The Bears' Den--Shirogorov Showcase

[TheManInBlack]

Thought about it but it’s out of my range and too pricey, anyway, for something I’d feel comfortable carrying. I kind of expected it to be well under $2K.

 

[BluegrassBrian]

Amazed I'm on page 1 in this thread.

Just got my first Shiro after nearly 8 years- a Stellar.. and it is.

 

[Bacchus]

 

[Pompous]

Very interesting. Looks like the inlays are purely cosmetic from what I can see here?

I am a long time Lochsa lover so definitely hope I hit on the lotto. Price in the US is $2400.

How are the initial impressions from your side/from the Russian collectors? I've heard theorizing that some of the usual Shiro crowd might not be in love with the Bushing/Washer action since they are used to smooth bearings. Hopefully that makes it a bit easier for me to pick one up

EDIT: Reviewed the image again, looks like the actual purpose is to cover the stop pin - which makes sense. On the full customs, Scott inserts a hardened stop pin, then a small titanium cover, then blends it together with the frame so you cant even tell it's there. That would be very difficult to replicate on a production knife so this works as an alternative.

 

[FeelingEdgy]

Just received this today, love the technocarbon!

 

[DNAIrradiator]

At first I felt a little disappointed but finally decided to keep the Terrus for a while as a replacement for the standard 111 CF M390 which I sold a few days ago.

Prs​	Cns​
Flawless sample almost in every way: Deadcentered Perfect grind and stonewash Perfectly even anodization of clip and backspacer Extra long blade (0.5mm gap between the tip and the spacer) — which is not guaranteed, I saw shorter blades Smooth action out of the box, no need to deal with infamous "black gunk" they used to generously put into the pivot	Not sharp out of the box, could be a result of improper deburring — a minor issue, but most people expect a sharp blade for the price
S90V — not an upgrade over M390 in terms of actual EDC, but uncommon alloy for production Shiro	Thicker and heavier blade (~3.4mm), but thanks God they did not make them 4mm thick
Less fancy (or should I say more laconic) blade design — a matter of personal preferences, but I certainly dig this simpler type of groove	"Rare Earth" TechnoCarbo — same name but different carbon, it looks like "standard" Marble Carbon with a pinch of bronze powder. F3 Terrus definitely had more rich and colorful texture, the most attractive of all 4 in the F3 project
A large pivot bead with Earth texture — if you care for limited edition beads
Reasonable price — very close or equal to the price of production 111 CF M390 (~$1000 directly from the maker, $1300 in the US)

Not sure why you’re saying the recent 111 Rare Earth Technocarbo is different from the F3 Terrus. I have both in my hand and if anything, the 111 version is “shinier” and more vibrant and light reflective than the F3 offering. They certainly are the same material by my eye and not as how you’ve described. I’ll post some pics soon. Also, S90V is typically respected as superior to M390/204P/20CV, the numbers reported here attest to this:

Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist - Toughness, Edge Retention, and Corrosion Resistance - Knife Steel Nerds

Steel Metallurgist Larrin Thomas uses tests of knife steels to rate the steels and explains the factors that control performance.

knifesteelnerds.com

 

[Bacchus]

Not sure why you’re saying the recent 111 Rare Earth Technocarbo is different from the F3 Terrus.

I might have failed to properly describe my issue. And maybe I was exaggerating [a bit].

I have both in my hand and if anything, the 111 version is “shinier” and more vibrant and light reflective than the F3 offering.

And that's part of the issue — "shining" could be the enemy of the texture nuances. When I first published a picture of my 111 on the local forum the 1st question was "Is it a standard 111 CF?" — because both marble CF and 111 RareEarth may look like a shiny piece of coal at first glance, depending on the lighting conditions of course.

Let me put it this way: 111 version is "40% black, 40% grey, 10% bronze and 10% gold". And F3 version is more like "30% black, 30% grey, 20% bronze and 20% gold".

I could be wrong and your sample could be very similar to F3 version, but after handling 4 (!) samples of 111 Terrus (I wanted to select the flawless one) I consider F3 texture a bit more colorful and detailed.

Here's a photo by Alexander S:

Also, S90V is typically respected as superior to M390/204P/20CV, the numbers reported here attest to this:

Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist - Toughness, Edge Retention, and Corrosion Resistance - Knife Steel Nerds

Steel Metallurgist Larrin Thomas uses tests of knife steels to rate the steels and explains the factors that control performance.

knifesteelnerds.com

The typical EDC scenario for my folders does not include cutting 200-300 ft. of rope or cardboard to see a drastic difference in performance on a daily basis.

I do agree that in general S90V edge tends to be more toothy and cuts more aggressively, hence it is superior in terms of enjoyment — that's why I prefer S90V and PGK (the later holds toothy edge at 15 dps remarkably well for an ingot steel) for my kitchen blades, given I can easily keep them clean and out of the reach of unaccustomed to rust prone high-performance steels.

But as for my folders I care for corrosion resistance a lot as I definitely do not want to see any pitting on my Shiro blades, and S90V requires more attention than M390.

---

Anyway, DNAIrradiator thank you for the comments, I've updated my Pros&Cons lists accordingly.

 

[Bacchus]

How are the initial impressions from your side/from the Russian collectors? I've heard theorizing that some of the usual Shiro crowd might not be in love with the Bushing/Washer action since they are used to smooth bearings. Hopefully that makes it a bit easier for me to pick one up

I believe your chances are better than mine – a large portion of the batch might have been shipped to US well before the official announcement. An educated guess: it's 70/30 in favour of your market, or even 75/25.

And I suppose local fans' decision to participate mostly depends on their financial situation regardless the smoothness of action – anyone with a credit card (given it's not maxxed out) might be willing to try his luck, hoping to witness this pretty unique project before selling their piece for some profit.

In case the collaboration is to be continued, it's safe to assume the further batches to be fancier and more expensive.

P.S. Thank you for disclosing the price.

 

[jfk1110]

Yep, it's Lochsa. I guess it is not a "true integral" — those inlays might provide access to the bushing and washers.

But I do like the overall design, may be even more than the original SCK custom.

A few pictures from the official announcement:

I'm not a framelock guy or Shiro lover either......In fact, the only model I'd buy is ChazzyP python model..

This, however is a different animal....... Very attractive and A smidge more obtainable than a custom.....Just a smidge so I don't have to worry..........

Good luck to those on the hunt for it......

 

[scorpnsnake]

I'm not a framelock guy or Shiro lover either......In fact, the only model I'd buy is ChazzyP python model..

This, however is a different animal....... Very attractive and A smidge more obtainable than a custom.....Just a smidge so I don't have to worry..........

Good luck to those on the hunt for it......

I'll take my place in line behind you for his Python please.

(Just re-read this statement. That middle school kid in my heart had a chuckle)

 

[Bacchus]

Sergey is a rather tall guy — yet he said once that 111 is too large to be carried in the pocket, and he prefers a belt pouch.

Ironically, the only clipless version (at least the only one I know) of 111 was the Outdoor project limited to 50 pieces.

And considerably smaller Lochsa was available without clip, until Scott closed the books.

P.S. I do understand the fundamental difference between full custom and mid-tech, but CRK provides "clip inserts" for those people, who prefer to carry their folders in a pouch. And Sebenza is not nearly as big as 111.

 

[TheManInBlack]

Any chance the other guy is a hobbit….?

 

[Pompous]

Any chance the other guy is a hobbit….?

Scott's definitely, like me, on the shorter side.

Lottery has supposedly been drawn - only one winner has actually posted their confirmation email so far. It typically takes an hour or so for all the emails to go out, payments to be confirmed, etc - and there is typically a few who are picked who do not pay (so their spot will be redrawn) which takes some additional time.

We'll see what happens - so far many many folks looking to buy and only one "usual suspect" shiro collector confirmed to have won.

 

[TheManInBlack]

I was really debating it up to this morning but I just ordered a custom last week, so with various birthdays and the holidays coming up, I’m tapped out. It is a really sweet-looking knife overall. I’m curious how the action will feel on bushings.

 

[Pompous]

Lottery has progressed in the predictable fashion. We've had 2 individuals claim to have won the lotto themselves post in the groups on FB (very common for US Collectors) - there are claims of knowing others who won but they have not come forward themselves. Lots of talk about whether or not knives are being held back for secondary/re-sale by the vendor, or perhaps just selectively awarded/distributed to chosen collectors. The vast majority of long-time shiro collectors personally did not win, and do not know anyone else who won.

In the vast majority of lottos, we have 5-10 folks come forward who are known collectors who have won (or know someone personally who did).

We'll see how it progresses - I think a lot of the concern/frustration is also around this particular vendor as a show promoter/runner and some of their decisions over the last few months/years. I personally am quite over supporting them unless a seemingly random distribution of folks come forward over the coming days/weeks as winners - I am very inclined to believe the lottery was falsified given some previous rumblings I've heard about their shows/etc.

Unfortunate that a very desirable knife is tied up in all this mess - would have liked to have had a chance. Oh well.

 

[Bacchus]

Lottery has progressed in the predictable fashion. We've had 2 individuals claim to have won the lotto themselves post in the groups on FB (very common for US Collectors) - there are claims of knowing others who won but they have not come forward themselves. Lots of talk about whether or not knives are being held back for secondary/re-sale by the vendor, or perhaps just selectively awarded/distributed to chosen collectors. The vast majority of long-time shiro collectors personally did not win, and do not know anyone else who won.

In the vast majority of lottos, we have 5-10 folks come forward who are known collectors who have won (or know someone personally who did).

We'll see how it progresses - I think a lot of the concern/frustration is also around this particular vendor as a show promoter/runner and some of their decisions over the last few months/years. I personally am quite over supporting them unless a seemingly random distribution of folks come forward over the coming days/weeks as winners - I am very inclined to believe the lottery was falsified given some previous rumblings I've heard about their shows/etc.

Unfortunate that a very desirable knife is tied up in all this mess - would have liked to have had a chance. Oh well.

Thanks a lot for the info. It looks surprisingly similar to the course of events in Russia.

I've heard from 2 dedicated collectors so far who actually won RL – they shared privately screenshots of the confirmation from the maker's representative. And there's a crowd of disappointed folks.

I really hope it was not the only batch and we'll see a few hundred more pieces manufactured. The further batches might have bells and whistles, but nevertheless.

My assumption is based on the history of the previous collab (RJM's Overkill/RQ36) – 8 batches, 1000 pieces.

 

[CPP]

Years ago I won several lotteries beginning with the Sinkevich Sigma, then the Pero, the Barker collab, etc. and lost perhaps one out of six or so. I felt it was fair as anyone with that success rate would and I was nowhere near being considered a collector

 

[TheManInBlack]

If it’s anything like Recon 1’s typical lotteries, this won’t be the only one. They will periodically post more lotteries for the same knife throughout the year, perhaps 3-4 months apart, I assume in order to avoid market saturation and to maintain an artificially-induced and temporary state of exclusivity. I don’t necessarily hate the lotteries but I don’t love them either. There is just no sure-fire way to get those knives solely into the hands of actual collectors without letting the scalpers and speculators get at them, just as for any other industry/hobby. Greedy opportunists will always want—and get—a seat at the table. I’ve entered several of the lotteries myself, perhaps 7-8, and have been selected for 2, which seems decently lucky to me.

Maybe their system could be set up so that people can enter multiple times based on prior purchase history; e.g., someone who has previously purchased 5 Shirogorovs from Recon 1 could get 5 spots in the drawing. But that kind of sucks for people who are serious collectors but mainly buy secondhand. You might have a dozen Shiros but all purchased from here and/or eBay. Raising the prices would not only hurt collectors, I think it would also motivate the scalpers to get more involved because of a potential higher rate of return. It’s frustrating but I think the lotteries in this type of high demand situation are better than dumping the knives on a store page and selling them FCFS, when websites get bogged down by thousands of simultaneous hits. I can’t even recount how many times I have been cart-sniped on a knife drop. More times than I’ve lost lotteries, that’s for sure! And it’s far more infuriating!

 

[Pompous]

It will be interesting to see if more Russian Lochsas do end up coming in future runs. Both in the description for the knife and at the show, Shirogorov employees were very candid about very high difficulty/complexity and scrap rate and implied there would NOT be future runs.

Looking back at previous collabs it's a mixed bag - we've seen 110KS, Russian Dr Death, and the RJM collabs be several runs/variants - but by contrast many of the Sinkevich collabs, the RFT, etc, were only the one run.

I certainly hope for more chances (though plain titanium/steel is always my favorite config for Shiro) - but the cynical part of me says why would they risk high scrap rates again when they can call the run complete and move on to the next thing? Especially with this run taking 2ish years of work to realize.

 

[crk1984]

New halloween! I have the hati halloween as well