THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread

[Gaston444]

Two newest additions. Voorhis and a Martin MCE II. Both are being stripped down for a trip to the local duracoat guy. This is my second Martin and can't speak enough to the quality and capabilities of these knives. Voorhis has a neat cap system on the outside of the tube. Can't wait to get them coated. 1st pic is of family before, subsequent is the new kids.View attachment 691812View attachment 691811View attachment 691813

Your attachments don't work for me, I get "contact the administrator": Could you just post them here?

Gaston

 

[Mark Knapp]

So, what is the coolest thing you ever saw inside a HH knife? Please don't feel compelled to say something you saw in one of my knives, that's not the reason for this thread.

I am thinking of providing a section of surgical tubing (by special request). It would take up some room but, if food gathering is your emphasis, surgical tubing would have lots of great uses. Sling shots, Hawaiian slings and lots of spring type snares and traps.

For many, food gathering is a fairly low priority however "sport survival" is getting to be really popular where extended trips of recreational survival are common. Food gathering can be of highest priority.

What have you seen?

 

[Gaston444]

Most expensive handle item for me is a 60 hours endurance (low setting) Muyshondt Maus Mk 1 flashlight ($140), with the battery isolated by tape ends to prevent power drain, but I'll concede a flashlight is more practical mounted more accessibly on the sheath, just not on my particular "inside the pants" carry Lile Mission...

A tube of gel crazy glue is pretty much a requirement as well, mainly to secure cord knots extra-tightly against unraveling, but it can also repair skin and clothing... But that is bulky for most inner handles, so aside the Cox, a tube of Gel glue would be sheath mounted... To mend clothing I also always try to put in a few safety pins in the handle...

I am about to try out dryer lint for fire-starting fuel, but in a sheath-mounted snus tin, not in the handle.

Gaston

 

[Mark Knapp]

Most expensive handle item for me is a 60 hours endurance (low setting) Muyshondt Maus Mk 1 flashlight ($140), with the battery isolated by tape ends to prevent power drain, but I'll concede a flashlight is more practical mounted more accessibly on the sheath, just not on my particular "inside the pants" carry Lile Mission...

A tube of gel crazy glue is pretty much a requirement as well, mainly to secure cord knots extra-tightly against unraveling, but it can also repair skin and clothing... But that is bulky for most inner handles, so aside the Cox, a tube of Gel glue would be sheath mounted... To mend clothing I also always try to put in a few safety pins in the handle...

I am about to try out dryer lint for fire-starting fuel, but in a sheath-mounted snus tin, not in the handle.

Gaston

Huh, Good stuff.

 

[TAH]

So, what is the coolest thing you ever saw inside a HH knife?

This ferro rod that screws into the buttcap to create a handle and the waxed cloth that can be used as fire starter or to protect other items in the handle.

All from the creative mind of Sam Wilson of Wilson Custom Knives. :thumbup:

 

[Mark Knapp]

This ferro rod that screws into the buttcap to create a handle and the waxed cloth that can be used as fire starter or to protect other items in the handle.

All from the creative mind of Sam Wilson of Wilson Custom Knives. :thumbup:

Yep, those are cool. I like them better when the rod is detachable like Sam's, it seems like if the rod was permanent in the butt cap (I think I've seen them like that somewhere), it would minimize what you could stuff in the handle.

 

[TAH]

I always thought this was a cool idea on this Colin Cox knife. I assume the washer is meant to hold the compass in place until it is needed. This way the compass can be stored in the buttcap, but isn't permanently mounted and can be easily removed when using the buttcap for pounding. Very clever. :thumbup:

 

[Mark Knapp]

I always thought this was a cool idea on this Colin Cox knife. I assume the washer is meant to hold the compass in place until it is needed. This way the compass can be stored in the buttcap, but isn't permanently mounted and can be easily removed when using the buttcap for pounding. Very clever. :thumbup:

I like that idea. I usable butt cap and a usable compass.

I have owned a saw shop for seventeen years, (it morphed into making knives full time) so I'm a bit of a saw snob. From a saw man's perspective, the geometry of the saw is counter-intuitive. For anyone that has used this kind of saw, where the body of the blade is thicker than the kerf the saw would cut, how do they work? I'm sure you guys have talked about saws before.

 

[robgmn]

I like that idea. I usable butt cap and a usable compass.

I have owned a saw shop for seventeen years, (it morphed into making knives full time) so I'm a bit of a saw snob. From a saw man's perspective, the geometry of the saw is counter-intuitive. For anyone that has used this kind of saw, where the body of the blade is thicker than the kerf the saw would cut, how do they work? I'm sure you guys have talked about saws before.

Not a saw guy, but I was trained to use the saw on a SAK to just cut a ring around a limb/branch/small tree and then snap it off at the ring, as opposed to using it to cut all the way through the wood.
If there were some stubborn spots, you would then attack them as needed.
The knife blade pictured would almost force that method.

 

[TAH]

I have owned a saw shop for seventeen years, (it morphed into making knives full time) so I'm a bit of a saw snob. From a saw man's perspective, the geometry of the saw is counter-intuitive. For anyone that has used this kind of saw, where the body of the blade is thicker than the kerf the saw would cut, how do they work? I'm sure you guys have talked about saws before.

The sawteeth on this Cox knife are similar to Randall sawteeth, which were designed to cut aircraft aluminum, not wood.

 

[Gaston444]

The saw above might notch bones, to help break them, but even that is sketchy at best...

The saw on mine is even worse, and would probably not even notch soft wood...:

These saw designs, except for being reversed, which is good to avoid entanglement, are all derived from the equally marginal Randall sawbacks, advertised as meant for helicopter skin... I think actual use on aluminium skin would find the Randall design sadly lacking...

The bevelled sawback is quite endemic to these things, and makes no sense at all...

Only full width teeth on a Full Flat Grind, the Lile style, really work well enough for 1" deep notches in wood (which is very good for a sawback, most others stopping at mere 1/4" notches: BMF, Buckmaster etc... The Parrish style choking at about 1/2"-3/4"...). The Lile out-performs the Parrish style because the Parrish has flat full width areas below the saw, on the blade sides, whose huge friction a Full Flat Grind Lile profile avoids...

Best sawback so far for me is the Voorhis style, which is basically an oversized Lile design: Good for nearly 2" straight cuts, but keeping limb diameter well below 3" is always critical for all sawbacks...

On the other hand, the Cox sawback below has narrow 2-3 mm "edges" on top of each narrow tooth, and works great when encountering hard knots as a "chopping edge" to chew up the knots easier(!): Not a saw at all...: Each tooth has a convex section, with a fairly blunt V-edge section on top...: At 50% of the chopping performance, a simpler plain double edge would have been much better, but it does "chew" knots without damage, and maybe is somewhat quieter...

Gaston

 

[Mark Knapp]

Yeah, I am afraid to say I agree with Gaston, not on all of what he said because I haven't done any testing. I have however made custom saws for lots of things and the configuration of the Cox for cutting aluminum or anything looks doubtful to me. I don't own one and can't test it but I have made my living using cutting tools and making cutting tools for the better part of my adult life.

Has anyone actually tried this knife on aluminum skin? I have some skin, but I don't have the knife, anyone want to send me one, a beat-up one, for some testing? I will refinish it afterward, with Duracoat, and send it back in better shape than I found it.

 

[Gaston444]

It would be interesting to test a Randall sawback: Many more people have one of those than have a Cox...

This is one with an unusually functional-looking sawback:

Notice each teeth is alternatively "bent" offset to one side, to alternate a broader cut path away from blade's side friction (which is how I am told real wood saws are done)...

Edge geometry is not quite there for me, but it definitely is an interesting sawback concept...

Apparently the best performing sawbacks for wood are the Martin Knives MCE-II style, which is basically an oversized "Lile" pattern on a similar Full Flat Grind blade...

A Parrish sawback mounted on a Full Flat Grind blade would be a first, and would really be interesting to see... The Martin Knives "Apparo" concept of a large fuller to reduce side friction is clever, but only if it is combined with a deep Sabre Hollow Grind: Using a Sabre Flat Grind kind of misses the point...

Cutting on the push is inferior to the pull, no matter what is claimed about this, but I still generally prefer a "push" saw to nullify the "entanglement" factor... For a soldier's knife, a push stroke saw is a must to ensure repeat stabbings... Other than that, I never found any great downsides to sawbacks, no matter how ineffective the design, except when they weaken the point...: Even the alternating slant TOPS design I found quite acceptable in performance, being about on par with a Parrish-style saw at 1/2"-3/4":

Gaston

 

[Mark Knapp]

It would be interesting to test a Randall sawback: Many more people have one of those than have a Cox...

This is one with an unusually functional-looking sawback:

Notice each teeth is alternatively "bent" offset to one side, to alternate a broader cut path away from blade's side friction (which is how I am told real wood saws are done)...

Edge geometry is not quite there for me, but it definitely is an interesting sawback concept...

Apparently the best performing sawbacks for wood are the Martin Knives MCE-II style, which is basically an oversized "Lile" pattern on a similar Full Flat Grind blade...

A Parrish sawback mounted on a Full Flat Grind blade would be a first, and would really be interesting to see... The Martin Knives "Apparo" concept of a large fuller to reduce side friction is clever, but only if it is combined with a deep Sabre Hollow Grind: Using a Sabre Flat Grind kind of misses the point...

Cutting on the push is inferior to the pull, no matter what is claimed about this, but I still generally prefer a "push" saw to nullify the "entanglement" factor... For a soldier's knife, a push stroke saw is a must to ensure repeat stabbings... Other than that, I never found any great downsides to sawbacks, no matter how ineffective the design, except when they weaken the point...: Even the alternating slant TOPS design I found quite acceptable in performance, being about on par with a Parrish-style saw at 1/2"-3/4":

Gaston

I agree, your first picture shows a much better saw than many I have seen (as do all the knives you've shown). I don't care for that particular knife but the saw is good. When the teeth are "bent" in alternate directions it's called "set". The "cut path" is the "kerf". In order for a saw to cut, it needs clearance for the body of the blade to pass through the material being cut, the kerf needs to be wider than the body of the blade. I have seen several knives with working saws, but I think most of the rest are put on blades to make them more appealing visually but in reality they don't work very well.

Personally, I don't think a knife needs to have a saw to be a good choice for a survival knife but if it's going to have a saw, the saw should work.

I also think that the same thing that makes a "pull" saw a bad choice for a tactical knife, makes a push saw a bad choice for a tactical knife. IE, the teeth on a pull saw make it harder to extract (entangle) The same teeth pointed the other way on a push saw could hang up on clothing, body armor etc. and make it very unsuitable for penetration. I would not choose a knife with a saw back for tactical use, serrations yes, saw teeth no. Full disclosure here, I have never been in a tactical situation myself. I have worked closely with solders and tac-ops trainers, teeth are a bad idea in these situations.

Good examples, thanks.

 

[TAH]

IMO, this SOG appears to have one of the best designed saws ever put on a knife. I do not own this knife, but have read several good reviews regarding the saw's performance. Apparently, the teeth are wicked sharp on a full flat grind, so the blade doesn't bind. Here is one of those reviews: LINK

 

[Mark Knapp]

IMO, this SOG appears to have one of the best designed saws ever put on a knife. I do not own this knife, but have read several good reviews regarding the saw's performance. Apparently, the teeth are wicked sharp on a full flat grind, so the blade doesn't bind. Here is one of those reviews: LINK

Now that's a saw. I have a couple of knives with that kind of grind (not made by me).

 

[robgmn]

This may be too far out there, but working with a table saw last night (that, of course died as I'm ripping the last row of flooring planks I'm installing. Arrggghhh!) made me wonder: what about creating a knife blade back edge to mimic the one below?
Time consuming and expensive, but custom work isn't expected to be cheap!

 

[Gaston444]

This may be too far out there, but working with a table saw last night (that, of course died as I'm ripping the last row of flooring planks I'm installing. Arrggghhh!) made me wonder: what about creating a knife blade back edge to mimic the one below?
Time consuming and expensive, but custom work isn't expected to be cheap!

Isn't this a little like the TOPS alternating slant design?

Gaston

 

[Mark Knapp]

This may be too far out there, but working with a table saw last night (that, of course died as I'm ripping the last row of flooring planks I'm installing. Arrggghhh!) made me wonder: what about creating a knife blade back edge to mimic the one below?
Time consuming and expensive, but custom work isn't expected to be cheap!

Isn't this a little like the TOPS alternating slant design?

Gaston

Yes, this is a carbide tip, alternate top bevel (ATB). Very similar to the Tops with better body clearance.

 

[TAH]

It would be interesting to test a Randall sawback...

I'm a die hard Randall enthusiast and believer, but I have also questioned how effective the #18 saw would be on aircraft aluminum, especially the knives that end up with fewer/larger teeth. It just seems like they would get hung up easily.