The 4034 knives are starting to roll out. First real world testing shows promising results

Benjamin Liu said:
This would mean that most major manufacturers and almost all custom makers have been lying to the public for years about cutlery steel and the steels most users and collectors think is good is just more expensive than 4034 while still inferior to it.

I seriously doubt this is the case.
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:eek:Maybe a huge conspiracy ? Better kept secret than most are .:rolleyes:
 
Lynn Thompson is nuts but at least he cared and it wasn't about just making money. Are there any videos of somebody swinging these new versions at half a pig? I'm pretty doubtful they're going to do that because it would show a massive fail.
 
Bigfattyt said:
I think if you are comparing 4034 to 1095 or CarbonV you will find the 4034 to be tougher and have equal or slightly better edge retention.

I have not seen toughness levels for 4034 yet, but it is close to 420HC which is extremely tough (surprisingly much tougher than 1095). Low carbide volume, fine grain size is a recipe for toughness.

420HC, AEBL, and 14c28n are examples of this and much tougher than 1095. They are actually a bit tougher than 52100, much tougher than A2, 01, vg10 and cpm154.

People act like 1095 or carbonV have stellar toughness and edge retention, but neither is true.

1095 is 10 Foof lbs ot less in common hardness.


I have not seen toughness data for 4034 specifically, but based on its carbon content i would expect good toughness (provided a good hest treat).



I'd love to see knifesteelnerds.com get their hands on some test samples.

Now....replacing 3v with 4034 and keeping prices similar is going to be bad for business.

That same swap with a price point much lower makes more sense.

I'm not in the market for a khukri currently as I have a few in 5160 from HI, and a few others.
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You made 4034 sound like super-steel.

Yet only thing that's "super" about it - is that it's super cheap.
 
DangerZone98 said:
The Camp 10 at least has an appropriate steel for the usage, lol. Carbon spring steel will take a licking.
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I've used a camp 10... the steel is ok for the price. I prefer 5160, or other steels like 52100.
DocJD said:
If this is true , why hasn't this been done LONG before ?

A cheap stainless with great performance ?

Was it a big secret ?

I can't say you're wrong , but seems real fishy to me .:confused:
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It is likely going to be plenty tough. The down side will be a reduction in edge retention.

If they had used 420hc with Buck's heat treat, I would put up a dollar that it would be tougher than CS's CarbonV, and have equal edge retention (knife steel nerds has great comparisons of the edge retention and toughness of various steels).

I've seen edge retention comparisons between 4034 and 8cr13mov....it did worse on the rope slice than rhe 8cr13mov (I have two knives in that steel from Spyderco and it is a decent budget steel).


I'm nor saying I would buy a CS khukri in 4034.....Unless it were at a real budget price (if I saw one in the $50 range I'd bite). But it will chop just fine, and be plenty tough. It will suffer in edge retention compared to a steel like 52100, A2, or O1. (I've never seen an edge retention test with CarbonV where the steel was same thickness, k own hardness....ie where a third oarty tester gets stock of the steel and does carta testing on samples).

I own several choppers in 5160 and other spring steels..and I bet the edge retention of 4034 will be in the same ballpark as spring steels....edge retention is poor, toughness very high....I like it for choppers.

If they had asked me I would have recommended AEBL or another tough stainless in that family. (14c28n or 19c27).

They have a reliable source for drop forged 52100....it is insane they are releasing the khukri plus in 4034...




I'm just saying the common myth that basic stainless can't be super tough is completely incorrect.

Go look at the toughness numbers of 420HC... 420 has better edge retention than 01, 1095, 26c3 about even with cruforge v, just below 52100

knifesteelnerds.com

Edge Retention Testing of Seven More Steels - XHP, SPY27, Maxamet, Rex 45, 420, T15, Rex 76 - Knife Steel Nerds

More edge retention testing on a range of high speed and stainless steels. Rex 45 vs M4, Maxamet vs everthing else.
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com


I'm also saying the edge retention of the simpler high carbon steels like 1095 is grosly overstated (as is the terrible low toughness numbers for 1095).
 
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According to Cedric and Ada, the Cold Steel Crawford folder in 4034 is rated at HRC 57. I wonder if these knives are the same.
 
EatingSarma said:
You made 4034 sound like super-steel.

Yet only thing that's "super" about it - is that it's super cheap.
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Again, I'm just saying a lot of the common "knowledge" that is parroted about simple high carbon steels is wrong (ie 1095 has great edge retention and toughness....this is absolutely false.....people say it because they don't know any better).

Empirical testing dispells these myths.


I own a lot of 1095, enough 5160 and other spring steels, lots of stainless of most flavors...

I've forged and made knives out of 1080, 5160, 15n20...

Owned and used a lot of INFI, cpm3v, 52100, A2, cpm154, 440c, 420hc, 4116 Krupp, Aus8a, Vg10, Vg1, AEBL, 1070, 1055, 1065, 1084,
5160, 6150, L6, 15n20 and about 20 other steels I'm too lazy to look up.

I'm saying that 4034, based on its carbon content and manufacturer should have small carbide, and high toughness.....CS is likely to have a some what decent best treat on the steel. It is not going to blow anyone away with edge retention,

So people shouting it is going to shatter if it chops wood, or cuts a pig are likely incorrect.

Many of the most impressive cuts you see happening with Cold Steel swords is happening with their 1055...an absolutely lowest of the low low carbon steel..... absolutely terrible edge retention....but plenty tough (much more so than 1095, or CarbonV). Their cpm3v knives are dandy, I've owned and used one of their laminated SanMai trailmasters too.

Again I'm not planning on buying one in 4034...I would not have bought it in O1 or A2 either (both are only marginally tougher than 1095 (1095 at about 10 ftlbs toughness pretty low, A2 and 01 are only marginally tougher at 15 ftlbs....1084 can be up at 25 ftlbs, 52100 will get you 30 ftlbs 5160 at 45 ftlbs, Aebl at about 37).

knifesteelnerds.com

What is the Best Budget Knife Steel? - Knife Steel Nerds

There are man high-end powder metallurgy knife steels. But what about the knife buyer/maker that wants a lower cost option? What's the best choice?
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com
 
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Bigfattyt said:
Again, I'm just saying a lot of the common "knowledge" that is parroted about simple high carbon steels is wrong (ie 1095 has great edge retention and toughness....this is absolutely false.....people say it because they don't know any better).

Empirical testing dispells these myths.


I own a lot of 1095, enough 5160 and other spring steels, lots of stainless of most flavors...

I've forged and made knives out of 1080, 5160, 15n20...

Owned and used a lot of INFI, cpm3v, 52100, A2, cpm154, 440c, 420hc, 4116 Krupp, Aus8a, Vg10, Vg1, AEBL, 1070, 1055, 1065, 1084,
5160, 6150, L6, 15n20 and about 20 other steels I'm too lazy to look up.

I'm saying that 4034, based on its carbon content and manufacturer should have small carbide, and high toughness.....CS is likely to have a some what decent best treat on the steel. It is not going to blow anyone away with edge retention,

So people shouting it is going to shatter if it chops wood, or cuts a pig are likely incorrect.

Many of the most impressive cuts you see happening with Cold Steel swords is happening with their 1055...an absolutely lowest of the low low carbon steel..... absolutely terrible edge retention....but plenty tough (much more so than 1095, or CarbonV). Their cpm3v knives are dandy, I've owned and used one of their laminated SanMai trailmasters too.

Again I'm not planning on buying one in 4034...I would not have bought it in O1 or A2 either (both are only marginally tougher than 1095 (1095 at about 10 ftlbs toughness pretty low, A2 and 01 are only marginally tougher at 15 ftlbs....1084 can be up at 25 ftlbs, 52100 will get you 30 ftlbs 5160 at 45 ftlbs, Aebl at about 37).

knifesteelnerds.com

What is the Best Budget Knife Steel? - Knife Steel Nerds

There are man high-end powder metallurgy knife steels. But what about the knife buyer/maker that wants a lower cost option? What's the best choice?
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com
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I don't think it would shatter, lol. I do think they'd have to take multiple chops at it instead of the old videos where they do it with one blow. Of course, there's no way in knowing how many takes those old videos required. I guess mostly I just hate seeing what a lot of people predicted might happen actually happen, which is that the new owners have decided to cut quality and apparently raise prices.
 
DangerZone98 said:
Super cheap at only $180! šŸ˜…
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Steel is cheap, knife is not. That's how they make a profit.

Bigfattyt said:
Again, I'm just saying a lot of the common "knowledge" that is parroted about simple high carbon steels is wrong (ie 1095 has great edge retention and toughness....this is absolutely false.....people say it because they don't know any better).

Empirical testing dispells these myths.


I own a lot of 1095, enough 5160 and other spring steels, lots of stainless of most flavors...

I've forged and made knives out of 1080, 5160, 15n20...

Owned and used a lot of INFI, cpm3v, 52100, A2, cpm154, 440c, 420hc, 4116 Krupp, Aus8a, Vg10, Vg1, AEBL, 1070, 1055, 1065, 1084,
5160, 6150, L6, 15n20 and about 20 other steels I'm too lazy to look up.

I'm saying that 4034, based on its carbon content and manufacturer should have small carbide, and high toughness.....CS is likely to have a some what decent best treat on the steel. It is not going to blow anyone away with edge retention,

So people shouting it is going to shatter if it chops wood, or cuts a pig are likely incorrect.

Many of the most impressive cuts you see happening with Cold Steel swords is happening with their 1055...an absolutely lowest of the low low carbon steel..... absolutely terrible edge retention....but plenty tough (much more so than 1095, or CarbonV). Their cpm3v knives are dandy, I've owned and used one of their laminated SanMai trailmasters too.

Again I'm not planning on buying one in 4034...I would not have bought it in O1 or A2 either (both are only marginally tougher than 1095 (1095 at about 10 ftlbs toughness pretty low, A2 and 01 are only marginally tougher at 15 ftlbs....1084 can be up at 25 ftlbs, 52100 will get you 30 ftlbs 5160 at 45 ftlbs, Aebl at about 37).

knifesteelnerds.com

What is the Best Budget Knife Steel? - Knife Steel Nerds

There are man high-end powder metallurgy knife steels. But what about the knife buyer/maker that wants a lower cost option? What's the best choice?
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com
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I never said it'd shatter, I just said you should probably always carry sharpening stone with you if you buy one...

I'd suggest carrying a hammer too, so you can hammer it back straight once it bends.
 
SimplyMinded said:
Lynn Thompson is nuts but at least he cared and it wasn't about just making money. Are there any videos of somebody swinging these new versions at half a pig? I'm pretty doubtful they're going to do that because it would show a massive fail.
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No, that's not really demanding in a blade this thick. Nor is cutting rope or mats -- thats just a measure of sharpness and skill. The test with a tool like this is how well it handles chopping hard and soft woods before the edge becomes dull or rolled. 4034 is plenty good enough to use as Kukri steel, and most are probably made of something even worse. That's not the point.

The issue here is that they are PRETENDING that 4034 is some kind of high end material, and they are doing so in order to scam people who don't know any better. It's not great steel, and it is not even good steel by today's standards. It is basically the cheapest junk you can get that has a name or number attached. Condor, who specialize in quality consumer grade knives and tools, don't even dip down into 4034 / securex territory. They insist on better. Cold Steel should do likewise.
 
SimplyMinded said:
I don't think it would shatter, lol. I do think they'd have to take multiple chops at it instead of the old videos where they do it with one blow. Of course, there's no way in knowing how many takes those old videos required. I guess mostly I just hate seeing what a lot of people predicted might happen actually happen, which is that the new owners have decided to cut quality and apparently raise prices.
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That steel, with the same geometry as one of the earlier versions in different steel will make the same chops....but might not stay as sharp over longer use.
EatingSarma said:
Steel is cheap, knife is not. That's how they make a profit.


I never said it'd shatter, I just said you should probably always carry sharpening stone with you if you buy one...

I'd suggest carrying a hammer too, so you can hammer it back straight once it bends.
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Now, carrying a sharpening stone is good advice. I do the same when I take out choppers in spring steel!! But I suffer from sharpening OCD!
 
Bigfattyt said:
I think if you are comparing 4034 to 1095 or CarbonV you will find the 4034 to be tougher and have equal or slightly better edge retention.

I have not seen toughness levels for 4034 yet, but it is close to 420HC which is extremely tough (surprisingly much tougher than 1095). Low carbide volume, fine grain size is a recipe for toughness.

420HC, AEBL, and 14c28n are examples of this and much tougher than 1095. They are actually a bit tougher than 52100, much tougher than A2, 01, vg10 and cpm154.

People act like 1095 or carbonV have stellar toughness and edge retention, but neither is true.

1095 is 10 Foof lbs ot less in common hardness.


I have not seen toughness data for 4034 specifically, but based on its carbon content i would expect good toughness (provided a good hest treat).



I'd love to see knifesteelnerds.com get their hands on some test samples.

Now....replacing 3v with 4034 and keeping prices similar is going to be bad for business.

That same swap with a price point much lower makes more sense.

I'm not in the market for a khukri currently as I have a few in 5160 from HI, and a few others.
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carbon v is or was 0170-06......or 50100b or 1095 crovan......1095 is a different steel. close but different. carbon v has more toughness and edge retention than plain old 1095.....and you maybe calling 1095crovan just 1095..just want to point out for others 0176-0 is a different and better steel than 1095 with better attributes.
 
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This comes with a better sheath for $27.



n2s
 
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4034. Carbon .5% Chromium 14% Manganese .1%

440A. Carbon .7% Chromium 17% Manganese .1% + Molybdenum, Silicon, Nickel and Phosphorus (all of which improve strength).

The Mtech model in 440a now apparently has better steel than the GSM knockoff of the Cold Steel knife.

n2s
 
not2sharp said:
4034. Carbon .5% Chromium 14% Manganese .1%

440A. Carbon .7% Chromium 17% Manganese .1% + Molybdenum, Silicon, Nickel and Phosphorus (all of which improve strength).

The Mtech model in 440a now apparently has better steel than the GSM knockoff of the Cold Steel knife.

n2s
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Look up reviews on Amazon and see/read about all of the broken blades. Iā€™m not so sure going the knockoff route is worth it.
 
jux t said:
Look up reviews on Amazon and see/read about all of the broken blades. Iā€™m not so sure going the knockoff route is worth it.
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Neither am I, but it is still a better knife than the GSM 4034 junk. If there are a few broken blades, it is perhaps because the people buying $20 knives are not holding back on using and abusing them.

n2s
 
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