The idiot's guide to the AR-15 rifle (or an idiot building one)

I found this one for trade.. guy wants my 357 (S&W686)
Its has a bushmaster carry top upper receiver, a stag arms lower receiver, bolt/carrier/charging handle/trigger group. The barrel has a 20" heavy profile, 1/9" twist non-chrome lining with an A2 flashhider. The furniture is olive drab. It will come with one 30 mag. It has about 100 rounds through it.
the mismatched lower & upper have me concerned and the non chrome barrel ?
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I would pass on that one. It has several strikes against it in my opinion. First, it is made completely of lower tier parts (Stag, Bushmaster, etc). Second, an HBAR 20" barrel will make it feel like a fence post. Third, I do not prefer 1 in 9" twists - there is almost no reason to have one. I could go on but I'll just leave it at that. It is just an opinion that is probably worth about as much as you are paying for it. :)
 
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I don't think a mismatched upper and lower matters. Unless you think the pretty picture of the firm that manufactured the lower is unsatisfactory to your tastes. Just have to make sure that it's forged, or billet.

The 20" HBAR barrel is something I'd be wary about, since it's not chrome-lined. I don't think you would want a heavy barrel, assuming that this gun isn't capable of automatic fire. I also remember reading a buff guy complaining about hating life by the end his training sessions because he had to haul around a 10 lb. rifle all day.

A chrome lined barrel is good because it allows you to clean your rifle less, won't rust or pit, requires no break in, and wears at a slower rate so service life is extended (information from here)

I would also pass on the deal, because I'd rather build a rifle that functions exactly as I want it to with features that I want. If it means the rifle is gonna cost a pretty penny, well I only have to cry once ;D
 
Spent all day talking to alot of people who know a whole hell of alot more than me about ARs, the fellows from Magpul, Daniel Defense, CMMG...

I walked away thinking I want to get a "16, rifle length upper instead of a carbine length.

I'm totally on AR overload.
 
I spent all day reading about AR's. Why a rifle-length as opposed to a mid-length upper? You're referring to the gas system, correct?

And it hit me why everyone loves BCM so much. They are the second most leftest company on the chart that rob_s made that matthewdanger posted! So sexy.
 
I walked away thinking I want to get a "16, rifle length upper instead of a carbine length.
16" rifle length? I didn't know about such a beast. I thought that the obscure 18" dissipator uppers were the shortest-barreled rifle-length gas system? Who makes one?

Spent all day talking to alot of people who know a whole hell of alot more than me about ARs, the fellows from Magpul, Daniel Defense, CMMG...
[snip]
I'm totally on AR overload.
:D I imagine that SHOT will do that to you...

I spent all day reading about AR's. Why a rifle-length as opposed to a mid-length upper? You're referring to the gas system, correct?

And it hit me why everyone loves BCM so much. They are the second most leftest company on the chart that rob_s made that matthewdanger posted! So sexy.
I really like my BCM mid-length upper. However, the recoil impulse is noticeably less on a rifle-length gas system. Not that .223 kicks appreciably, but the smoothness helps follow-up shots and switching targets.
 
Without going down to the super minute detail level, I'll just say there are issues with 16" barrels with rifle gas. The main issue is dwell time or lack there of. The amount of time the the projectile spends in the area of the barrel between the gas port and the muzzle is important. When you shorten this area of the barrel, you shorten the dwell time which can and will cause issues. You are basically reducing the amount of gas available to travel back through the gas tube and cycle your bolt.

16" barrels with rifle length gas must be made from cut down 20" barrels. No one makes a barrel in this configuration for good reason. Speaking from experience, some will work fine in warm weather but as soon as the temps get into the 40s they will start short stroking. In the 30s they will become what basically amounts to a single shot rifle.

In order to counter act this cold weather effect, the gas port must be opened to allow more gas. When you do that you are basically counteracting everything that is good about the rifle gas system (it is the smoothest cycling of all the gas system lengths). You are now forcing more gas which makes the recoil pulse harsher. Now you have a bubba-ed up rifle that you might be able to have some faith in.

Now, there is some hope if this is the configuration that you want. Years ago people started making what are called "dissapator" uppers. True dissy uppers have a low profile carbine length gas block hidden under what looks like a rifle length gas system. It has a false gas block and handguard retainer installed so that it can accept rifle length handguards and have rifle length sight radius. Of course, having two gas blocks (one functioning, one for show) adds weight. Not many companies build these anymore. I think Adco would probably build one. I recommend mid length gas under the handguards if you go this direction. Dissy uppers will give you the look of the 12" rifle gas system on a 16" barrel without the function problems. The trade off is weight and the extra price that comes with extra complexity.
 
Spent all day talking to alot of people who know a whole hell of alot more than me about ARs, the fellows from Magpul, Daniel Defense, CMMG...

I walked away thinking I want to get a "16, rifle length upper instead of a carbine length.

I'm totally on AR overload.

16 inch rifle length upper? Do you mean 16 inch mid-length upper?

Too many people with alot of input can overwhelm you. The best advice I heard from forumites was to read the M4carbine.net threads, there is alot of educated and experienced input to help make informed choices. Read the M4carbine forum, just as you would read thru Bladeforum for edged tool info.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376 (to start)
 
Sorry, my previous post was kind of confusing.

I'm talking about what ammounts to a disapator system. CMMG is offering quite a few mid length uppers with a super low profile gas block and a second, unused gas block/sight post attached at the rifle length position.

It gives you a midlength gas system with a rifle length sight radius and all the real estate in the forend you could ever want. I can also get my grip way the hell out there in the forend like I like it.

The guys I talked to at Magpul said the CMMG was pretty decent quality for what I'm looking for so I might go with that.
 
Shotty, the Dissipator has a rifle length handgaurd, but Im not sure if it has a mid-length or carbine length gas tube? Anyway, you could get a low profile gas block and a free float handguard that is 13 inches long, and has eight rails if you wanted all that mounting capability. Read the M4Carbine.net forum, ask the Magpul guys about that forum, I know one of the M4carbine forum members (he posts alot of information) says he works for Magpul. I saw pictures of the Sig Arms "AR" style rifle that is on that Woodsmonkey Shot Show link, looks nice also.
 
CMMG has anything you want. Carbine length gas, midlength gas, rifle length gas, all with a "16, "18, "20 barrel and rifle length handguards and sight radius.

It's pretty cool.

I don't know if there's a difference between what they have going on and a true dissapator system but their system seems pretty cool.
 
I was under the impression that the only thing good about a chrome lined barrel was the corrosion resistance and time between cleanings.

The bad part about chrome lining is that no matter how well it is applied, it is never a perfectly symmetrical coating throughout the barrel, and accuracy suffers.

This is correct, no?




I have a few ARs, nothing fancy, but I am downright impressed with a Frankenstein AR I put together out of a 24 inch Model One upper and Aeroprecision lower. Without any real testing of different types of ammo, and just shooing prone with a Harris bipod, I was putting sub-golfball type groups at just under 200 yards. Hornady 55grn ammo. Leupold 4x12 scope.
 
That is a great group at 200 yds., good ammo also helps alot. Try the same setup using Wolf ammo and see how much accuracy suffers. I read the same also about chrome lined bbls. But also read that unless your using an AR in competition, the accuracy lost is minimal. You could always get a stainless bbl.
 
Recommending CMMG is a tough call for me. On one hand, they have lot of really nice configurations. They offer far more different types of uppers/barrels than just about anyone. However, I haven’t had the greatest luck with their products and find them to be inconsistent and even misleading (purposely or not, I can not say).

I have owned 3 CMMG mid length uppers. 2 of them would not run with ammo that worked in everyone of my other ARs (including 16 inch middies from other manufacturers). I know of 1 middy of theirs first hand that ran fine for the owner at the range for about 1200 rounds until he took it to a Pat Rogers carbine course where it begin to malfunction during prolonged firing strings.

They have generally avoided questions about whether their barrels are batch or individually MP tested. They also do not HP (high pressure) test before MP testing to my knowledge. If you skip the HP test before the MP test, you just do not learn as much. You have to stress the barrel first. Basically, people look for MP testing and think that means it is good to go. I find that a bit misleading.

The one lone CMMG upper (lightweight 16 inch midlength – great barrel configuration) that I have runs great, though it hasn’t had much of a round count. I will be selling because I have basically lost faith in CMMG. It will be replaced with a BCM.

Again, this is a tough call because they do offer some pretty good value over manufacturers like RRA, Bushmaster, Stag, etc. They also offer many configurations that can be quite hard to find. However, as long as BCM uppers are available for roughly the same money, it is hard to recommend CMMG. In the end, my CMMG uppers have not performed to my standards. Maybe things are different now.
 
Truth is ARs and AR parts are about like anything else. There are guys who have had great luck with X brand and guys who wouldn’t recommend them because of Y. Not talking about known junk brands, but most of the common brands.

There are lots of people with a lot of time behind the gun that wouldn’t consider RRA or Stag components anywhere near lower tier. You can build one hell of quality AR without using anything stamped Sabre, Noveske, KAC, etc. On the other end of the spectrum there are those that think you are setting yourself up to fail if you buy any PART that isn’t marked _____.

Buy the best you can afford based on a lot of research and go from there.
 
I really like Stag ARs, I own 5 Stags and I had one problem in the past but it was my fault. I was shooting reloads that I bought, and I think I had a hot round which cracked the upper (below the port cover). I emailed Stag (Jean-Paul if I remember correctly) and told them what happened and told them I would send them the stripped upper and asked if they could tell me what happened. In less thank a week I had a brand new stripped upper mailed to me from Stag. They also felt it could have been an over pressured round that caused the break. Stag did not have to send me a new upper, but they did which really shows they care about me as a customer. They answer every single email I send them with in a day, I have received great customer service in the last 3-4years that I have dealt with them. Magpul is another top-notch company that is great to their customers. As far as function, I am able to hit good groups at 100 yds with a variety of ammo. Its not 2 or 3 moa, but then again Im not competing or drilling, Im having fun.
 
Truth is ARs and AR parts are about like anything else. There are guys who have had great luck with X brand and guys who wouldn’t recommend them because of Y. Not talking about known junk brands, but most of the common brands.

There are lots of people with a lot of time behind the gun that wouldn’t consider RRA or Stag components anywhere near lower tier. You can build one hell of quality AR without using anything stamped Sabre, Noveske, KAC, etc. On the other end of the spectrum there are those that think you are setting yourself up to fail if you buy any PART that isn’t marked _____.

Buy the best you can afford based on a lot of research and go from there.

I think we agree in priniciple. You should buy the best you can afford.

I would also add that mission should drive your gear selection. If your mission is punching paper at the range then any part will do. If you intend to use your rifle for anything more serious than that (competition, personal defense, etc) then you may want to consider parts that are \"marked _____\".

There are best practices that high end parts makers generally adhere to or surpass. These best practices are often called the TDP. The TDP is a document maintained by the military that basically outlines, down to a very minute scale, the baseline that is acceptable for an AR. Remember, it is a baseline. The vast majority of companies don\'t meet the TDP (bad), there are about 3 that meet it (good), and a few that will generally surpass it (best).

Some people don\'t realize how much of an effect parts selection can have on an AR. Take for instance the pins that hold the front sight base (FSB) on the barrel. The FSB is also the gas block. This structure must be held to the barrel in a very rigid and rock solid manner or reliability will suffer as gas is lost. The TDP states that the FSB should be held onto the barrel via 2 taper pins. Why taper pins? Because when the tapers pins are driven into the FSB and barrel, their increasing diameter pulls the FSB down onto the barrel creating a super tight gas seal. The vast majority of makers use straight pins for this application. Do they work? Sure, most of the time, but for some applications we shouldn\'t accept compromise.

Parts, even tiny pins, make a difference. It isn\'t about brand, it is about quality.

That is the beauty of this thread. No one is saying it has to be Noveske, LWRC, or Knight\'s or you are wasting your money. Most are recommending BCM and DD which cost little to nothing more than RRA and Bushmaster. If you really need a budget build, S&W is making a great AR right now. BCM uppers can be purchased for $425. That compares favorably to just about every one.

Also keep in mind that the internet is a double edged sword here. That guy who has 10,000 rounds on his Bushmaster and always talks about how swell they are may be lying or mistaken. They may have all been shot from a bench while the Bushmaster was perfectly clean. It may not have been shot in the cold, wet, snow, mud, etc. The internet is full of people with an opinion that we don\'t know from Adam. It can be hard to get quality information especially on something as ego driven and brand loyal as a gun. No one wants to admit that they bought a turd or that their brand is somehow inferior - they get married to their gear and lose objectivity.

The real truth is that some parts are better than other. So, yes, buy the best parts that you can afford is the right attitude, but in some cases you may be best served to take that to mean \"save longer and buy better parts than you can afford right now\". If you understand what specific parts do and the best practices surrounding those parts, then you can make educated decisions on where to save money.
 
I had a bushmaster dissipator and have been kicking myself in the rear for selling it. This is what my next build is going to be. Delton has a pretty nice set-up for this. Pretty cheap to. Good luck.
 
one thing is for sure ,If I purchased or traded into a Turd AR15,I would not want others to follow, since there is so many AR Rifles & aftermarket parts you have to do some research to get the best your money can buy you ,reason I posted the trade AR,I wasn't sure of this or that,I am a Ruger Mini 14 person(580 serial range)....Love the gun for what it does goes bang and decent for 100 yards or so and I like the action of the mini ... So to follow up I passed on the AR and dealt the 686 for an almost NIB Beretta 92FS w/5 factory 15 rnd mags:)
I was looking at an AR15 and with all this mess & Since I have the mini 14 I may save my cash and go for a 308 (Socom) LOL :D
this AR15 stuff will make your head swim :confused:
 
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