The hyping of Chris Reeve Knifes

[Ankerson]

i guess they did not teach you how the debate format works back in the day did they....... you have not aded any personal experience yet. just that your old and that something flawless and perfect exists which is simply not true..... please start making points in favor of your agruement

If it's made by the human element it's not perfect.

 

[Gator97]

How can you form such a strong opinion from reading and you tube video's? I don't have an opinion as I have not purchased one of CRK's knives. However I have noticed that he wins a lot of awards....

For fit and finish, quality, precision etc. However, I have yet to see CRK knife that would win in performance department. And I've had a lot of CRKs.

He uses good steels A2, ATS-34, BG-42, CPM-S30V, CPM-S35V. I suspect he nails heat treat on these steels as Reeve collaborated with Dick Barber of Crucible Materials Corporation to develop CPM S30V steel as a knifemaking steel in 2003. Generally if you are heavilly involved in developing a steel you might be able to figure out how to heat treat it.

Can I ask you, you suspect "he nails it" based on what? BG-42 from CRK was quite close to optimum for a folding knife, but the rest... A2 at 54-56HRC is really far from nailing it. S30V at 57-58HRC is a lot of lost performance for a folder and so on. Same story with their kitchen knives, way too soft for a kitchen knife.

...The name of the knife is the Zulu word for "work". You wanna argue with a Zulu ???

I'm not sure if that is sarcasm or serious. Just because it's called work doesn't mean anything.

 

[Thalestin]

If you read up on them and think it is all hype, why not just pass on them and continue on your day. I like my sebenza and enjoy using it daily. Is it the best design ever? Not for everyone. Does the blade cut stuff? Certainly does fine on the regular day to day tasks. Was it worth the 400 bucks? Sure it was to me. Im not rich, but I love knives so spending 400 on my hobby isnt a big deal to me. A box cutter would cut fine too, and is a nice hard use tool.
Bottom line is if you like and enjoy what you buy. If it is partly due to hype, how is that a bad thing? Lets face it, 99.9 % of us here don't need more that a couple knives, the rest are just as useless as a bit of hype. As long as you get some joy out of your purchase, who really cares.

Just because someone buys a Chris reeve knife doesnt mean they sip some kind of coolaid. Lots of people do just enjoy them to collect or to use. Whats wrong with that? Last time I checked the EDC post, most of the knives looked pretty damn minty fresh to me . No need to be hostile on what some people like. Live and let live. Sure there are always those that fanatically defend what they buy, but that is nothing new.

Anyways, have a good one, and enjoy whatever knife you choose to carry

 

[knarfeng]

the first part of my quote was a wise ass comment..... to somebody being a wise ass

i use both studs all the time on my knife and i am thankful for them....... a lot of people agree with me.

very few folders show any sign of damage from "flicking" in my own usage. i have probaly 15 plus knives that are only deployed by giving a hard wrist flick and smash into the stop bar. none have vertical play or any sign of damage. but that is my personal usage

if he wants a long use general purpose steel it should be run from about 59.5 to 60 in my opinion. it will hold an awesome edge, be easy to hone, still wont chip out etc... in my experience with crk's s30v and s35vn it is compairable to benchmade's 154cm or kershaw's 14c28n and i am upset by that if i pay for s30v or s35vn

i understand your points but i think changes would lead to a better knife overall and i know many people agree with both of our sides

have a nice day

I am also amused by folks who think they know more about cutlery alloy performance than a knife maker who has been plying his trade for a couple of decades. I'd say this part of the post also falls into the category of wiseacre comments.

I also personally disagree with your assessment of the performance of the alloys you mention. Both S35VN and S30V hold an edge noticeably better than 154CM or 14C28N. I've used them. I've tested them side by side for edge retention. Both of the PM alloys hold an edge better than the melt alloys.

 

[hardheart]

I am also amused by folks who think they know more about cutlery alloy performance than a knife maker who has been plying his trade for a couple of decades.

I'm not sure why. If the person has been using knives for a couple of decades, I would say they could make an assessment of knives/steels they have used. The OP didn't, so that of course would not count, but one thing these knife forums has taught me personally is to just get the steel I want for whatever reason I have at the moment, because the knifemaker is using what he likes from his experience and his reasons, and that is never all encompassing. Listening to the knifemaker would help make sure I get the best he produces, but that might not be the best overall. The maker arguments over quenching oils, soak times, differential treatments, steel types, etc just pushes me to data sheets, emails to mills, and end user comments more often than not.

If I wanted D2, I would probably go with Dozier, but I would not think D2 was the best steel because Dozier does a good job with it. I wouldn't take 154CM based on the amount Ernest Emerson uses. I wouldn't ask for a heat treat of S30V that matches Reeve's over one designed by Paul Bos or used by Spyderco's manufacturers. I like what Farid does with 15V, REX 121, etc, but I wouldn't turn down a 440C knife from Ron Lake, nor would I think 440C was better than anything else because of his cache.

I cannot comment on CRKs specifically, because I've never wanted one. But I want my PM steels about as hard as they can get with a low temper or with secondary hardening. They cut longer, I sharpen with diamonds, and I don't chop or baton with my folders (no downsides for me and high hardness). But that's also one reason I don't own CRKs, for the money I get to order the steels I want in customs.

The performance may have been comparable if there were significant differences in geometry, as geometry beats out any difference in composition or heat treat. But there really is no reason to say 154CM would outlast a vanadium PM steel if they were equal.

Criticizing the performance of CRK knives is a little off, imo. Expectations should be more reasoned, but I suppose for the money people expect the world. It's understandable until someone realizes just how expensive this hobby gets, and just how varied the justifications are.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

The name of the knife is the Zulu word for "work". You wanna argue with a Zulu ???

I'm not sure if that is sarcasm or serious. Just because it's called work doesn't mean anything.

Let me clue you in: anyone taking this thread seriously after all the admitted cute kid sarcasm we've been besieged with, nothing will help. Sarcasm followed by supposed wisdom of the (young) ages.

I didn't say it's being called work meant anything. I asked if you wanted to argue with a Zulu. Chris is stubborn. He has reason to be. His experience, his methods, the approval of his peers, the approval of his customers, his expanding business -- all point out that he is doing a lot right. Since he posits his success on refining the features that have already succeeded, tossing off new & exciting steels and models and promises that a few people demand is not going to get a quick response.

 

[stjames]

I remember when I was 16 and knew more than my teachers and parents. The kid is right, the older I get the more I realize how little I know. Thank God the future is in such wise hands.

 

[Tony8179]

you obviously cant add anything to the conversation..... are valid points hard to rebut? or is your old age and experience just getting to you? please name one thing you understand that a young man or woman could not learn and understand better than you......

Apparently a majority of the younger generation have trouble learning basic sentence and paragraph structure. The younger generation also seem to have trouble with capitalization and correct usage of punctuation. It appears, as well, that the younger generation never bothered to learn how to use the spell check option.

 

[Gator97]

Criticizing the performance of CRK knives is a little off, imo. Expectations should be more reasoned, but I suppose for the money people expect the world. It's understandable until someone realizes just how expensive this hobby gets, and just how varied the justifications are.

Agreed on all points, although, In 99% of the cases, you won't see expected CRK performance explained at all, or even stated that one shouldn't expect very high levels. Mostly you get something like: that's the last folding knife you will ever need, one you handle it the world will change, #1 ever, you need to grow up to Sebenza, etc, etc. Based on such input, it's unlike to figure out "average" performance knife, and realize/accept the price mostly comes from precision, fit and finish, brand name, etc. Criticism or not, they'e not performing as one might expect based on the "best folder" category.

I asked if you wanted to argue with a Zulu. Chris is stubborn. He has reason to be. His experience, his methods, the approval of his peers, the approval of his customers, his expanding business -- all point out that he is doing a lot right. Since he posits his success on refining the features that have already succeeded, tossing off new & exciting steels and models and promises that a few people demand is not going to get a quick response.

I don't want to argue neither with Chris, nor with you, although no matter how much the business expands, 54HRC A2 steel knife is still way too soft, even considering the alleged ease of sharpening Marketing, fanbase, etc, all play role besides pure "knife qualities".

 

[hardheart]

True. If you want a frame lock from the maker credited with creating it, it's where you go. If you want an award-winning product year after year, it's where you go. If you want a high level of tolerances, it's where you go. If you want to try out new steels, new locks, new handle materials, new opening mechanisms, etc., it is generally not where one should go.

I do have to say the lasting a lifetime/passing on to the kids/last one kind of comments seem completely out of left field. I have knives older than Sebenzas, I've had knives older than Reeve himself. A lot of people have these older knives. They still work, knives don't have an expiration date (maybe celluloid kicking off on old handles).

 

[shqxk]

Its all about preference.

CRK has kind of timeless beauty which you couldn't find where and it really maintain the value, just this two reason its worth IMO.

But well, i still dont see what the 0.005 tolerance (CRK fan keep referred this) do with the performance, toughness, look or quality of knife.

 

[A.P.F.]

is it easy because new people learned from the old, and then improved. then made cleaner more efficient cuts that wasted less meat and was more time and energy efficient.....? dont get me wrong. listening toyour elders is the best way to learn. i sit in amazement when i have a long conversation with my grandfather. but sayng you must be old to be right is idiocracy.(ummm...that would be 'idiocy'.) we should listen to our elders. analyze there (That would be 'their'.) results and try and improve them. test our beliefs and if they are true then they should be adopted for the beterment (That would be 'betterment'.) of the product or society. you should not just trust the old man because that was his conclusion

Perhaps before you try to 'school' your elders, you should police your spelling first? You make some good points, just don't forget that you are boxing outside of your weight class.

 

[A. G. Russell]

making fun of a young person because he does not spell well is hardly playing the game. There are few here older than I and I would hate to have my reputation based on my spelling.

 

[c.joe]

So, do most of the CRK Sebenza owners buy these knives simply to play with and constantly and mindlessly flick it open and closed while sitting on the couch watching TV, or, they they acutally
use them daily and if so, what are you results with the blade performance?

I use the shit out of them. Just recently I had to cut duct tape that was stuck on a concrete floor. Nasty feeling.. but damn the edge held up well.

I do agree, why buy a $410 dollar knife when I can buy a Sage II for half the price.

Then that goes for the Sage II as well. Why buy a Sage II when I can buy a Buck 110.

Then that goes for the Buck 110. Why buy a buck 110 when I can buy a few M-techs and not worry?

They all cut the same way and even with a dull edge, we can still manage to squeeze use out of it.



I don't own too many knives that last as long as the Sebenza. The blade has no play and not just in the locked position, but 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, and 3/4ths open. Broke in fairly quickly many years ago when I first bought it back in 2003. It is still the same buttery opening as it was years ago.

It is built with a very simple construction. If you have ever taken apart a Sebenza, you'll realize the tolerances are incredibly low. I struggle taking the scales off even with the screws taken out. No loose parts or parts that can develop a loose spot over time.


So to answer your question, no, not all of us buy Chris Reeve knives and knifesturbate with it while watching TV. I do happen to use it and quite often. I will always have the same trusty Sebbie in my pocket and will never leave home without it.

I do agree that I absolutely do not need a Sebenza. But if I have to cough up extra cash for the quality and warranty that Chris Reeve provides, I'll be more then happy to. I usually tell people, if I had the choice between a $2000 custom and a Sebenza, I would take the Sebenza in a heartbeat.

When you get the chance, watch the DVD that you can purchase from Chris's website. You'll develop a new respect for all his knives.

Without going off too far on a tangent, I personally hated Striders and couldn't justify them for its price. I bought 4 to try out, one being a custom, and every single one had blade play. Customer service was pretty much nonexistent so it was pretty hard for me to even find a contact to warranty the knife. I was quite mad and thought this is how all Striders were. That was until someone walked into my store with an SMF, solid as a tank and smooth as butter. After that day, I adjusted my judgements and made the conclusion that it is simply a hit or miss. (before the new modified lock was released)

Buy one here on the sales forums and try it out. If you don't like it, I can guarantee you you'll sell it for the same price that you bought it for. (or you can just give it to me..)


Hope you'll reconsider your conclusions just as I have for Striders.

Here's a picture of my baby.

 

[Tony8179]

making fun of a young person because he does not spell well is hardly playing the game. There are few here older than I and I would hate to have my reputation based on my spelling.

Mr. Russell, I have nothing but the highest level of respect for you, but I am not playing a game. The young man asked the question and I answered.

In an age where so much communication is accomplished with the written word, it is now more important than ever to be able to construct your thoughts and display them in a manner that shows you actually care about what you are trying to convey. As the reader of these thoughts, why should we care about what someone has to say if they don't care enough to write out their thoughts in a clear and correct manner?

 

[imbryan715]

I am not going to bother to spell check. I was typing fast in a cell phone and my spelling has nothing to do with my stance on the knives. If you actually care to look into it spelling is based on your ability to visualy learn and memorize things. Both of which i lack in

 

[marthinus]

But well, i still dont see what the 0.005 tolerance (CRK fan keep referred this) do with the performance, toughness, look or quality of knife.

In all honesty neither did I. Even though I owned one. Then I went to a local maker. Made a few of my own knives. .005 on surface grinding to have parts fit on each knife starts to make sence then, and they do it every day in a small company of 23 people. I got a bit more respect in that regard for what they do and how they do it.

 

[imbryan715]

If it's made by the human element it's not perfect.

That was exactly the point i was making and he was saying i was stupid for wanting very minor changes to the sbenza

 

[SusAntigoon]

That was exactly the point i was making and he was saying i was stupid for wanting very minor changes to the sbenza

Most people will always have something they want to see different and "improved" on a knife, whether it be the price, steel, lock, bladeshape, weight, size, handlematerial, thumbstud...and the list can go on and on... They (we) need to realise it's practically impossible for a knifemaker/designer to take all those considerations into account in his final product, it's that simple! Much better for him to make and design the knife HE wants! But that can never be a problem because of the literally hundreds of different brands and models of knives there are out there, to choose from. Don't like it...buy something else.

It certainly appears to me that his blades are mediocre at the very best, and very hit and miss with quality control.

Please understand this is just my opinion from all the reading I have done and the videos I have watched.

But it's these two comments combined that bother me and what started the whole discussion! I'm a musician and I would NEVER buy an instrument based on what I read or saw on whatever internet medium out there! I would have to sit down behind a set and experience the sound and feel of it, before I would make my decision on that. Ludwig made a snare drum that has reached legendary status...the Supraphonic. That drum is featured in so many hits you wouldn't believe it! I had one...and I sold it...it wasn't for me, simple. I preferred my own, old trusty maple can. Why? Because my personal feel and touch bring out the sound that I like in it. Just because it works for somebody else, doesn't mean it'll work for you.

The Sebenza has reached a similar status in the knife world as the Supraphonic or any other iconic product throughout the years. So has the Buck 110 or the swiss army knife. But I fail to see how you can make an assumption as "his blades are mediocre at the very best, and very hit and miss with quality control" based on "this is my opinion from all the reading I have done and the videos I have watched". Honestly...that's just stupid borderline ignorant! And no amount of discussing the virtues of education through the internet or differences in wisdom between old and young, will change that, sorry my friend. Experience is still the best learning tool available to man in my opinion.

 

[waterford]

I also wonder how many guys who are buying CRK are dead broke, living in their parent's basement, racking up credit card debt due to this addiction
and obsession.