The idiot's guide to the AR-15 rifle (or an idiot building one)

The head spinning never ends TTD. Products are coming out faster than we can keep up with them.

I’ve got a 196 series Mini-14 Ranch that I had some work done on: 3.5# trigger job, barrel shortened to 16.5, threaded for AR flash hiders or a suppressor. Will shoot around 2” at 100 with good ammo. .
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The AR scene for me gets confusing due to I shot a few but never really got into the Black rifle scene and with all the options available to you if your uninformed or misinformed their are about as many good companies as there are lesser companies being I can not clearly tell who is who, I ask questions .
 
If you ever feel like you are getting in over your head, you can buy a complete rifle from a quality manufacturer. I think $1200 will buy you a DD or BCM (only one place that I know of sells the BCMs complete). Colts can also be found in this price range with some patience. If you need to spend a bit less $800-900 will buy you a S&W. You will have to settle for a few things like 1 in 9\" twist, but you will be getting a pretty decent AR.

Then all you have to worry about is what you want to hang on it. :)
 
matthewdanger, why is a 1/9 twist bbl. considered less than ideal for an AR, especially if using 55 & 62 gr. rounds ? is 1/7 twist necessary if using "surplus" or cheap ammo ?
 
actually it's very common and it can save you a lot of money, especially if you want a specific setup, because you would pay more to buy a rifle just to change stuff out anyway
 
onado2000 said:
matthewdanger, why is a 1/9 twist bbl. considered less than ideal for an AR, especially if using 55 & 62 gr. rounds ? is 1/7 twist necessary if using "surplus" or cheap ammo ?
Click to expand...

The military uses mostly 55 and 66 grain ammo and they issue 1/7 only.

Basically, the 1/7 is more versatile. It will stabilize the 55 and 62 but can also stabilize the newer 69, 75, and 77 grain projectiles.

The 1/9 will work fine for 55 and 62 grain projectiles. It might also stabilize some of the 69 grain loads. Some can even stabilize 75 grain projectiles if the projectile is of a sufficiently short overall length (remember, the length of the projectile is what dictates the twist rate needed to stabilize, longer equals heavier so referring to them by weight is a kind of short hand).

The reason you will see some 1/9 barrels that handle heavier projectiles is that many (most in my experience) 1/9 barrels are not truly 1/9. Some are closer to 1/10 and some are almost 1/8. The ones that are closer to 1/8 will perform better with the heavier projectiles. This lack of consistency is symptomatic of companies who use the 1/9 twist and their general lack of acknowledgment of what makes a reliable AR.

Unless you regularly shoot projectiles LIGHTER than 55 grain, there is no reason to limit yourself to a 1/9. 1/8 or 1/7 will give you more options with today's modern projectiles (it is also not a coincidence that these faster twist rates are found on higher quality ARs).
 
shotgunner11 said:
Spent all day talking to alot of people who know a whole hell of alot more than me about ARs, the fellows from Magpul, Daniel Defense, CMMG...

I walked away thinking I want to get a "16, rifle length upper instead of a carbine length.

I'm totally on AR overload.
Click to expand...

What reasons are these people saying for a rifle length system? I can see mid-length setups recommended, but I have a hard time seeing DD or MD recommending them. CMMG I can, since they sell them, but I've seen enough variations in quality with CMMG for me to trust or recommend them anymore. I personally have owned CMMG and had a work-colleague try and run one for a class where he experienced issues. I'd personally stick with companies you don't have issues coming up versus ones like Del-Ton and CMMG where you have just as many that hate them versus love them due to issues experienced.

It is easy to get on overload. The trick is to sort out the wheat from the chaff-not an easy task.

Identify exactly what your needs are, and then your price. If you're mostly looking at it for defensive use, Rob's Chart is very accurate and there are reasons things are rated the way they are or aren't... FYI, notice CMMG's rating... and it seems to fluctuate too much.

Rate the companies much like you rate Rat Cutlery to other knife manufacturers as well. There is a reason you focus on Rat, and not companies like Ontario. There are reasons BCM has the status is does, and the business ethics are very similar to Rat. Paul Buffoni doesn't compromise his quality. Something to consider as well.
 
shotgunner11 said:
The guys I talked to at Magpul said the CMMG was pretty decent quality for what I'm looking for so I might go with that.
Click to expand...

What were the guy's names at Magpul that said that? I'd be curious to know...

The ones I've seen shoot with Pat's classes haven't run CMMG to the best of my knowledge...that tell's me something.
 
texastonydobbs said:
<snip>

Since I have the mini 14 I may save my cash and go for a 308 (Socom) LOL :D
this AR15 stuff will make your head swim :confused:
Click to expand...

The 308 stuff is another set of headaches altogether... :grumpy:

And since some of those guns are still relatively new systems, there are still issues being worked out on some. There is also a much bigger price gap from poor/mediocre systems/guns to the good ones...
 
matthewdanger said:
The military uses mostly 55 and 66 grain ammo and they issue 1/7 only.

Basically, the 1/7 is more versatile. It will stabilize the 55 and 62 but can also stabilize the newer 69, 75, and 77 grain projectiles.

The 1/9 will work fine for 55 and 62 grain projectiles. It might also stabilize some of the 69 grain loads. Some can even stabilize 75 grain projectiles if the projectile is of a sufficiently short overall length (remember, the length of the projectile is what dictates the twist rate needed to stabilize, longer equals heavier so referring to them by weight is a kind of short hand).

The reason you will see some 1/9 barrels that handle heavier projectiles is that many (most in my experience) 1/9 barrels are not truly 1/9. Some are closer to 1/10 and some are almost 1/8. The ones that are closer to 1/8 will perform better with the heavier projectiles. This lack of consistency is symptomatic of companies who use the 1/9 twist and their general lack of acknowledgment of what makes a reliable AR.

Unless you regularly shoot projectiles LIGHTER than 55 grain, there is no reason to limit yourself to a 1/9. 1/8 or 1/7 will give you more options with today's modern projectiles (it is also not a coincidence that these faster twist rates are found on higher quality ARs).
Click to expand...

Some companies likely have also invested quite heavily in 1/9 twists (Bushmaster). Guess which twist they're going to push for their sales?

The 1/9 bandwagon is one that everyone else jumped on with investments without really understanding its weaknesses and the 1/7's abilities. Now it's a cost issue versus an issue of capabilities.
 
TacticalSquirrel said:
What were the guy's names at Magpul that said that? I'd be curious to know...

The ones I've seen shoot with Pat's classes haven't run CMMG to the best of my knowledge...that tell's me something.
Click to expand...

Couldn't tell you names, the one fellow I talked to from Magpul for quite awhile was one of their gunsmiths, small statured with a very full beard. Really great guy.

I talked to him about alot of the various companies and he said that, for the most part, their all the same. Alot of the storys of issues go back to when the companies were new and didn't really know what they were doing.

As long as you get the desireable features (twist rate, chrome lining, M4 feed ramps) chances are you'll be fine.

He said that he primarily uses RRA for his builds because he's found their quality to be the most consistant but that companies like CMMG and Del-ton make a decent product and if you have problems they'll stand behind it.

He said that I'm on a good path with the Del-ton lower, he said he likes Del-ton for their lowers more than their uppers, and he said that CMMG is doing a good job on their staking, feed ramps and barrels. He said that if I were to have a problem, they would take care of me.

Now keep in mind, this conversation was started on the premise that I was doing a budget build that I would be continuing to improve over time.

As for the rifle length, He was reccomending a midlength gas system with a low pro gas block and a rufle length handguard. Me being a rifle shooter, the longer handguards will make it more comfortable for me and a mid-length is going to be more reliable.

Another cool option is that I made a friend at Daniel Defense and he gave me his card and told me to call him about scratch and dent uppers that they have laying around the factory.:thumbup:

Also was given a video and card from a fellow from the Noveske shooting team and he said that he could get me a line on one of their lightly used barrels.
 
Last edited:
shotgunner11 said:
snip>

He said that he primarily uses RRA for his builds because he's found their quality to be the most consistant but that companies like CMMG and Del-ton make a decent product and if you have problems they'll stand behind it.In regards to this, there have been numerous issues with the mag wells not being to spec. There still are much better lowers to choose for builds, and it really surprises me that he still made that recommendation. DPMS and RRA lowers are frequently two of the last choices for builds.

He said that I'm on a good path with the Del-ton lower, he said he likes Del-ton for their lowers more than their uppers, and he said that CMMG is doing a good job on their staking, feed ramps and barrels. He said that if I were to have a problem, they would take care of me.

Now keep in mind, this conversation was started on the premise that I was doing a budget build that I would be continuing to improve over time.
 This makes more sense. CMMG and Del-ton are frequently considered by people just building a budget build for casual use. If you are considering buying quality from the start, look for for some other companies to compare as well.
As for the rifle length, He was reccomending a midlength gas system with a low pro gas block and a rufle length handguard. Me being a rifle shooter, the longer handguards will make it more comfortable for me and a mid-length is going to be more reliable. BINGO! This is much much better than the Dissapator systems that have been marketed in the past, and a wholly different animal. The rifle length handguard he's talking about though will likely be a rail system unless you're going the Bushmaster-method of installing a gas block and then installing a front sight block near the muzzle. The lo-pro mid length setup from BCM with the DD Omega rifle length rail will be the setup I purchase next for the duties that don't involve going inside something. Sounds like you're looking for something along those lines as well possibly?

Another cool option is that I made a friend at Daniel Defense and he gave me his card and told me to call him about scratch and dent uppers that they have laying around the factory.:thumbup: This is one of the advantages of making contacts at SHOT I'm assuming... ;) My AR is a tool. It's not meant to look pretty, and will get scratches anyways.

Also was given a video and card from a fellow from the Noveske shooting team and he said that he could get me a line on one of their lightly used barrels.
Click to expand...
Noveske's are VERY highly regarded, and if you can snag those, do your build right and make sure you invest in good stuff for the long run.
 
the build project seems like its coming along well, i've been thinking about buying the ruger ar, anyone have any experiance with it?

take it easy
cricket
 
shotgunner11 said:
Another cool option is that I made a friend at Daniel Defense and he gave me his card and told me to call him about scratch and dent uppers that they have laying around the factory.:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Shotty (and everyone who reads this), A year or so ago I emailed Eotech and found they also sell refurbished demo models, halo sights and magnifiers. I bought one at almost half the price. It was a refurbished demo model that arrived like new, I could not tell the difference btwn a new and refurbished model.
 
For the same money as the Ruger, you can get an LWRC that frankly has a more proven track record and support.

Keep an eye on battery life time on the refurbished Eotech's. Rev F or not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top