Take-Downs, Make sense?

Bailey Bradshaw said:
I started making take-downs because I was tired of seeing shrunken handle material create gaps. Prperly glued or not, there is no stopping shrinking ivory/stag/wood from making a knife a problem child. With a takedown, just a turn of the finial will eliminate those gaps. I don't like the idea of the knives being taken apart, but it sure makes fitting the parts easier. Takes a little longer to build, but any issues that may arise during construction and finishing can be taken care of with ease.

For the makers, a little tip from your Uncle Bail....on the final assembly, warm the parts and melt a little beeswax on them, put it together with the wax still soft and it is water tight internaly. No need to worry about rust or intrusion of blood or water from use.
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From the take down King, Bailey Bradshaw.
Thanks for the bit of wisdom on the bees wax.
 
Bailey Bradshaw said:
For the makers, a little tip from your Uncle Bail....on the final assembly, warm the parts and melt a little beeswax on them, put it together with the wax still soft and it is water tight internaly. No need to worry about rust or intrusion of blood or water from use.
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You mean I've got beeswax in this thing?? :p Sounds like a good tip. :thumbup:

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Roger
 
I agree that you pretty much have to bust your material up to remove a fixed-assembly handle.

It's probably pretty rare that anyone would desire to change handle material just for the sake of change or to achieve a different look, however I expect there's quite a few out there with shrunken handle material on fixed-assembly knives who wish it could be changed out easily. It's certainly not like shrunken handle material is rare.
And as both myself and Bailey have mentioned, many times just a slight turn of the take-down finial will fix a shrinkage problem. Again, I just don't see why the purchaser of an expensive safe queen would not welcome this feature let along all the others that have been mentioned.

And to Karl's point, all take-down hunters I have seen (at least those that anyone would consider using in the field) have VERY simplistic construction. Usually a one piece handle, guard and pins to hold the assembly in place. Even if fluid did seep in, to disassembly it, wipe it down, shoot it with WD-40 and re-assemble it is probably a 3 minute operation. What, about 10% of the time it takes to brake your shotgun/riffle down and clean.
 
If one of the benefits is ease of dis-assembly for cleaning , I would like to ask , how many here have a take down that actually gets used hard enuff to need to be disassembled to be cleaned ? The knives shown are gorgeous , but I highly doubt most of those posted thus far actually see the type of use where they will need to be disassebled.

I like the idea of being able to tighten up small gaps from natural materials moving.

Seems that most agree it is the wow factor that sets it apart from the pack. And the take downs do have the wow factor in spades. In my mind , for a using knife , you are taking a superior tool ( fixed blade ) and introducing more failure points. Yes ?

Taking apart one of the high end knives like thost that are posted in this thread , would that diminish the value ? Is the knife then still truly mint ? IE: could it still be called never used if it was disassembled by the owner ?
 
In addition to the above, I have heard makers state that they would almost as soon make a new knife as replace an existing handle on a fixed-assembly knife.
 
John T Wylie Jr said:
If one of the benefits is ease of dis-assembly for cleaning , I would like to ask , how many here have a take down that actually gets used hard enuff to need to be disassembled to be cleaned ? The knives shown are gorgeous , but I highly doubt most of those posted thus far actually see the type of use where they will need to be disassebled.

It seems this discussion has developed into addressing the positives/negatives of take-down safe queens and real-use hunters separately. Which is probably a good thing. I believe take-down hunters such as Karl creates for hard-use camp/skinning task are made to be taken down and cleaned. By the way, the tolerances on Karl's hunters are so precise that I expect very little fluid if any gets into them.

I like the idea of being able to tighten up small gaps from natural materials moving.

Seems that most agree it is the wow factor that sets it apart from the pack. And the take downs do have the wow factor in spades. In my mind , for a using knife , you are taking a superior tool ( fixed blade ) and introducing more failure points. Yes ?

Perhaps for the more complex knives (safe queens) which are frame constructed and the handle scales, pummel, ferrule, spacers, guard all disassemble. Probably 40 or better components in all may have more failure points. However I don't believe it's true for hunters like Karl and Bailey's that are made for hard use.

Taking apart one of the high end knives like thost that are posted in this thread , would that diminish the value ? Is the knife then still truly mint ? IE: could it still be called never used if it was disassembled by the owner ?

Not in my opinion, as they are made to be taken apart, as you said it's part of the allure for them.
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Bruce Bump said:
Thank You, I love take downs. I'm a sick man.
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I think this is a cool thread, but in my opinion, take-down components can be epoxied together forever and stay that way.

On the other hand, when I see one of Bruce Bump's minicannon-folders, my mind starts wandering way to the side of "way cool".
 
Kevin Jones said:
It's probably pretty rare that anyone would desire to change handle material just for the sake of change or to achieve a different look, however I expect there's quite a few out there with shrunken handle material on fixed-assembly knives who wish it could be changed out easily. It's certainly not like shrunken handle material is rare.
And as both myself and Bailey have mentioned, many times just a slight turn of the take-down finial will fix a shrinkage problem. Again, I just don't see why the purchaser of an expensive safe queen would not welcome this feature let along all the others that have been mentioned.
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I have more bad experiences than I would care to recall with handle shrinkage, but they have been pretty much exclusively confined to knives with scales (such as full tang or frame handle knives - with the scales shrinking to expose a sharp edge) or hidden tang knives with a mortise fit (with the seam coming apart and just looking bad). When I have stuck with my preferred handle treatment - a single, solid piece of material evacuated to accomodate the tang - whether it be wood, stag or ivory - handle shrinkage has been all but non-existent. The bi-annual Fisk-dunk in mineral oil is pretty much batting a thousand, notwithstanding that my environment strongly lends itself to material shrinkage.

The question wasn't whether this feature would be welcome - I certainly do welcome it, and as I have said, I own and have owned a number of take-down pieces and long before they were "popular" as well. The question was identifying the practical benefits. If the construction method addresses a problem I do not generally experience, then for me, it is not providing a practical benefit. As is the case here.

Similarly, while I don't get my knives all covered in blood and guts, I do have a couple fixed blades that I use regularly and find that neither cleaning nor refinishing have been a problem. And since I am satisfied that the maker's skill and methodology have renderd the tang cavity water tight, I have no need to clean the inside as there is simply no reason to do so. So again, for me, the disassembly option is not rendering a practical benefit.

That doesn't mean it's not worth having. A stunning damascus pattern doesn't render much of a practical benefit - but that doesn't stop me from admiring the skill it takes to create and paying a premium for the demonstration of that skill.

Roger
 
Take Downs are too cool. Don't know if the driver of this feeling is from puzzle building as a kid, whatever it is that makes "Transformers" cool, or just the instinctive need to take things apart.

The pieces posted on this thread are wicked. Bruce, yours are fantastic!!!

Sadly, no take downs in my collection yet. Kyle, first idea for our #100 project? Can you also include one of those super cool little dedicated tools?
 
I think they certainly CAN warrant a higher price. If the maker hand sands all components... vs. a surface ground finish, and especially if he makes a fancy take-down tool like Josh's knife that Kevin owns. Even if it's not a fancy tool, any take-down tool is more work than NO take down tool. :)
 
NickWheeler said:
I think they certainly CAN warrant a higher price. If the maker hand sands all components... vs. a surface ground finish, and especially if he makes a fancy take-down tool like Josh's knife that Kevin owns. Even if it's not a fancy tool, any take-down tool is more work than NO take down tool. :)
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I offer take down tools too at no extra cost. :D

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i didn't re-read all the posts, maybe this has been answered before: what exactly does "take down" mean? i have the impression that it refers - in this thread - to non-epoxied components that are held together by some kind of screws. but what about pinned, but not glued scales; or a tang extension that runs through the butt cap and is peened down? knives like that can be easily disassembled by the maker, maybe (or better not) by the not-so-skilled owner/user. are these considered take-down knives?

personally i'd prefer a sealed (i like bailey's bees wax method) construction than can be disassembled easily by the maker to repair the knife.

btw.: imagine, bruce used epoxy instead of screws for his knife-guns... :barf: i am a watchmaker, we use the term "chemical screwing" to obscure a technique that is not really state of the art in traditional mechanics.

cool stuff here! :thumbup:

best regards,
hans
 
I don't know about being the King.....But I sure ain't the Queen either:D

I appreciate the thought regardless.

Kevin,

PLEASE don't use WD-40 on your knives. WD-40 evaporates pretty quickly, and the propelents in the can are slightly corrosive. What you end up with is the WD-40 washing off the good oil, then evaporating and leaving the steel exposed with corrosive chemicals on it. It's not intended to be a rust preventative. The WD stands for "water dispersant", and it works great for that, but wipe it off and use a good oil.
 
Bailey Bradshaw said:
I don't know about being the King.....But I sure ain't the Queen either:D

I appreciate the thought regardless.

Kevin,

PLEASE don't use WD-40 on your knives. WD-40 evaporates pretty quickly, and the propelents in the can are slightly corrosive. What you end up with is the WD-40 washing off the good oil, then evaporating and leaving the steel exposed with corrosive chemicals on it. It's not intended to be a rust preventative. The WD stands for "water dispersant", and it works great for that, but wipe it off and use a good oil.
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Hi Bailey, I only use WD-40 as a cleaner/solvent for knives I use. After cleaning I wipe the WD-40 residue off and apply Camellia oil for protection.
I only use the Camellia oil on my collection knives. It's like mineral oil but I find it doesn't evaporate as fast and it doesn't attract dust/dirt as bad. It works good on handle material and blades.
 
Shrunken handle material is either caused by maker or users error.
A maker cant grind ivory so it gets hot and expect it not to complain later. Also you cant use mammoth that has just been found from the permafrost without it moving on you.
And collectors leaving ivory in a cars in Miami in the middle of summer should expect it to shrink.
 
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