but none of which detract from it's primary use as a weapon, while a halligan is a MUCH better tool, but a poor weapon. Sorry if I rambled on, and I really love the idea of a modernized warhammer. (I also loved American kami's sickles, a modern war bill is sweetness too).
 
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mistwalker said:
Only the Shrike models (large and small) are designed for breaching. The Talon, Kestrel, and Jenny Wrens are made for fighting, plus have good edge geometries for working with wood in a wilderness environment. The Winkler hawks are beautiful but, having put some RMJ hawks through some pretty serious tests, for that kind of money I'd have a Shrike for breaching and fighting when working in an urban environment and a Kestrel for fighting and chopping when in a wilderness environment. Actually since I already have a shrike I suppose I'd get a Kestrel and a Jenny Wren :)
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I have handled the Kestrel, a few of the guys a work whit have them. I really do see how good they perform as a breeching tool, but I really prefer the Winkler as a fighter. The options you have as far as grip placement on the Winkler Axes handle is just perfect for CQC situations where space is a big factor. I just don’t like the gap under the Kestrels head. And since a carry my axe on the left side of my vest I find that the spike on the Kestrel is a bit cumbersome as far as carrying it, I don’t doubt that it is plus weapons wise, but its just not for me.

The Winkler’s have a tapered tang that concentrates all of the weight to the head which is a very useful thing when striking at short distances.

I can’t say much about the Jenny Warren since I haven’t had a chance to play whit it. :o





I do like how easy they are to maneuver and they are bomb proof. But well, so are the Winkler’s, just get it in a rubberized handle and I think you will feel the same way.
 
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Enough with the arguments, edwood7 I was reading some of your responses is your main language spanish? Also where the hell can i buy a Winker knife?
 
Just be careful with the Winkler stuff. I've seen enough blades to know that, onc e you buy them, they are going to suck. . .









. . .the money right out of your wallet. Because you'll want this one, then that one, that one over there looks nice, too. . .;)
 
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