THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread

[robgmn]

I remember adverts in knife magazines back in the 80's for Chris Reeve hollow-handled survival knives.
I've tried to search this thread with VBulletn search and Google, but no luck.
Anyone remember this, or have one?

I'm assuming it's the same C.R. of Sebenza fame(?)

 

[mick HT]

Unfortunately, there is no hollow handle in that Buck(?) blade... It is just a "non functional" cap. I were to ever own a stag handle knife, that one would probably still be it(!), but it was expensive for a 7.5" blade, like 1700, so I left it alone...

I'm impressed with how your Martin sawback works Mick HT, because my standard of excellence for sawbacks is 1.25" deep on diameters over 3 inches, and straight through on 2 inches diameter max...: Small diameter really helps sawbacks, and some sawbacks like the Neeley SA will go straight through 2" diameter, but then stop a 0.25" when trying for over 3" in diameter... There is the aspect of sawing a branch supported at both ends, which "pinches" the saw as you go through, versus a free-hanging tree branch, which "unpinches" the saw, but generally those numbers are around the performance I expect.

A sawback on a full height flat grind is pretty much a prerequisiste for performance, as non-V tapered "flat" blade sides kill saw performance (unless a huge fuller is put in, like on the Apparo), so the Martin MCE saw does fit with that notion.

One of the things that changed in my view of these knives recently, and that will severely limit my purchasing options, is I find that 9" is a bit on the short side: I really love the fact that my ACK is 9.5", and even that is borderline. A BK-9 is about 9.5", but is thin-bladed at 3/16", so it doesn't really chop as much as a knife of this size should, and the thinness makes it vibrate a lot.

9" with 0.22" plus stock seems to be a point around which chopping performance increases rapidly, so don't discount the larger, thicker blades as wasteful, they are quite the opposite.

Gaston

Gaston, the full height grind as you mentioned lends itself to drag free sawing and the teeth have been properly designed are efficient and sharp but the easy of use is largely a result of using the lanyard attached through the hole on the spine side of the guard as a looped handle, I can pull the teeth deep into the wood powering it with the large muscle group of my arm, I then only need to guide the blade with my other hand.

 

[cricketdave]

Thats the way I do it too, thong through the top guard, guide with right hand pull and push with left and I've cut through 5 inch limbs without too much trouble.

 

[mick HT]

Thats the way I do it too, thong through the top guard, guide with right hand pull and push with left and I've cut through 5 inch limbs without too much trouble.

Cricketdave, im surprised how far these sawbacks have come, how effective the combination of a well designed sawback and good technique. It's one of those things in life where you have to try them for yourself.

 

[Gaston444]

I remember adverts in knife magazines back in the 80's for Chris Reeve hollow-handled survival knives.
I've tried to search this thread with VBulletn search and Google, but no luck.
Anyone remember this, or have one?

I'm assuming it's the same C.R. of Sebenza fame(?)

Yes it is, but he stopped making them in 2009, so it is Ebay only and around $800+ for the big ones.

I have just about the biggest size they come in, the 8.75" Jereboam (somewhat deceptively advertised as 9"), and I would not recommend them as choppers, as the blade profile is quite narrow, and this narrowness is made worse by the fairly low sabre-grind: This gives the thick 0.25" blade a tendency to bounce on the sides of a deep V cut into wood. This combined with the lack of a real guard makes them a bit risky to chop with... The balance is also only 0.25" into the blade, which at this size and weight means the handle is quite heavy. The more common Project 1 is probably barely neutral at 7.5".

These big knives look very slim and sleek for the size, but they feel very heavy for what they are as a result... Chopping performance is so-so even on the bigger models: The disparity seen here, at the same number of hits, is instructive:

Separate tube Hollow handles are generally way overbuilt and do not fail, so the advantages of a slim heavy one-piece knife like this is not obvious to me.

To give you an idea of the feel of these CR knives, consider that the top knife is the same weight, or heavier, than the middle knife...:

The CR actually feels very slightly heavier side-by-side, so I find the quoted spec weight of 17 ounces hard to believe, since the Rambo is also 17 ounces...

The handle's internal capacity is quite a bit smaller (too small in my opinion) from the heavy thickness of the handle walls.

The edge-holding is rumored to be poor: I could not confirm or deny this, but the edge geometry is twice as thick as a Randall Model 18, which I think is far better knife as a result.

The CRs are not unsound knives, but they are definitely overrated among hollow handles, as they are always referred to as being "the best": The Randall Model 18 in stainless is a much better example of the kind in my opinion, and is now somewhat cheaper than a second-hand CR.

Gaston

 

[Gaston444]

I've done this photos of the "survival family", as the collection is getting near a kind of "stable" condition.

Missing are the Randalls Model 18, Model 12, Clinton Dagger, Chris Reeves Jereboam, and the Katz fighter with shoulder strap (and my Spyderco Civilian, but that is really all):

From left to right: Lile Sly II (9"), Randall Model 14 (7.4"), RJ Martin Blackbird (10.5"), Colin Cox Survival (10 and 5/16"), Andrew Clifford Sly II (9.5"), Lile "Mission" (10")

I also mentioned in a previous post how much smaller the inner compartment of the Andrew Clifford was compared to either of the Liles (here the Mission): This probably shows the influence of the general belief that hollow handles are fragile... (Similarly, the Colin Cox has huge capacity but only half the handle depth is available. The diameter is really huge however, which helps a lot):

The bigger hollow handle item pack is a 4" light stick with 18 matches + striker, needle with sewing thread, fishing kit and 6 safety pins plus a Band-Aid wrapped around them. The smaller pack is a cut-down ferro rod with about 8 matches/striker, sewing needle/thread and maybe a foot or so of 325 lbs cord wrapped around this... I usually keep everything together with scotch magic tape, with a strong pulling tab made of this same tape, as I find this quite efficient to pull everything out without losing volume.

Gaston

 

[robgmn]

My buddy has an EARLY Chris Reeve HH that he is thinking of selling to pay for some emergency household stuff.
The knife was made in Reeve's garage in South Africa before he moved to the US.
It's number 335 of 350, made with A2 tool steel and is well-used but in good shape.

Does it's history add additional value, or is it's value strictly in the knife alone?

 

[Gaston444]

Send it to Chris Reeves to have it re-finished/re-furbished (The spa treatment), because in worn condition value will go way down (but ask the CR forum about that to be sure). They won't spa the sheath, so the sheath condition could be the bigger deal...

It should be quite a bit more valuable as an early model, especially if it has a serrated spine, as those are rare and desirable. Maybe up to US $1200-1800. Maybe even higher being so early, but check the CR forum: The maker's wife keeps track of these things and posts there.

Gaston

 

[robgmn]

Send it to Chris Reeves to have it re-finished/re-furbished (The spa treatment), because in worn condition value will go way down (but ask the CR forum about that to be sure). They won't spa the sheath, so the sheath condition could be the bigger deal...

It should be quite a bit more valuable as an early model, especially if it has a serrated spine, as those are rare and desirable. Maybe up to US $xxxx. Maybe even higher being so early, but check the CR forum: The maker's wife keeps track of these things and posts there.

Gaston

Will do!
Feel free to edit out prices as I was just wondering how the age would affect the value, and don't want the thread to violate any forum rules.

 

[cricketdave]

Well my daughters Martin came today, Newt did a beautiful job on it. I will be making a Molle sheath for it and it will all be going into a presentation box with her name and rank on an engraved plate with a fitted interior for the knife and sheaths and room for whatever extra's she wants to add.

I think she's going to love it.

 

[bowie69]

Dave, your daughter's knife is a wonderful gift. What a solid, reliable looking beast!

I am curious if anyone has anything on this "Bulgarian Commando" knife. I have seen them around on the big sales sites, but never anywhere else:





It would be interesting if they actually were an issued knife, or if that is a marketing ploy....

 

[shaving sharp]

X

Dave, your daughter's knife is a wonderful gift. What a solid, reliable looking beast!

I am curious if anyone has anything on this "Bulgarian Commando" knife. I have seen them around on the big sales sites, but never anywhere else:





It would be interesting if they actually were an issued knife, or if that is a marketing ploy....

I have one. They are well built and are marked Arsenal. I believe they were made or distributed by Arsenal Bulgaria the AK47 maker.

 

[bowie69]

X

I have one. They are well built and are marked Arsenal. I believe they were made or distributed by Arsenal Bulgaria the AK47 maker.

Very interesting. Are you able to tell how the blade is fastened to the handle? I am also curious about the capacity of the hollow handle. Thanks!

 

[shaving sharp]

It looks like they took a piece of round stock and milled a slot out of the center. Then threaded the outside. To assemble they put the guard over the blade tang then the slotted round stock and pinned it through the tang of the knife with a press fit pin. Then threaded the handle down on the pinned round stock and locked the threads with locktite or something similar. The handle cavity is 3 inches deep with about 2 1/2 inches that is useable with the cap on. The hole is 5/8 in diameter. Blade steel thickness is about 3/16 thick. The knife is well built but I bought mine to match my AK rifle not to use. I have many custom hollow handle survival knives and would judge this knife as a light duty knife. P.S. Sheath is made from about 6-7 ounce leather.

 

[TAH]

shaving sharp,

Any idea on the blade, handle and buttcap material?

 

[ronie1988]

Try Boker Plus Apparo knife....hollow handle but strong and workable

 

[Sam Wilson]

Finished this one, and thought I would post some pics. It is a custom version of my P.A.C.Knife and has a 5/32" thick blade instead of the usual 1/8" and also a steel handle as opposed to the aluminum which helps cut down weight and balance the lighter blade. Also, regular sheath instead of the pouch version.

Hope you like it!

Sam :thumbup:

 

[Gaston444]

Very nice... And small!

Here is something you don't see every day: Number 039 of the original 100 numbered Lile Missions, with matching number dagger.

Here is something I found absolutely astonishing: You remember how my own non-numbered Lile Mission had correctly front-dipped sawback teeth tops, for excellent saw cutting performance, and how my Lile Sly II did not (as all the Sly IIs I have seen), so that Josh at RazorEdgeKnives had to perform a miracle and dip each teeth individually (which he managed to do to perfection, free hand, an amazing feat(!)...

Here on 039 I checked and there is no doubt: The teeth are not dipped in front, so this sawback is completely non-functional!!!

That is truly bizarre how hit and miss this basic feature is... Wall is still offering all his knives without teeth dip, so does Andrew Clifford and some Voorhies are missing it too, but most have it. Most of Andy Wood's replicas have it, but a few do not... The Next Generation First Bloods made by Vince Ford do not have it... I think the current ones by Vaugh Neeley have it.

Without a forward individual tooth dip, it is not an exaggeration to say the saw will fail to even strip the bark layer off a limb... What is in fact an excellent sawback design is made completely useless by this omission...: I know the #5 First Blood movie auction knife had the dip, but I will now watch other First Blood movie stills, and those of Rambo part 2 as well, to see if the teeths on all those were functional... This must mean it is a very time-consuming and difficult feature to get right, if so often it is "skipped"...

I think Jean Tanazaq found the best solution to this dilemma, if it is so hard to make this teeth top "dip" consistent...: On his own "Rambo" version -a masterpiece of craftsmanship that is mirror polished, and unique among First Blood type knives in being able to be disassembled- his teeth design avoided the issue of consistent teeth dipping quite cleverly: He had all the teeth tops on the same parallel plane, but one tooth was taller, the other shorter, one taller, the other shorter, creating the needed "step" effect for the saw to bite... This is a very discrete and elegant method to avoid both the difficulty in setting a consistent dip angle, and yet allow the saw to gain some purchase to work effectively....

Sawbacks do not have to be useless bling... I think it is a great disservice to the already extremely poor (and undeserved) reputation of these knives that sawbacks are executed in a way that makes them completely useless on even the most expensive and original version of these knives... It is a bit like having a Ferrari with a fake trunk welded shut, just so the car is even more stereotypically impractical than it has to be...

Gaston

 

[Sam Wilson]

And the other side:

 

[sams]

Very nice blade, Sam. I think it is good looking and a size I would like to carry.