Take-Downs, Make sense?

Michael J. Smith said:
Shrunken handle material is either caused by maker or users error.
A maker cant grind ivory so it gets hot and expect it not to complain later. Also you cant use mammoth that has just been found from the permafrost without it moving on you.
And collectors leaving ivory in a cars in Miami in the middle of summer should expect it to shrink.
Click to expand...

I respectfully DISAGREE. To say a natural handle material OF ANY KIND will only move by fault of the maker is a gross over simplification.
 
RogerP said:
I have more bad experiences than I would care to recall with handle shrinkage, but they have been pretty much exclusively confined to knives with scales (such as full tang or frame handle knives - with the scales shrinking to expose a sharp edge) or hidden tang knives with a mortise fit (with the seam coming apart and just looking bad). When I have stuck with my preferred handle treatment - a single, solid piece of material evacuated to accomodate the tang - whether it be wood, stag or ivory - handle shrinkage has been all but non-existent. The bi-annual Fisk-dunk in mineral oil is pretty much batting a thousand, notwithstanding that my environment strongly lends itself to material shrinkage.

The question wasn't whether this feature would be welcome - I certainly do welcome it, and as I have said, I own and have owned a number of take-down pieces and long before they were "popular" as well. The question was identifying the practical benefits. If the construction method addresses a problem I do not generally experience, then for me, it is not providing a practical benefit. As is the case here.

Similarly, while I don't get my knives all covered in blood and guts, I do have a couple fixed blades that I use regularly and find that neither cleaning nor refinishing have been a problem. And since I am satisfied that the maker's skill and methodology have renderd the tang cavity water tight, I have no need to clean the inside as there is simply no reason to do so. So again, for me, the disassembly option is not rendering a practical benefit.

That doesn't mean it's not worth having. A stunning damascus pattern doesn't render much of a practical benefit - but that doesn't stop me from admiring the skill it takes to create and paying a premium for the demonstration of that skill.

Roger
Click to expand...

While I had hoped to gain valuable insight from this thread and have tried to follow it carefully, I find myself totally agreeing with Roger's posts, especially his analysis above. Intuitively, I agree with Nick that take-downs "CAN warrant a higher price." But what I haven't seen addressed is does take-down construction add to the cost of knife construction?

Karl is the only maker that I recall who addresses this point. I hope I have understood him correctly that his price is the same for a fixed handle construction and for a take-down.

Let me present this scenario. I want to commission the build of a knife. I am not the biggest fan of stag and ivories, shrinkage being one reason. I usually prefer wood handles. I have not seen shrinkage as a particular concern, especially if stabilized.

Questions to makers: Would your price for the knife be the same irrespective of whether I had a preference for take-down construction or not? If I did not state a preference, are there any circumstances where you would recommend take-down construction for a wood handled knife? I think there may be a third question that I might be missing. When I commission the build of a knife, take-down construction is not something I think about. Should I?

I think answers to these questions would be valuable, at least for me.

Paul :confused::confused:
 
blad5 said:
While I had hoped to gain valuable insight from this thread and have tried to follow it carefully, I find myself totally agreeing with Roger's posts, especially his analysis above. Intuitively, I agree with Nick that take-downs "CAN warrant a higher price." But what I haven't seen addressed is does take-down construction add to the cost of knife construction?
Not at Andersen Forge.

Karl is the only maker that I recall who addresses this point. I hope I have understood him correctly that his price is the same for a fixed handle construction and for a take-down.
That is because right up to the final steps of my knife assembly, the construction remains the same whether it be take-down or not. Meaning that ALL components are drilled, fitted and pinned for my construction purposes. The only item that changes is the finial application.

Let me present this scenario. I want to commission the build of a knife. I am not the biggest fan of stag and ivories, shrinkage being one reason. I usually prefer wood handles. I have not seen shrinkage as a particular concern, especially if stabilized.

Questions to makers: Would your price for the knife be the same irrespective of whether I had a preference for take-down construction or not?
Yes.
If I did not state a preference, are there any circumstances where you would recommend take-down construction for a wood handled knife?
That would mostly depend on whether or not the fittings were to be of damascus, etched wrought iron or hot-blued mild steel, in which cases I would REQUIRE that the knife be of the take-down variety for my assembly strategy, and for future repair and maintenance.
I think there may be a third question that I might be missing. When I commission the build of a knife, take-down construction is not something I think about. Should I?
Just consider what your degree of participation, and future interaction with your knife maker, may require as regards the variables and complexity of the knife you order.

I think answers to these questions would be valuable, at least for me.

Paul :confused::confused:
Click to expand...

I hope this helps.
 
I didn't have time to read this whole thread so I'm not sure where it's gone. However I can offer one good reason for take down knives. Recently I received 5 of my knives back from a collector in Florida. Four folders and one fixed blade. My his own admission he completely neglected the knives and never cleaned them for four years. He sent them back asking what it would take to restore them. The folders will be much easier because they come apart. The fixed blade which has an ivory handle and is glued together has to be completely re-sanded and etched. If this were a take down knife it would not be a big job and there would be no risk in losing the handle. Instead I have to somehow get the handle off without damaging the carved ivory handle. Cleaning the knives isn't just about cleaning blood and guts. Though the current owner may be anal about keeping his knives clean the next owner in 30 years might not be. If the knife was to EVER rust any maker could take a take down knife apart and restore it 100 years from now.

We are building heirlooms that will be around for decades maybe even hundreds of years. I imaging the take down knives will be easier to maintain in the future generations.
 
Josh, I got two back from the same guy (actually through John Hanlon). One a screwed together folder, easy fix. The other a pinned together folder, luckily it wasn't in too bad of shape. I was told he had close to 100 custom knives, all in pretty bad shape, Lives on an island surrounded by saltwater... Guys, please take care of your knives :)
 
Don Hanson III said:
Josh, I got two back from the same guy (actually through John Hanlon). One a screwed together folder, easy fix. The other a pinned together folder, luckily it wasn't in too bad of shape. I was told he had close to 100 custom knives, all in pretty bad shape, Lives on an island surrounded by saltwater... Guys, please take care of your knives :)
Click to expand...

Or make sure they are take-downs. ;) :D
Sorry, I couldn't resist. :)
 
I think they are cool when they are all out efforts, with perfectly finished pieces. I like the little tools that we sometimes see, in particular when they have non standard screws (e.g., Tim Wright, the Rados higher on the thread). I like when it all fits in a custom case, etc. I could see a case with a knife, tool, cleaning kit, and replacement quillions or slabs, etc. That would be cool.

I think the concept has allowed makers to think outside the box (e.g., replacement quillions on the dagger higher up), and that's of course very cool.

I'm less convinced with frame handle take downs where the frame + slabs stays together - though I certainly understand that there are practical and esthetical reasons for that (screws are less discrete than pins).

Also, I have seen knives with way too many screws. I have also found some of the bowie frame handle take down where a big fat screw at the end was a distracting element. There's a very real esthetical challenge.

I think take downs are less forgiving than others because the inside needs to look as pretty as the outside. I'm quite certain that the majority of fixed construction knives have tangs that are in no way as pretty as those we see here.
 
I found another picture. This gun looks as clean inside as it does out. This is a lockback auto knife and muzzleloading .22 caliber. Jere Davidson engraving and Doug Turnbull carbona bluing.

100_1283_edited.jpg

100_1286_edited.jpg

100_1297_edited.jpg

100_1295_edited.jpg
 
Last edited:
Bruce Bump = holy moly!:eek:
 
That's being shot at my house! Next time Bruce I have to get a chance to shoot it. New rule. The owner of the land gets to shoot the coolest gun. Can't believe I missed that! Nice work.
 
Yes! Mavrick, the Push Dagger has all his screws timed, (lined up). That's the way...

John
Click to expand...

That was the first thing I noticed too....Bruce you have great eye for detail and you made a lovely push dagger.

Marcel
 
DAM Bruce....you are showing some AMAZING stuff here!

I was wondering if they get shot:D

Another reason I NEED to make it to one of Josh's hammer-ins!

Peter
 
Thanks Gentlemen,
Josh, we shot it about 25 times down in your firing range. It was a good test for the gun and my work. This year I wanted to shoot Liberty but arrived the next day after all the shooting stopped. I didnt even get to see the cannon go off.
 
Cool pic Bruce. That was the the first time I ever shot a knife. As for this thread I have found that take down's are good to have on your table I sold two at blade west and I am working on an order for three right now. I will show pic's when they are done.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top