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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread
- Thread starter Sam Wilson
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2015
- Messages
- 5
How do you guys make the handles, or do you just buy them from somewhere?
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2008
- Messages
- 5,548
Most guys make them from stainless tubing, cut to length, threaded or however each individual attaches the blade. There have been a couple of companies that sold them pre cut and threaded. Usa blades I think was one that did.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2001
- Messages
- 6,135
yes Jim is correct. 
Tom I think that is a good, old style compass. I had a fellow offer me over a $100 for it. He would not discuss why he wanted it. I believe he knew something I didn't.
The fact that it was found in a quonset hut in Little Creek Va., convinces me it definitely was used by Team members at some point in time. It is very accurate and compliments a survival knife very well. I like it too.
Tom I think that is a good, old style compass. I had a fellow offer me over a $100 for it. He would not discuss why he wanted it. I believe he knew something I didn't.The fact that it was found in a quonset hut in Little Creek Va., convinces me it definitely was used by Team members at some point in time. It is very accurate and compliments a survival knife very well. I like it too.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2015
- Messages
- 5
oh ok thanks
Sam Wilson
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2012
- Messages
- 3,043
Sam Wilson
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2012
- Messages
- 3,043
Sam Wilson
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2012
- Messages
- 3,043
Thanks Mick. :thumbup:
Sam Wilson
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2012
- Messages
- 3,043
Thank you very much, Ian. I understand exactly what you mean. I wanted to put a little more "combat" style in this one, as opposed to the bushcraft angle with the original SAFE knife. I appreciate the compliments.
Sam :thumbup:
Sam :thumbup:
I've had recently quite a few hollow handles coming back from various fixes from Josh at RazorEdgeKnives...: The Lile Sly II had its teeths "dipped" since they were decorative (great work by Josh), and the blade was fully re-ground from 0.043" to 0.020" at the edge or less. The Andrew Clifford was also fully re-ground from 0.045" to 0.020". Both were Cerakoated in gray.
The Lile "Mission" finally accepted paint but caused a lot of trouble with oil "sweating" from the guard": Finally it "sweated" over the paint so it was OK in the end...
I also got a new knife, a huge 10.4" Colin Cox, in part because I thought the very nice leather sheath might work better for the RJ Martin "Blackbird", which was being scratched to hell from its Kydex sheath: Why Kydex is popular I'll never understand, but the idea worked, and I to my surprise I found a proper sheath for the Colin Cox... The Cox is very ungainly in appearance but incredibly sharp (0.017" edge), with outstanding point geometry and extremely straight and well made, despite the uneven sawback of dubious use... It is very much like a Randall Model 18 with about +60% in size, but better made and with an impeccable finish...
Since the Cox sheath was so outstanding, but the hard leather was still very scratchy on the mirror finish, this sheath actually worked better for the satin finished Blackbird, while a heavily modified TOPS (Hellion) sheath, with inner felt added, proved a remarkably good match for the Cox's mirror surfaces...
The handle diameter is the largest of all, yet without cord it feels acceptable: The compartment is the only one I know of that could really take a shaft to make a spear (other hollow handles are simply much too small to make this work), but the huge internal space is only deep to half the handle, as the tang is very long and this huge welded handle mass adds a lot of weight: The knife weights the same 30 ounces as the Blackbird, but should have been much lighter if the tang did not waste so much internal space: The result of all that handle weight is that the balance point is only 1/4" into the blade, for 3/4" for the Blackbird.
The sawback is very sharp in cross-section but not aggressive in profile on the pull, so the only use I see for it is to "start" a cut on very large rope: Once the cut is started with the saw, it could be finished with the main edge... That is very limited use, and the unevenness of the teeths belies the great precision the rest of the knife is made with...
The Cox sheath with its new partner, the 10.5" RJ Martin Blackbird (1/2" of space wasted at the tip, but less than with the Cox!), with almost all its hideous Kydex scratches sanded out... This knife has a 0.040" edge that Josh could not re-grind thinner because it is a hollow grind: So flat grinds do offer inherent advantages... The S30V steel does not seem to be a great performer, but with the edge stuck at 0.040", it hardly matters anyway... Excellent design and my best chopper: I think the Cox is a superior knife with its much thinner edge (and point, despite the very clumsy-looking design), but the geometry of the low sabre grind probably would force the Cox to make a broader V cut, so as to not glance on the sides of the cut... The Blackbird saw is OK but is slightly inferior to the old Lile Pattern(!)...
Needs no introduction... 0.028" edge bevel right from the start... Finally a decent coat of Cerakoat paint on this one, as the original black paint was horrible. The pommel was Cerakoated too and this helps the discrete look a lot... Incredibly light at 17 ounces vs 30 ounces on the two above... Yet chopping is about 3/4 of the RJ Martin... The sawback works as intended, and was correctly dipped on each teeth (unlike Lile's Sly II). The lack of soldered guard and crappy paint are unacceptable, and show you are paying for the name, but the blade is very straight and true, if initially badly finished. An amazing knife in sharpness and performance, and the D-2 is so far the only thing I've seen to match Randall's 440B in holding together below 15 degrees per side while chopping wood.
Andrew Clifford Sly II. Well made and very symmetrical and straight. The saw is just decorative and will not even strip bark... I actually think the notches would bite into the baton and might help prevent breakage under batoning, especially those in the clip, but other than that... I bought this knife because the sheath seemed extraordinary: 1" of leather thickness at the guard... It did not disappoint... It also does not scratch the blade, and inter-acts with the guard in a very clever way to stabilize the blade perfectly: Outstanding.
Initial edge bevel grind was over 0.045", so really sub-optimal...: RazorEdgeKnives to the rescue, it is now an incredibly sharp 0.020 or less, at around 12 degrees per side... The 440C steel did not seem to hold up as good as Randall, but what does? A very, very functional-looking knife, and maybe the so-so edge holding was just an initial layer of power-burned steel, as I have noticed this to improve on my Chris Reeves Jereboam on re-sharpening by hand for instance... I am sure power tools affect the edge apex temper, even when water-cooled, and this shows up more and more at the thin sub-15 degrees per side angles I prefer...: With a bit of hand-sharpening this sometimes seems to go away...
The handle cord is 325 lbs and is not original: I've found the typical thin handle cord will not hold steady without a recessed shoulder in the tube, and there is none here, which is often the case with knurling on the tube underneath, as here... I simply superglue the big 325 cord at regular intervals, the large cord diameter offering a lot of purchase, and this combined with the knurling is hugely stable.
The handle capacity is very small: The Lile will hold a 4" lightstick with 20 matches and 6 safety pins wrapped around it, plus fishing kit: The ACK only has a firesteel and a few matches in tube container, with a bit of cord around it... Depth is 4" on the Lile vs about 2.2" on the Clifford Sly II (with a much smaller diameter on the inner tube for the Clifford!)
The Lile Sly II (below) was also re-ground by RazorEdgeKnives from 0.040" to under 0.020", with the teeths "dipped": The original finish on that thing was just unspeakable, with huge hills and valleys all over, with more ridges for each teeth(!), but it is now flawless and Cerakoated gray:
The AlleyCat above it was extremely dull, but I managed to put a huge bevel on it, despite the detestable recurve, so it is acceptable now...: The quality and symmetry is really outstandingly good, as was the excellent fit to the sheath, even if the snap was not tight, in part because of the inexistant guard...
Gaston
The Lile "Mission" finally accepted paint but caused a lot of trouble with oil "sweating" from the guard": Finally it "sweated" over the paint so it was OK in the end...
I also got a new knife, a huge 10.4" Colin Cox, in part because I thought the very nice leather sheath might work better for the RJ Martin "Blackbird", which was being scratched to hell from its Kydex sheath: Why Kydex is popular I'll never understand, but the idea worked, and I to my surprise I found a proper sheath for the Colin Cox... The Cox is very ungainly in appearance but incredibly sharp (0.017" edge), with outstanding point geometry and extremely straight and well made, despite the uneven sawback of dubious use... It is very much like a Randall Model 18 with about +60% in size, but better made and with an impeccable finish...
Since the Cox sheath was so outstanding, but the hard leather was still very scratchy on the mirror finish, this sheath actually worked better for the satin finished Blackbird, while a heavily modified TOPS (Hellion) sheath, with inner felt added, proved a remarkably good match for the Cox's mirror surfaces...
The handle diameter is the largest of all, yet without cord it feels acceptable: The compartment is the only one I know of that could really take a shaft to make a spear (other hollow handles are simply much too small to make this work), but the huge internal space is only deep to half the handle, as the tang is very long and this huge welded handle mass adds a lot of weight: The knife weights the same 30 ounces as the Blackbird, but should have been much lighter if the tang did not waste so much internal space: The result of all that handle weight is that the balance point is only 1/4" into the blade, for 3/4" for the Blackbird.
The sawback is very sharp in cross-section but not aggressive in profile on the pull, so the only use I see for it is to "start" a cut on very large rope: Once the cut is started with the saw, it could be finished with the main edge... That is very limited use, and the unevenness of the teeths belies the great precision the rest of the knife is made with...
The Cox sheath with its new partner, the 10.5" RJ Martin Blackbird (1/2" of space wasted at the tip, but less than with the Cox!), with almost all its hideous Kydex scratches sanded out... This knife has a 0.040" edge that Josh could not re-grind thinner because it is a hollow grind: So flat grinds do offer inherent advantages... The S30V steel does not seem to be a great performer, but with the edge stuck at 0.040", it hardly matters anyway... Excellent design and my best chopper: I think the Cox is a superior knife with its much thinner edge (and point, despite the very clumsy-looking design), but the geometry of the low sabre grind probably would force the Cox to make a broader V cut, so as to not glance on the sides of the cut... The Blackbird saw is OK but is slightly inferior to the old Lile Pattern(!)...
Needs no introduction... 0.028" edge bevel right from the start... Finally a decent coat of Cerakoat paint on this one, as the original black paint was horrible. The pommel was Cerakoated too and this helps the discrete look a lot... Incredibly light at 17 ounces vs 30 ounces on the two above... Yet chopping is about 3/4 of the RJ Martin... The sawback works as intended, and was correctly dipped on each teeth (unlike Lile's Sly II). The lack of soldered guard and crappy paint are unacceptable, and show you are paying for the name, but the blade is very straight and true, if initially badly finished. An amazing knife in sharpness and performance, and the D-2 is so far the only thing I've seen to match Randall's 440B in holding together below 15 degrees per side while chopping wood.
Andrew Clifford Sly II. Well made and very symmetrical and straight. The saw is just decorative and will not even strip bark... I actually think the notches would bite into the baton and might help prevent breakage under batoning, especially those in the clip, but other than that... I bought this knife because the sheath seemed extraordinary: 1" of leather thickness at the guard... It did not disappoint... It also does not scratch the blade, and inter-acts with the guard in a very clever way to stabilize the blade perfectly: Outstanding.
Initial edge bevel grind was over 0.045", so really sub-optimal...: RazorEdgeKnives to the rescue, it is now an incredibly sharp 0.020 or less, at around 12 degrees per side... The 440C steel did not seem to hold up as good as Randall, but what does? A very, very functional-looking knife, and maybe the so-so edge holding was just an initial layer of power-burned steel, as I have noticed this to improve on my Chris Reeves Jereboam on re-sharpening by hand for instance... I am sure power tools affect the edge apex temper, even when water-cooled, and this shows up more and more at the thin sub-15 degrees per side angles I prefer...: With a bit of hand-sharpening this sometimes seems to go away...
The handle cord is 325 lbs and is not original: I've found the typical thin handle cord will not hold steady without a recessed shoulder in the tube, and there is none here, which is often the case with knurling on the tube underneath, as here... I simply superglue the big 325 cord at regular intervals, the large cord diameter offering a lot of purchase, and this combined with the knurling is hugely stable.
The handle capacity is very small: The Lile will hold a 4" lightstick with 20 matches and 6 safety pins wrapped around it, plus fishing kit: The ACK only has a firesteel and a few matches in tube container, with a bit of cord around it... Depth is 4" on the Lile vs about 2.2" on the Clifford Sly II (with a much smaller diameter on the inner tube for the Clifford!)
The Lile Sly II (below) was also re-ground by RazorEdgeKnives from 0.040" to under 0.020", with the teeths "dipped": The original finish on that thing was just unspeakable, with huge hills and valleys all over, with more ridges for each teeth(!), but it is now flawless and Cerakoated gray:
The AlleyCat above it was extremely dull, but I managed to put a huge bevel on it, despite the detestable recurve, so it is acceptable now...: The quality and symmetry is really outstandingly good, as was the excellent fit to the sheath, even if the snap was not tight, in part because of the inexistant guard...
Gaston
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Thanks TAH!
I've chopped with my Model 14 recently, and to my surprise I noticed it chopped only about 1/3 to 1/2 as well as my Model 18 (maybe 1/6th my Model 12!): Probably when the Spring comes around I'll post a direct chopping comparison between the two similar blades: I think the broader surface of a hollow handle is simply better at transferring energy than a hand-fitting handle...: Looking down from the top, a form-fitting handle is much narrower, so the surface to transfer energy is a lot smaller... There is the issue of rolling when held loosely, but that is just a matter of being aware of it and squeezing a little...
I won't test the Cox because of the mirror finish, but if I get another one I might... They tend to have some of the stranger styling out there, and he seemed to rarely make twice the same pattern... Another one I would be curious to see and hear about are the Steve Voorhis designs.
It's a good thing custom hollow handle makers making huge 10" plus blades are relatively rare, or I would be utterly ruined...
Gaston
I've chopped with my Model 14 recently, and to my surprise I noticed it chopped only about 1/3 to 1/2 as well as my Model 18 (maybe 1/6th my Model 12!): Probably when the Spring comes around I'll post a direct chopping comparison between the two similar blades: I think the broader surface of a hollow handle is simply better at transferring energy than a hand-fitting handle...: Looking down from the top, a form-fitting handle is much narrower, so the surface to transfer energy is a lot smaller... There is the issue of rolling when held loosely, but that is just a matter of being aware of it and squeezing a little...
I won't test the Cox because of the mirror finish, but if I get another one I might... They tend to have some of the stranger styling out there, and he seemed to rarely make twice the same pattern... Another one I would be curious to see and hear about are the Steve Voorhis designs.
It's a good thing custom hollow handle makers making huge 10" plus blades are relatively rare, or I would be utterly ruined...
Gaston
Unfortunately, there is no hollow handle in that Buck(?) blade... It is just a "non functional" cap. I were to ever own a stag handle knife, that one would probably still be it(!), but it was expensive for a 7.5" blade, like 1700, so I left it alone...
I'm impressed with how your Martin sawback works Mick HT, because my standard of excellence for sawbacks is 1.25" deep on diameters over 3 inches, and straight through on 2 inches diameter max...: Small diameter really helps sawbacks, and some sawbacks like the Neeley SA will go straight through 2" diameter, but then stop a 0.25" when trying for over 3" in diameter... There is the aspect of sawing a branch supported at both ends, which "pinches" the saw as you go through, versus a free-hanging tree branch, which "unpinches" the saw, but generally those numbers are around the performance I expect.
A sawback on a full height flat grind is pretty much a prerequisiste for performance, as non-V tapered "flat" blade sides kill saw performance (unless a huge fuller is put in, like on the Apparo), so the Martin MCE saw does fit with that notion.
One of the things that changed in my view of these knives recently, and that will severely limit my purchasing options, is I find that 9" is a bit on the short side: I really love the fact that my ACK is 9.5", and even that is borderline. A BK-9 is about 9.5", but is thin-bladed at 3/16", so it doesn't really chop as much as a knife of this size should, and the thinness makes it vibrate a lot.
9" with 0.22" plus stock seems to be a point around which chopping performance increases rapidly, so don't discount the larger, thicker blades as wasteful, they are quite the opposite.
Gaston
I'm impressed with how your Martin sawback works Mick HT, because my standard of excellence for sawbacks is 1.25" deep on diameters over 3 inches, and straight through on 2 inches diameter max...: Small diameter really helps sawbacks, and some sawbacks like the Neeley SA will go straight through 2" diameter, but then stop a 0.25" when trying for over 3" in diameter... There is the aspect of sawing a branch supported at both ends, which "pinches" the saw as you go through, versus a free-hanging tree branch, which "unpinches" the saw, but generally those numbers are around the performance I expect.
A sawback on a full height flat grind is pretty much a prerequisiste for performance, as non-V tapered "flat" blade sides kill saw performance (unless a huge fuller is put in, like on the Apparo), so the Martin MCE saw does fit with that notion.
One of the things that changed in my view of these knives recently, and that will severely limit my purchasing options, is I find that 9" is a bit on the short side: I really love the fact that my ACK is 9.5", and even that is borderline. A BK-9 is about 9.5", but is thin-bladed at 3/16", so it doesn't really chop as much as a knife of this size should, and the thinness makes it vibrate a lot.
9" with 0.22" plus stock seems to be a point around which chopping performance increases rapidly, so don't discount the larger, thicker blades as wasteful, they are quite the opposite.
Gaston
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