THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread

The edge bevel is about 3/32 thick if I'm thinking what you are about that measurement. Blade overall is 5/16" thick. I got the deal I did on the knife due to a seller disclosed high grind line. Edge angle is probably shallower than most. I've been evening out the edge with about two hours on Arkansas and then water stones. 20- degree ish.


Gaston444 said:
These look decently made: Be advised one of the obvious Black Starr inaccuracies to the original Liles, on the Black Starr "Mission", is that the ricasso's plunge line is 90°, whereas it should lean forward a little: Your First Blood appears closer...

Can you measure how thick is the edge bevel at its base? If you can guess the edge angle that would be great.

Gaston
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guns_and_labs said:
Nowadays I usually have four or five knives that I'm demo'ing... Not exactly the poster boy for traveling light... I'm sure I have enough blades to sink the canoe.
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LOL, Sorry, the first thing that came into my warped mind was some Officer saying "We believe he could have swam to shore safely, when the canoe tipped over, but he was weighed down by 23 knives" :)
 
yasuru said:
The edge bevel is about 3/32 thick if I'm thinking what you are about that measurement. Blade overall is 5/16" thick. I got the deal I did on the knife due to a seller disclosed high grind line. Edge angle is probably shallower than most. I've been evening out the edge with about two hours on Arkansas and then water stones. 20- degree ish.
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3/32 is 0.093", vs my ideal of 0.020"... Or 2.3 mm vs a Randall at 0.5 mm... Even the TOPS Hellion at 1.8 mm or Neeley SA9 at 1.6 mm are much thinner at the edge bevel than 2.3 mm... That seems kind of not good... I wonder if this is typical of Survival Knives that they have such thick edges? I have a feeling the Liles might have been thinner at the edge...

Gaston
 
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CS really should continue the mini Bushman. Something simple like a wine cork makes an decent impromptu handle bung.
 
Gaston444 said:
"You can learn a lot from history. Look at almost any point in history since the advent of steel, and examine what was carried by those who lived close to nature. The closer they were to the environment, the bigger the blades they carried."
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I think whoever made that statement could use a history lesson or two themselves. Small edge tools have been the rule, not the exception for at least 2 million years. The larger the blade, the higher the likelyhood it's purpose is "chopping", but as a weapon. Until the advent of the bessemer process in the 19th century making steel more available and affordable do you start seeing large blades for agriculture and war. Those who lived closest to nature, let's say native americans, thrived for 12,000 years until seeing a steel tradeknife from the west.
 
I think he did say and meant "since the widespread advent of steel": This would not include much of pre-19th century times, or any primitive stone-age tribe useage...

The fact that most people living very close to nature today -mostly in tropical regions-, all use large thin steel blades, with great creativity to accomplish small delicate tasks (instead of resorting to small knives), kind of supports his point... They are still big blades, even if thin machetes, parang and bolos are not the most suitable for northern woods, and so up in northern climes thicker blades or axes were preferred. When the Bowie knife craze came about, in the very early 19th century -Jim Bowie dying in 1836- apparently the Bowie Knife vogue was so intense that a journalist noted "every available scrap of steel seems to be converted into a bowie knife". The "fad" lasted the entire century, until the very end of "taming" the West... I've seen 19th century American bowies made of 1/2" stock, in case you think they were all thin kitchen-type knives, and what was amazing is that it was not decorated to be a wall hanger... Many big knives of course were of a much more modest 1/8" stock in those days, but not all of them by far, and 1/8" can still make a fairly heavy-duty chopping knife... That they were typically used as weapons/intimidation when axes where available is likely, and the generally thinner stock does indicate chopping large heavy wood was not often seen as a suitable task for knives, even large ones... Today we go out on foot in the woods, mostly for diversion, and not on horses for livelihood, and quite frankly, despite owning a Gerber Hatchet with a thermoplastic handle, rather than walk with that I'd rather stay home...

It is true that today with tents we don't have to mow down trees for shelter when camping, so big knives are more of an "insurance" for when we don't have a tent, in case something unexpected happens and we are not prepared, a yet still have a large knife: It's the whole idea of a Survival Knife...

Just this past Winter, in early March when a mild day made me think I could bike way, way out, having my "biggish" Randall Model 14 with me has proved invaluable to me to break into a shed after my bike broke down, and the windchill rose to -20° C... I probably wouldn't have died mind you, but I had lots of things to do that week, and what the knife did for me that night is something I truly will never forget (at the cost of two very small chips and a few slight edge bends, and a lot of scratches I hope Razoredgeknives will buff out)... It's not exactly chopping wood I'll admit, but I did have a small saw with me, and without the knife to carve a hole and then pry out that first very thick, tough plank out, any saw would have been utterly useless, as would have the poor leverage of a small knife...

The point is that of course a small knife is sufficient for almost all uses, but you don't always know in advance what the uses will be, so aside from looking silly, a few extra inches of blade/ounces is a small price to pay for this kind of insurance. After this Winter I don't mind looking silly anymore...

Gaston
 
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Gaston444 said:
I think he did say and meant "since the widespread advent of steel": This would not include much of pre-19th century times, or any primitive stone-age tribe useage...

The fact that most people living very close to nature today...

Gaston
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Here's the thing: Carry whatever you want. There is no need to explain it, or back it up with some website or whatever. If you like big knives, carry big knives. If you like smaller knives, carry smaller knives. Who cares? This is just like the point on where knives should balance. If you prefer blade heavy knives, great. Carry a blade heavy knife. That's YOUR preference, and YOUR opinion. But the majority of people I have spoken with and seen don't usually want a blade heavy knife. That's fine, too. That's THEIR opinion. They get to carry what they want. Don't worry so much about convincing everyone else and just do what you want.

Smaller blades are very popular for a number of reasons, including they're lighter, more nimble, don't cause as much fatigue in use, and in general, can do most anything a big blade can do around camp until you get into chopping. Additionally, as was brought out earlier, there's a pretty big difference between "survival" and bushcraft or woodcraft or whatever it's called at the moment. Survival type blades, as you well know, tend to be geared to harder use so they wont break or fail when that's all you may have, and try to accomplish a number of different tasks in a "survival scenario." A bushcraft/woodcraft type knife is almost the opposite, it is a much more specialized knife designed to employ/practice those bushcraft/wilderness living type skills, a large number of which require whittling and making more precise cuts.

So to recap: Carry whatever you want. Enjoy it. Take pictures of it in use and show them off. Have a great time in the woods or wherever you use your knives. Others will do the same.
 
Good to see you post Sam its been a while, hope everything is going well for you.

We have had so much rain this year its been unreal compared to the drought of the last several years. Took a hike down my creek to see how it was doing,

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Looking very nice, upstream from there is where I hunt hogs
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This is the view from my back porch across my back pasture, those doe have been visiting every evening. Sometimes a buck follows them out.
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cricketdave said:
Good to see you post Sam its been a while, hope everything is going well for you.
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Thanks Dave, glad to be back in here. Just been very busy, and have been trying to get caught up on things. Great pics, by the way.

We've discussed numerous times in the thread about using the buttcap of the knife to hammer/pound with. (No, this isn't leading to a discussion of whether the compass should be in the buttcap or not, Dave. :D:D) I am curious as to whether many here use it for that purpose or not. If not, why not, other than maybe not having a reason to. I'm more interested in what reasons made you decide not to use it in that manner. And for those that have and do use it to pound with, what have been your results? Obviously if its an aluminum buttcap, there will be some scratching or marring, and possibly gouging, depending on what was being hammered. But what was the extent of the damage, and did you care?
 
Really i more often just use a rock to hammer stuff with, I have used the butt a few times but I'd rather use something else. I don't recall ever having a hollow handle knife with an aluminum butt cap, seems like i had a fixed blade with one and did hammer something, what I can't remember. I do remember it was gouged up and eventually came loose, seems like it was a kabar fixed blade of some kind with a stacked leather handle and aluminum buttcap. Its been probably 40 years though so I just don't really remember specifics.
 
What are the buttcaps made out of on the knives you have, then? I was under the impression that most makers (me included) used an aluminum buttcap. The Timberlines used steel, and Randall uses brass, but I thought most others used aluminum. Am I mistaken?
 
Sam Wilson said:
What are the buttcaps made out of on the knives you have, then? I was under the impression that most makers (me included) used an aluminum buttcap. The Timberlines used steel, and Randall uses brass, but I thought most others used aluminum. Am I mistaken?
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My Wall has an aluminum buttcap. Haven't pounded on anything with it yet. :(
 
bowie69 said:
My Wall has an aluminum buttcap. Haven't pounded on anything with it yet. :(
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Bowie, I don't use any of mine as a hammer regularly either. However, I have driven in tent stakes and cracked nuts and things like that with both mine and my Reeve, and no real damage, as the stakes were aluminum also. There were a couple of times I hit rocks inadvertently, and that put some small gouges in the cap. I just ground the cap down a little bit, and that took care of it.

I would think brass would fare a little better, I would like to see somebody with a Randall or something chime In.
 
Yep your right don't know why I didn't think of that, they are aluminum and show wear. I've cracked a few nuts but haven't driven any tent stakes though since I'm a pure hammock guy these days. I know I hammered with the buck master but it was steel, I don't remember hammering anything with the Lile. The martins have kind of a skull crusher on top for a lanyard so I haven't really whacked anything with them.
 
cricketdave said:
Yep your right don't know why I didn't think of that, they are aluminum and show wear. I've cracked a few nuts but haven't driven any tent stakes though since I'm a pure hammock guy these days. I know I hammered with the buck master but it was steel, I don't remember hammering anything with the Lile. The martins have kind of a skull crusher on top for a lanyard so I haven't really whacked anything with them.
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That's alright Dave, you're from Texas, I won't hold it against you. :D That's been pretty much my experience, also. I use it occasionally in that capacity, but not a regular thing. Even under light use and getting tossed around camp, aluminum caps are going to show wear after awhile, at least the way I use my knives.

Which doesn't bother me at all, as to me the benefits in both weight/balance and economy over a steel buttcap are worth it. Brass is a probably a good tradeoff. I was curious what others thought, as I have had several requests for a steel buttcap, as the owners would like to be able to hammer with it. I wondered what everybody in the thread did.

Bear Claw Chris Lappe said:
I suspect a previous owner used the buttcap on my Randall 18 for a hammer. :)

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I gotta say, that's pretty cool, Bear Claw. Battle scars just look neat on a Randall, and now you don't have to worry about dinging it up yourself. I take it that's a user?
 
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