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Very nice Squirrel the Lile knives are very sweet, I had a Sly2 from Lile back in the 80s and loved it.
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THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread
- Thread starter Sam Wilson
- Start date
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I'm so glad there's guys out there loving these HH knives, there's so many bad things said about them but us hardcore hh guys know if its built right we are the real winners
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I guess Liles are hard to keep ownership of, in the long run, because they tie up so much money... 
The Lile Rambo knives are still among the best survival knives ever designed, in my opinion, being one of the few with really fuctional sawteeths for wood.
The only thing I never liked with them (from a functional point of view) is that a few teeths continued into the bowie clip, which does look good, but is non-functional (in the 80s I thought the ultimate survival knife was the Timberline SA, in part precisely because it didn't do that). For a movie, the few extra teeths were definitely worth the slight "practical" compromise... For those who don't know, the First Blood knife has a very peculiar clip grind design that makes for a much lighter "stepped" point compared to most other bowie clip grinds (incuding the Sly II, if memory serves): The Part II "Mission" has a more conventional clip grind that is much blade-heavier. I still think the first knife is sleeker looking, and the most elegant hollow handle of them all...
It's amazing to think this was the first movie to have a survival knife as a major element, despite the Randall model 18 having been around for decades, and they got so much right, including the movie knife and its many uses (my favourite parts is its use in the abandoned mine)... This despite the fact that the book is so different, and nowhere near as good as the movie, in my opinion... The knife was designed specifically for the movie, and yet 33 years on is still a benchmark of function and elegance: I think it will likely never be topped... Even the movie itself was excellent on so many levels (it played on tv recently, and I was reminded how it really hasn't aged at all, except maybe for the scene where Trautman is so forcefully telling the cops to back off)... It was the first I ever heard of homeless veterans... Compare it to the "The Hunted" of 2003, and note how everything is wrong in that movie: Motivations so implausible they are too embarrassing to write... Not to mention the knife-forging/fighting scenes...
I saw a Parrish in mint condition on ebay recently go for a mere $800 US on auction... This is pretty much half price, and must have been due to the post Christmas cash crunch: Unfortunately I was spent out because of my two Randalls... AArgh... Oh well, the Parrish is tempered softer at around 55, I keep telling myself...
Speaking of 80s nostalgia, I just got my Neeley SA9 at a very low price of $480: It is an even more spectacular 9.5" variant of the 7.5" Timberline SA I used to dream about 30 years ago (I still vividly remember seeing one in Paris, for something equivalent to $800-1000 today)... This is the most precisely ground fixed blade knife I have ever owned, even more precisely ground than my Chris Reeves Jereboam... The secondary grind lines are perfectly symmetrical, which I don't think I have ever seen on a large saber ground fixed blade: Even the Chris Reeves is far from having perfect symmetry on the secondary grind lines (it does in the clip)... The Neeley leather sheath is just mind-blowing: The best leather sheath ever... I'll post pics of that and the re-painted Randall when they come in. On the downside, the SA9, like the older SA, is just as mind-boggingly dull as the Apparo was: It took me two days to make something sharp out of the SA9: I expected 3-4 days, but coarse diamond hones are really a marvel... Be warned...
Gaston
The Lile Rambo knives are still among the best survival knives ever designed, in my opinion, being one of the few with really fuctional sawteeths for wood.
The only thing I never liked with them (from a functional point of view) is that a few teeths continued into the bowie clip, which does look good, but is non-functional (in the 80s I thought the ultimate survival knife was the Timberline SA, in part precisely because it didn't do that). For a movie, the few extra teeths were definitely worth the slight "practical" compromise... For those who don't know, the First Blood knife has a very peculiar clip grind design that makes for a much lighter "stepped" point compared to most other bowie clip grinds (incuding the Sly II, if memory serves): The Part II "Mission" has a more conventional clip grind that is much blade-heavier. I still think the first knife is sleeker looking, and the most elegant hollow handle of them all...
It's amazing to think this was the first movie to have a survival knife as a major element, despite the Randall model 18 having been around for decades, and they got so much right, including the movie knife and its many uses (my favourite parts is its use in the abandoned mine)... This despite the fact that the book is so different, and nowhere near as good as the movie, in my opinion... The knife was designed specifically for the movie, and yet 33 years on is still a benchmark of function and elegance: I think it will likely never be topped... Even the movie itself was excellent on so many levels (it played on tv recently, and I was reminded how it really hasn't aged at all, except maybe for the scene where Trautman is so forcefully telling the cops to back off)... It was the first I ever heard of homeless veterans... Compare it to the "The Hunted" of 2003, and note how everything is wrong in that movie: Motivations so implausible they are too embarrassing to write... Not to mention the knife-forging/fighting scenes...
I saw a Parrish in mint condition on ebay recently go for a mere $800 US on auction... This is pretty much half price, and must have been due to the post Christmas cash crunch: Unfortunately I was spent out because of my two Randalls... AArgh... Oh well, the Parrish is tempered softer at around 55, I keep telling myself...
Speaking of 80s nostalgia, I just got my Neeley SA9 at a very low price of $480: It is an even more spectacular 9.5" variant of the 7.5" Timberline SA I used to dream about 30 years ago (I still vividly remember seeing one in Paris, for something equivalent to $800-1000 today)... This is the most precisely ground fixed blade knife I have ever owned, even more precisely ground than my Chris Reeves Jereboam... The secondary grind lines are perfectly symmetrical, which I don't think I have ever seen on a large saber ground fixed blade: Even the Chris Reeves is far from having perfect symmetry on the secondary grind lines (it does in the clip)... The Neeley leather sheath is just mind-blowing: The best leather sheath ever... I'll post pics of that and the re-painted Randall when they come in. On the downside, the SA9, like the older SA, is just as mind-boggingly dull as the Apparo was: It took me two days to make something sharp out of the SA9: I expected 3-4 days, but coarse diamond hones are really a marvel... Be warned...
Gaston
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2001
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- 6,135
According to Lile, the "sawteeth" on the clip were designed to act as barbs to hold fish or other small game if the knife was converted to a spear or gig.
After all these years, First Blood is still in my top five movies of all time, but do you remember a movie called Ruckus that came out one year before First Blood? I've never seen it, but I've heard it is very good. Apparently, Dirk Benedict's character uses a Buck 110 to perform survival skills throughout the movie.
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I'd still have the Lile knife if some scum sucking pig hadn't robbed my house. That was 25 or so years ago I'm still pissed.
The front teeth also act as a rake to clean out the saw cutting on wood when your sawing. The do make a decent frog gig as well. However never stick something large with one its hard to get the blade back out.
The front teeth also act as a rake to clean out the saw cutting on wood when your sawing. The do make a decent frog gig as well. However never stick something large with one its hard to get the blade back out.
Ouch, a $2000+ knife stolen?! That sucks!
It's interesting to hear the justifications for the saw teeths of the clip: The spear fishing idea does suddenly reveal to me the intent behind the point design: It absolutely make sense I realize now...: You remember the weird First Blood clip point grind which I described as thinning the blade abruptly? I now think it is related to the fish barbs: You had to thin abruptly the forward part of the blade for it to have any chance to be used, effectively, as a stream fish spear: Look down from above on an accurate First Blood, and you will see it goes abruptly from the full 6+ mm (0.25") thickness to 3mm (1/8") at the clip (unlike the later "Mission"): This was undoubtely intentional to make stabbing fish more successful...
I realize now that it was the "Mission" that has the less purpose-driven clip barbs...: The broad, heavily curved, full thickness clip is obviously less functional for fishing purposes...
For sticking "large" things, I think the best way to incorporate a sawback for "combat" is to have a large "step" that keeps the blade from "sinking" past the clip: Something like the Crain or Buckmaster design for instance, which are distinctive and look good as well...
My objection to sharp points on Survival Knives is that they rob mass at the tip for chopping, and wood chopping with a knife is already quite marginal in my opinion... I realize now (from examining the sharp-pointed Al Mar "Special Warfare", with its huge 5.5" long handle) that the solution, short of a flared squarish point like the "Hellion", might be to put on a very long handle that can be held far back towards the pommel...
Come to think of it, the one hollow handle knife that I can come up with that has a sharp deeply stepped tip, and an extra long handle, is the Jack Crain "Life Support System"! I think the purpose behind the design is becoming apparent to me now...
I have never heard of the movie "Ruckus": I'll have to look it up.
Gaston
It's interesting to hear the justifications for the saw teeths of the clip: The spear fishing idea does suddenly reveal to me the intent behind the point design: It absolutely make sense I realize now...: You remember the weird First Blood clip point grind which I described as thinning the blade abruptly? I now think it is related to the fish barbs: You had to thin abruptly the forward part of the blade for it to have any chance to be used, effectively, as a stream fish spear: Look down from above on an accurate First Blood, and you will see it goes abruptly from the full 6+ mm (0.25") thickness to 3mm (1/8") at the clip (unlike the later "Mission"): This was undoubtely intentional to make stabbing fish more successful...
I realize now that it was the "Mission" that has the less purpose-driven clip barbs...: The broad, heavily curved, full thickness clip is obviously less functional for fishing purposes...
For sticking "large" things, I think the best way to incorporate a sawback for "combat" is to have a large "step" that keeps the blade from "sinking" past the clip: Something like the Crain or Buckmaster design for instance, which are distinctive and look good as well...
My objection to sharp points on Survival Knives is that they rob mass at the tip for chopping, and wood chopping with a knife is already quite marginal in my opinion... I realize now (from examining the sharp-pointed Al Mar "Special Warfare", with its huge 5.5" long handle) that the solution, short of a flared squarish point like the "Hellion", might be to put on a very long handle that can be held far back towards the pommel...
Come to think of it, the one hollow handle knife that I can come up with that has a sharp deeply stepped tip, and an extra long handle, is the Jack Crain "Life Support System"! I think the purpose behind the design is becoming apparent to me now...
I have never heard of the movie "Ruckus": I'll have to look it up.
Gaston
Last edited:
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- Jul 6, 2007
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- 463
Just took delivery of a new Martin SURV9, and it is a beauty. Can't wait to do a shakedown hike. I opted for the combo sheath, not really knowing what it was. Now I know. Unfortunately, I don't quite know what I'm supposed to accessorize it with, combo-wise.
That caused me to haul out the camera, and remembered I hadn't memorialized the new Wilson SAFE, with it's custom Altoids sheath. It has already been on a few trips, and some quality time at the bench getting the edge just right. A very, very useful knife... no complaints at all. I do find the guard just a tad too big, but it hasn't inhibited performance at all. It's shown here next to the Chris Reeve Shadow IV that is my all-in-one package right now (with compartments for fire steel, Altoids tin and Leatherman).
And then I decided, since the camera was out, to take a picture of all of my hollow handled keepers, as the group stands today. Martin SURV9, Wall, two CRK Shadows and the Wilson.
A hollow handled knife for every occasion.
That caused me to haul out the camera, and remembered I hadn't memorialized the new Wilson SAFE, with it's custom Altoids sheath. It has already been on a few trips, and some quality time at the bench getting the edge just right. A very, very useful knife... no complaints at all. I do find the guard just a tad too big, but it hasn't inhibited performance at all. It's shown here next to the Chris Reeve Shadow IV that is my all-in-one package right now (with compartments for fire steel, Altoids tin and Leatherman).
And then I decided, since the camera was out, to take a picture of all of my hollow handled keepers, as the group stands today. Martin SURV9, Wall, two CRK Shadows and the Wilson.
A hollow handled knife for every occasion.
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Now I do remember Ruckus I saw it a couple of times back when it came out. It was very well done and interesting.
The Lile that was stolen seems like I paid either 695 or 795 for it back when I bought it I just don't remember for sure. I do know for a fact that if you stick one 2/3rds of the way into a hog your going to have a hell of a fight. Worst butt kicking I ever got. Except for a giant toad when I was about 12 that had obviously taken Kung fu lessons. My cousin and I grabbed a leg each and he proceeded to kick the living crap out of us. I had a black eye and split lip and my cousin looked like someone when to town on his face with a bat.
Guns those are all great looking knives, the martin sheath he has pouches that fit on the straps for different things. Just look on his website. I'd rig a altoids tin pouch on there myself and a sharpener.
The Lile that was stolen seems like I paid either 695 or 795 for it back when I bought it I just don't remember for sure. I do know for a fact that if you stick one 2/3rds of the way into a hog your going to have a hell of a fight. Worst butt kicking I ever got. Except for a giant toad when I was about 12 that had obviously taken Kung fu lessons. My cousin and I grabbed a leg each and he proceeded to kick the living crap out of us. I had a black eye and split lip and my cousin looked like someone when to town on his face with a bat.
Guns those are all great looking knives, the martin sheath he has pouches that fit on the straps for different things. Just look on his website. I'd rig a altoids tin pouch on there myself and a sharpener.
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I sure can't find them on the website. Can you post a URL?
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Here you go Guns
http://www.martinknives.com/AvailableTacticalKnives.html
TAH I swear to god that frog was one tough mother. We pulled into my uncles road and he stopped and said hey look at that huge frog, you boys hop out and get him and we will have frog legs. Yeah the frog got away and we were dripping blood and whimpering about 10 seconds later. Funny as hell now, and my uncle was just about to have a stroke he was laughing so hard. Damn that frog was tough.
http://www.martinknives.com/AvailableTacticalKnives.html
TAH I swear to god that frog was one tough mother. We pulled into my uncles road and he stopped and said hey look at that huge frog, you boys hop out and get him and we will have frog legs. Yeah the frog got away and we were dripping blood and whimpering about 10 seconds later. Funny as hell now, and my uncle was just about to have a stroke he was laughing so hard. Damn that frog was tough.
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Well Guns I followed that link I'm not sure if Ed is still making those or not, you'd have to email and ask I guess.
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Good stuff, Dave. Thanks for the laugh! From the looks of your knife collection, if you ever meet up with that frog again, this time you will have the upper hand. Damn frogs. Can't trust'em.
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Thanks, will do.
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I've had this for a while, but I've been too busy in enjoying it to write it up. Time to write it up. Sam Wilson told (twice) to be brutally honest... to be brutally honest, I love this knife/system. It is a great knife. A camping, hunting, survival knife for real conditions.
Wilson SAFE Review
The Knife: Wilson S.A.F.E., CPM 154.
Disclaimer: all the pictures are "before". I don't have any pictures using it because, well, I was too busy using it, and I don't understand how to work a Go-Pro or other POV camera.
About me: while I have been trained by Uncle Sam and friends to do interesting things in interesting places, I am not Rambo. I am an ex-mountain guide, a hunter, a fisherman, a scoutmaster, a hiker, and a dad. My usual knife is a BCNW O-1, an Adventure Sworn Classic, or one of my relative's puukkos, but I have about 50 knives that make guest appearances. I have been through many survival courses eating bugs and snakes, but still prefer to camp with fresh ground coffee and tasty food, carefully made.
Location of testing: Alaska, the last frontier, with guest appearances in Montana, North Dakota, and California.
What did it do: meal preparation in the house, car camping, backpacking and hiking; field dressing and skinning of a deer and a rabbit; filleting of a few salmon; fire building extraordinaire, including feather sticks, and building a bow drill; breaking down cardboard boxes (harder on a blade than you would think); taking out a bunch of splinters and spines from a most unfortunate encounter while off-trail; and building shelters with a bunch of boy scouts.
What it did not do: chopping down trees, batoning 6 rounds, opening crates and other such destructive testing.
Things I would not change:
Things I did change:
Things I would change:
Bottom line, one of the best knives I have. It was always previously in the pack for testing, but it has earned it's place on my belt. Thank you, Sam Wilson.
Wilson SAFE Review
The Knife: Wilson S.A.F.E., CPM 154.
Disclaimer: all the pictures are "before". I don't have any pictures using it because, well, I was too busy using it, and I don't understand how to work a Go-Pro or other POV camera.
About me: while I have been trained by Uncle Sam and friends to do interesting things in interesting places, I am not Rambo. I am an ex-mountain guide, a hunter, a fisherman, a scoutmaster, a hiker, and a dad. My usual knife is a BCNW O-1, an Adventure Sworn Classic, or one of my relative's puukkos, but I have about 50 knives that make guest appearances. I have been through many survival courses eating bugs and snakes, but still prefer to camp with fresh ground coffee and tasty food, carefully made.
Location of testing: Alaska, the last frontier, with guest appearances in Montana, North Dakota, and California.
What did it do: meal preparation in the house, car camping, backpacking and hiking; field dressing and skinning of a deer and a rabbit; filleting of a few salmon; fire building extraordinaire, including feather sticks, and building a bow drill; breaking down cardboard boxes (harder on a blade than you would think); taking out a bunch of splinters and spines from a most unfortunate encounter while off-trail; and building shelters with a bunch of boy scouts.
What it did not do: chopping down trees, batoning 6 rounds, opening crates and other such destructive testing.
Things I would not change:
- Blade shape. The drop point is just right. The tip worked as a drill nicely. The drop was just enough that I didnt puncture the gut of the deer I cleaned. There was enough sweep for skinning, though the guard got in the way (see below).
- The steel. I love this stuff. Its gone a week at a time with just stropping. I sharpened it just once when I reprofiled it (see below).
- Overall dimensions. The handle was big enough for my paws, and the blade length was just right for usage. It probably wouldnt baton 6 wood, but I never baton 6 wood. I dont even baton 2 wood. It batons 1 wood just fine.
- Hollow handle. I like the size. Just enough for supplies for an emergency fire. The fire steel is fine, though I am sloppy enough to prefer a longer steel for casual use. This one is perfect, though, for emergencies. I havent used the sharpening steel, though. Looks kind of weird, but I guess it probably works. The o-ring keeps things dry up to 30 minutes under water, including very sensitive tinder.
- The 90 degree spine. Lights off fire steels just fine. I do like the ice skate spine of L. T. Wright knives, but this one works.
- The cord wrap. A good, positive hold. Perfect would be if it were made of a material like jute, but this works. I havent unraveled it to use it to build a shelter, but it should work. I would like to know how he does it without any twists just curious. Also, it does seem to soak up blood, fat and such, and takes forever to clean but I still like it.
- The ricasso or choil. I can never keep them straight. Anyway, they make the sharpening or stropping so clean.
Things I did change:
- Added jute twine and a needle to the hollow handle cache.
- Repacked the tin with fishing gear.
- Re-profiled the edge (see below).
Things I would change:
- Lanyard hole. I really like lanyards. Dangle while skinning. Retention when at high angles. A little extra cordage. I like them. A lanyard hole in the cap would be a good start, and Im having one added shortly. Having one or two in the top of the guard would be nice, too, for positive grip and lashing to a spear (which Ive never needed but really looks cool).
- The guard. Its too big. Gets in the way for skinning. I like the asymmetry, but I would love it half as big up, down, and to the side. But Im a puukko guy, so I start at no guard and work up from there.
- The guard. Its too sharp. There is no need for 90 degree edges on the guard, it just hurts the hand. It really hurts when I carve wood, make feather sticks, etc. Yeah, I shouldnt choke up on the knife so much, but I do. I will take a file to the edges, soon.
- Blade/edge thickness. Thinning the edge down and re-setting the edge to 18 degrees per side, it slices like a dream. Now, it sliced well before, but a little thinning makes it a dream. Tomatoes and onions in the kitchen type slicing. Not quite up there with a Japanese kitchen knife, but respectable. Now, Ill be honest, I think it is thinned a little too much. It will roll a little when I cut something hard, think hardwood or bone. But there should be room to set the edge back not by me, of course, but by someone who actually knows what hes doing.
- The spine. Jimping. I love it. Particularly for skinning, but also for detail cuts. I think Im going to get out my checkering file, and put in some jimping about halfway down the blade, right where the drop breaks.
- The sheath attachment. I love the sheath, dont get me wrong. This is really picky. But I often attach a knife sheath to my shoulder strap or to the side of the pack, and I would love if there were a longer strap in the back with snaps at the top AND the bottom of the sheath. It would then fit in MOLLE points, high ride, or upside down on my shoulder strap.
Bottom line, one of the best knives I have. It was always previously in the pack for testing, but it has earned it's place on my belt. Thank you, Sam Wilson.