"Thats illegal!!!"

Lodd said:
Other Dutch guy here. This was something they told me back when I was a young boyscout, but it was always meant as a rule of thumb and just because they didn't want little kids to have huge knives. A lot of people take it literally.

Our laws about weapons are a huge clusterf***. And that's just the national law, local government may have added to it. In practice, the cop that stops and checks you decides what is illegal and what isn't. They tend to look at context a lot (are you in the woods wearing your scout uniform or are near a club in the big city?)


On a sidenote, I had a huge laugh at my previous employer. It was a port facility that receives international vessels. They have to live up to the ISPS code for port security. So my boss went to one of those mandatory events/courses and some guy there told him to distribute a pamflet. Which he then delegated to me. The pamflet told us employees we shouldn't take any illegal weapons to work, such as rapiers, crossbows and (I kid you not) rocketlaunchers. It even had a picture of an RPG-7 on it. Needless to say, we were all pretty bummed we couldn't take our rocketlaunchers to work anymore.
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It used to be said that cops in the low countries did not have the authority to stop and check a person’s pocket. I know it was a line in the movie pulp fiction, regarding cannibis. Is this no longer the case, post 9/11,(or maybe it was just a myth in the first place)? If my spyderco military is concealed in my pocket, and I’m not committing a crime, could I be “stopped and frisked” like any New Yorker during the Giuliani/Bloomberg years?
 
Yonose said:
It used to be said that cops in the low countries did not have the authority to stop and check a person’s pocket. I know it was a line in the movie pulp fiction, regarding cannibis. Is this no longer the case, post 9/11,(or maybe it was just a myth in the first place)? If my spyderco military is concealed in my pocket, and I’m not committing a crime, could I be “stopped and frisked” like any New Yorker during the Giuliani/Bloomberg years?
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Yes, today you can be stopped and frisked. I think officially they need some sort of reason, but a reason like: 'You're near the station and there is a lot of crime in this area', or 'You look suspicious enough to me' is good enough. IIRC it was different back when pulp fiction came out and they changed it in the time between.

If you don't behave suspiciously and don't dress suspiciously (so don't wear shirts proclaiming how 'Gangsta' you are), you should be fine most of the time. It depends on context. If you're trying to get into clubs your knife will be confiscated. If you hang around clubs your knife will be confiscated.

If you must transport your knife through a busy station or other inappropriate context, you should pack it really deep. A good rule of thumb is: can you have it at the ready in three steps or less? Again, it depends on the officer what exactly constitutes 'a step', but if you wrap it in something and put it at the bottom of your bag so that it'll take you 5 minutes to get it out, not many officers will object. Mind you, this isn't really written down in the law anywhere, just how it works in practice.

Without getting political: if you look and act well-behaved and you are white, you'll probably never be frisked. Looks are everything. Sad but true.
 
explorer13421 said:
New York State prohibits possession of gravity knives, and defines the term to include locking knives that can be opened by application of centrifugal force. That is, if you can hold the exposed part of the closed blade and "flick" your hand so the blade opens and locks, it is considered a gravity knife. Same for a knife the blade drop open if you turn it over so the blade is on the bottom. The New York City Police and one of the NYC District Attorneys are very aggressive in arresting and prosecuting people with Buck 110s, Gerber EZOuts, etc. During the last two years the NYS Legislature has passed a law to make it clear that flicking a knife like a Buck 110 did not make it a gravity knife. Governor Andrew Cuomo has vetoed the law each time. Please remember that when he tries to run for President.
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Even a Leatherman Wave can be grounds for arrest in NYC, the outside blades are able to be "flicked" opened like this.
 
GermanyChris said:
It’s just best to carry a slip joint when you’re in a major city
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I disagree, most major cities in America people carry knives with no issues.

Certain large cities (which are well known) that intentionally prosecute citizens for nearly any knife, I would agree, a slip joint is best.

New york city for example is a minority when compared to large cities in 49 other states.
 
GermanyChris said:
It’s just best to carry a slip joint when you’re in a major city
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The lack of a lock won't save you in Chicago; to be legal it's just a 2.5" blade length limit, so a 2.6" bladed slippie is a deadly weapon (which again, hilariously, I can't legally carry even with an Illinois CCL, which allows me to carry a firearm).

To be clear, thousands and thousands of people are no doubt breaking the law every day in Chicago as a result. Every tradesman with a pocket knife, every IT guy with a Leatherman, every person who thinks their little SAK must be legal, etc.--all law breakers. And as folks will point out every time this is discussed, as long as you don't behave like an idiot you'll probably never get in trouble. Of course, that assumes a perfect world where law enforcement people are always reasonable people who are never out to jam people up just to jam people up, and in the real world that's not something you can rely on. Having that harmless Leatherman in your pocket in Chicago will probably never cause you an issue, but if some LEO is in a bad mood and is looking to jam you up, it could happen. I have a customer who had an IT guy who worked rack and stack and cabling in a datacenter get charged in Chicago for possession of a Leatherman. He was detained for something else and I think it was found in his backpack. I don't remember the details, but he was never charged with whatever the original reason for the search was--when that didn't pan out, they just dug around until they found something they could charge him with and settled on some version of possession of a deadly/dangerous weapon. I worked with the guy's boss, and when he was telling me about it he said the company tried to helpfully support the guy by providing an affidavit or something attesting to the employee's need to carry the Leatherman as a tool, not a weapon, for his job, but because they guy had exchanged a few choice words with the cop about the original stop and search being total BS (something that he was entirely correct about) the state pressed forward anyway to teach him a lesson. IIRC the guy ended up pleading down to some lesser charge than the original charge because it meant just paying a large fine that was still less than the cost of representation if they pushed it. Now that guy has a criminal record, however minor, because he was carrying an innocuous little multi-tool.

It's absolutely nutty that I can, and do, carry a loaded firearm in Chicago but a tiny little #6 Opinel in my pocket could land me in court.

I need to get out of this crap state . . .
 
evilgreg said:
The lack of a lock won't save you in Chicago; to be legal it's just a 2.5" blade length limit, so a 2.6" bladed slippie is a deadly weapon (which again, hilariously, I can't legally carry even with an Illinois CCL, which allows me to carry a firearm).

To be clear, thousands and thousands of people are no doubt breaking the law every day in Chicago as a result. Every tradesman with a pocket knife, every IT guy with a Leatherman, every person who thinks their little SAK must be legal, etc.--all law breakers. And as folks will point out every time this is discussed, as long as you don't behave like an idiot you'll probably never get in trouble. Of course, that assumes a perfect world where law enforcement people are always reasonable people who are never out to jam people up just to jam people up, and in the real world that's not something you can rely on. Having that harmless Leatherman in your pocket in Chicago will probably never cause you an issue, but if some LEO is in a bad mood and is looking to jam you up, it could happen. I have a customer who had an IT guy who worked rack and stack and cabling in a datacenter get charged in Chicago for possession of a Leatherman. He was detained for something else and I think it was found in his backpack. I don't remember the details, but he was never charged with whatever the original reason for the search was--when that didn't pan out, they just dug around until they found something they could charge him with and settled on some version of possession of a deadly/dangerous weapon. I worked with the guy's boss, and when he was telling me about it he said the company tried to helpfully support the guy by providing an affidavit or something attesting to the employee's need to carry the Leatherman as a tool, not a weapon, for his job, but because they guy had exchanged a few choice words with the cop about the original stop and search being total BS (something that he was entirely correct about) the state pressed forward anyway to teach him a lesson. IIRC the guy ended up pleading down to some lesser charge than the original charge because it meant just paying a large fine that was still less than the cost of representation if they pushed it. Now that guy has a criminal record, however minor, because he was carrying an innocuous little multi-tool.

It's absolutely nutty that I can, and do, carry a loaded firearm in Chicago but a tiny little #6 Opinel in my pocket could land me in court.

I need to get out of this crap state . . .
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Agreed. I've been wanting to move too. I want to move to a constitutional carry state, I haven't settled on which one yet. But the wife and I are serious about it.
 
I'm from south florida, millions of people and large cities and knives are carried pretty freely.
 
shinyedges said:
Agreed. I've been wanting to move too. I want to move to a constitutional carry state, I haven't settled on which one yet. But the wife and I are serious about it.
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For me the terrible knife and gun laws are just the cherry on top of a massive tax load sundae, but we're definitely moving. With Illinois it's not just the absurd level of taxation today, either--it's only going to get worse with the state's huge annual deficits and ludicrous pension issues.

My wife's only requirement is that we move some place with little or no real winter. For me it's lower tax burden and less restrictive gun laws, mostly.
 
evilgreg said:
For me the terrible knife and gun laws are just the cherry on top of a massive tax load sundae, but we're definitely moving. With Illinois it's not just the absurd level of taxation today, either--it's only going to get worse with the state's huge annual deficits and ludicrous pension issues.

My wife's only requirement is that we move some place with little or no real winter. For me it's lower tax burden and less restrictive gun laws, mostly.
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Again, I agree. Where I'm from we never had state taxes. When I moved to michigan there was state taxes, bad gun laws, short summers, and road salt. Michigan does have its benefits but I don't think it's for us.
 
shinyedges said:
Again, I agree. Where I'm from we never had state taxes. When I moved to michigan there was state taxes, bad gun laws, short summers, and road salt. Michigan does have its benefits but I don't think it's for us.
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If you live where I think you do it's IMHO one of the best places in the nation only slightly ahead of where I am right now.
 
basmca said:
i get this a lot '' that's illegal'' comments.

for some reason there's a myth around here that a pocketknife can not be bigger than the palm of your hand.
so very often when people ask about my knife and i hand it too them they lay it on their hand and say ''oh yea that's illegal''

i honestly don't know where this myth came from, maybe another Dutch guy here may know it.
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No I don't but I get that alot too! How stupid is the idea that a knife must be measured by the palm of your hand. As if every hand palm is exactly the same size.
You can carry a folder that locks, is assisted or is a one handed opener, as long as it's not bigger than 28cm total in lenght.
 
Lodd said:
Yes, today you can be stopped and frisked. I think officially they need some sort of reason, but a reason like: 'You're near the station and there is a lot of crime in this area', or 'You look suspicious enough to me' is good enough. IIRC it was different back when pulp fiction came out and they changed it in the time between.

If you don't behave suspiciously and don't dress suspiciously (so don't wear shirts proclaiming how 'Gangsta' you are), you should be fine most of the time. It depends on context. If you're trying to get into clubs your knife will be confiscated. If you hang around clubs your knife will be confiscated.
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Thats not entirely accurate. Police may frisk you only in designated high risk areas. (like a football stadium or certain public places) The mayor or the local counsil has to consult the public prosecutor the appoint risk areas.

In all other areas, police need probable cause to conduct a search.
 
pfranze78 said:
No I don't but I get that alot too! How stupid is the idea that a knife must be measured by the palm of your hand. As if every hand palm is exactly the same size.
You can carry a folder that locks, is assisted or is a one handed opener, as long as it's not bigger than 28cm total in lenght.
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Yea i'm aware. The myth is so weird though.

I also find it funny that auto's are banned but a flipper or whatever under 28cm is fine. 28CM is freaking huge. My ZT 0452 is 24CM, so even that is well within the range.
 
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