Taking knives apart

kreole said:
My take is
1. People taking apart a knife and returning it is wrong.
2. People messing up their knife and expecting Spyderco to fix it free is wrong.
3. Spyderco thinking a knife is too complex to disassemble by the average person is wrong.
4. Spyderco defaulting to assuming the customer messed up a knife during disassembly is wrong.

Assuming this really is the big issue it's being seen as, seems like instead of going negative like this, the "shiny" way forward for the company is to make knives that are more easily serviceable. Make the knives easier to take down and put out disassembly videos yourselves. You'd be framing the message your own way then (with preambles about disassembly damage not being fixed for free and the whole process not being recommended).

I know the argument to this will be that the result will be more people disassembling, but I doubt that. There are already howtos and videos on disassembly, so if that's all it takes to get someone to do it, we're already there. Instead, the company is replacing those with the proper warnings, downsides, and methods. You're just improving the ability of those who were already going to service their knife while also warning of consequences.
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100% agree with kreole! Educate your customer!

I’ll add:

5. Taking apart your knife should not, in itself, void the warranty. You screw up reassembly or need help, that is at the discretion of the mfg. Maybe they refuse, maybe they charge.

Some people don’t understand the need to disassemble. I use my knives in the duck blind, pheasant hunting, camping and rafting. They get muddy, sandy and bloody from cleaning game. Disassembling them is the right way to clean and maintain them. Using blast cleaners, just doesn’t cut it.

Someone said this is not like maintaining a firearm. I could not disagree more. See above. This is just another tool. Every gun I own comes with instructions to disassemble and maintain. It’s not hard; I learned as a kid in the Boy Scouts...point being it’s easy enough a kid can do it. Gun manufactures allow customers to buy parts and design them to be taken apart. This model works in conjunction with reasonable warranty policies.

Design knives to be taken apart. Use quality fasteners. Provide replacement parts…give free replacement screws if you want to provide quality customer service like ZT, or charge for them….but provide them. Educate your customers so they don't screw it up.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Every month we get back hundreds of knives that have been returned to dealers.

These knives have been played with, taken apart, re-assembled and then returned to the dealer as "new" for a refund.

Dealers will just put them back on the shelf to send to some other poor customers that believes he's getting a new knife. It isn't a new knife;

it has been taken apart and put back together by an amateur. Most (95%) of the time a knife is taken apart by an amateur it is not put back together properly so the new customer gets screwed by the previous customer.



sal
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Tamper proof seals/ stickers over the fasteners.
 
What kind of person would take apart a knife and then send it back? That's extremely disappointing to say the least. And there are acutally that many people disassembling knives and returning it to the retailer for it to cause a loss to the spyderco? Man that is really screwing the customers that are able to maintain there knives properly.

I own 15-20 spydercos and maintain them, and if I came across something I knew I couldn't, or if I actually found a defect, I would send it back back without messing with it. I also know if I caused the damage myself I wouldnt expect spyderco to fix it.

Im hoping maybe spyderco can put some type of tamper evidence on the knife so that once the knife has been tampered with it is now marked as used. Then if someone tries to return it they can return it to the customer at their expense. After that I'm sure they'll learn not to that anymore.
 
uxo2 said:
Tamper proof seals/ stickers over the fasteners.
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This is the most palatable of the many solutions proposed. This way people can see how the knife is in-hand, can check the action, and potentially even drop it into the pocket, but they can't take the thing apart without flagging it. If the sticker's busted, then it's not eligible for return, just warranty work.
 
GH9000 said:
What kind of person would take apart a knife and then send it back? That's extremely disappointing to say the least. And there are acutally that many people disassembling knives and returning it to the retailer for it to cause a loss to the spyderco? Man that is really screwing the customers that are able to maintain there knives properly.

I own 15-20 spydercos and maintain them, and if I came across something I knew I couldn't, or if I actually found a defect, I would send it back back without messing with it. I also know if I caused the damage myself I wouldnt expect spyderco to fix it.

Im hoping maybe spyderco can put some type of tamper evidence on the knife so that once the knife has been tampered with it is now marked as used. Then if someone tries to return it they can return it to the customer at their expense. After that I'm sure they'll learn not to that anymore.
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Same douchebags that order an authentic knife and return a good fake with the authentic packaging for a refund. Not cool IMO. I don’t want to buy other people’s problems or stupidity.

I rarely take apart my knives and have never taken apart a Spyderco. Tamper proof if done properly is a good idea....
 
SharpieB said:
Same douchebags that order an authentic knife and return a good fake with the authentic packaging for a refund. Not cool IMO. I don’t want to buy other people’s problems or stupidity.

I rarely take apart my knives and have never taken apart a Spyderco. Tamper proof if done properly is a good idea....
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Dang takes a true manipulative/toxic personality to do some shady stuff like that. Very sad
 
Just read this thread. I'm arrogant enough to believe I have the right answer for most problems. I don't know the answer to this one. As others have mentioned, some sort of system to make it clear a knife has been tampered with would be good. Then resellers (or Spyderco for direct sales) could refuse those returns. I don't know how easy this is to do and how much burden it places on resellers and Spyderco. Or Spyderco can pin all their knives which solves the problem but costs some sales.

This is a tough problem. I appreciate Sal having an open discussion about it.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Perhaps this can be an ongoing discussion?
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Two comments :
1 ) I am a mechanic, understand the various uses of loctites and I take pride in my skills and fine tools to do the work correctly.
I mod many, many of my knives going as far as grinding the blades by more than half as thin as factory (carefully and slowly on cool cutting wheels; yes this takes for ever)
hahaha mostly Cold Steel knives hahahah

With all that said . . .
2 ) I have never felt the need to disassemble a Spyderco to replace scales or mess with the internals.
THEY WORK and I like the way they are from the factory; and judging by all that I go through with the other brands THAT IS REALLY SAYING SOME THING !
The most that I have done is move the pivot screw a couple of degrees to get a new knife to drop rather than "break it in" or move a pocket clip.

So I'm with ya Sal . . . leaving good enough (way better than good enough ) alone.

PS: to be totally candid I was tempted twice; I thought I wanted an M4 blade in my blurple knife . . . was going to buy the raw green scaled knife and swap; I found out after I got them that I like them just as they are and kept them that way.
Before that I was tempted to mod the Manix LW for lighter spring action in the lock. Remove/replace rivets what have you. If I'd kept the Manix I probably would have but decided I'm not a Manix person.
 
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I love Spyderco and I understand there are a lot of crooks and morons out there but part of why I pay a premium for a quality tool (Spyderco knife) is so I can service it so it lasts a long time much like a quality firearm. I also love mechanical things (a big reason why I collect knives) so tinkering with a knife is part of the fun. I've stopped buying pinned knives because of this.
 
How about putting a bright orange paper looped around the knife and through under the clip that a customer has to remove. It should read in giant letters "Taking this knife apart voids the warranty and your ability to return the knife to the dealer."?

I have used my folders in blood, guts, mud, sand, salt water, tree sap, old motor oil, and all sorts of stuff and the only time I have ever taken a knife apart was to change the scales. I cannot fathom the need for it.
 
As shown in one of my Medford threads, I obviously don't care about warranties. :D

That said, I absolutely agree that if you disassemble it, it is yours.
If I were going to sell that Medford (which I ain't gonna), I'd engrave "Warranty Voided" in huge block letter inside, easily visible to all. :cool:

Spyderco has been kind enough to send me some parts along the way, but they are my knives that are staying with me.
I am not passing along potential problems to other people.
 
Hi. I’m an amateur with knives but, as engineer, I like to play with my tools when it comes to disassembly, assembly, clean, maintain, etc. :) After all, “knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation, and is thus a source of civilized delight” :).

I believe knives, like all the other common tools, should be designed “right from the beginning”, to allow, at least, a kind of basic “field strip”, like it’s the case for most of the fire arms. It should be possible to disassemble the main elements/parts with no major difficulties and it should be intuitive and simple how to put the parts back and have the tool in good order and working properly, after cleaning/basic maintenance.

Honestly, in my learning process, I have damaged more than one knife with disassembly/re-assembly and, sometimes, I had to face failure; my own or by design. Poor screws quality, use of glues/adhesives, proprietary fittings, etc. do not contribute, at least for me, to customers satisfaction. Actually, quite the opposite. I get rather pi$$ed when simple things become a chore/annoyance.

This said, I have always taken my responsibility and brought back to a dealer’s repair shop my damaged tool and ask and paid for repairs. Never tried to cheat dealers about damages I was responsible for. But I guess this boils down to own integrity. Unfortunately, in few cases, not even the dealer’s repair shop has been able to fix the thing and this really speaks volumes about how, sometimes, the tools are today designed and constructed :(. Never had issues with the few Spyderco products I own, though the first disassembly/re-assembly of my Pacific Salt has been a real pain in the a$$ :D:p.
 
Sal,
Thank you for caring enough to bring this topic to our attention. It really shows your dedication to your customers and the industry.

I don't have a solution to the issue at hand. But I do see two contributing factors that I'd like to share.

First, every Spyderco I have purchased new except for the one I bought at the factory outlet store has had an overly tight pivot. Even after hundreds of openings the knives have still been overly stiff in normal operation IMO. The forum suggested I manually adjust the pivots, which I did and now the knives are perfect. But this invites tinkering with the knife as a normal process, which might promote the idea of further tinkering.

Second, it would be helpful to clarify exactly what services Spyderco can offer customers with knife problems. I know you recently have made efforts to clarify what warranties cover, which is a great beginning. However not so long ago it was very unclear. I dropped my EDC knife in some mud. I thought I could disassemble it, clean it and reassemble it without issue. I was wrong. I'm that guy that took it apart, damaged something, and couldn't put it back together. I got some misinformation on the forums & when I called about repair services to the SFO I didn't get a clear answer. I felt like I was on my own to fix the problem. It took me a while but I eventually did figure out a way to repair the issue. And the knife is working again. But as a customer, there was a lot of confusion regarding who I could turn to for assistance. Since that time, I have visited the SFO in person and come to understand Spyderco's policies. But this is only clear because I was able to talk to somebody face-to-face and get a better understanding. The opinions, rumors, information & misinformation on the Internet varies greatly and make it hard for enthusiasts to know where to get help.

Again thank you for taking time to invite feedback.
 
As a knife user/ collector and a quality control inspector, I think there are valid points from both perspective. No fix is absolute. Maybe a "seal" would help, but I have seen parts come back to my company "worked on" with claims that we were at fault and should be fixed for free. Nine out of ten times the company just fixes it at a loss. It seems, instead of educating the customer, there is a fear of losing the customer or potential drama with them. It drives me crazy that we don't do a better job of educating our customers. In the end that's the best way to not only combat the problem, but most customer's will appreciate being part of the process. Maybe this would be a great edge-u-cation e-mail to customers?
 
What about a single proprietary bit used for all scales and handle screws?

I know a lot of folks aren't a fan of them, but if it wasn't that expensive ($10 or so), it wouldn't be cost prohibitive to many folks that care for their knives, and have the know-how to do it.

But, for folks that aren't as into the hobby as we are, they may see that the bit needed is a special one, and figure that it is intentionally not available. Also, they may see the cost, and not want to spend a few more dollars, since they think it isn't "designed" to be taken apart, or not want spend a few bucks and not be able to put it back together.
I believe in this instance, the old adage, "adding salt to the wound" would apply.
 
-Flat rate repair fee for "bag o parts" or damage by disassembly
-Availability of parts that don't require splitting the knife (basically body screws)
-Offer blade replacement on regular production models for a fee (off topic but I had to throw that in there)
-Please stop using red loctite. I think it causes more issues than it fixes.
 
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