The knife as an implement of death.......

[JCaswell]

Of course these things have been considered in the past over many thousands of years and you could easily get into a discussion of historic knife/sword forms and their efficacy in various context.:yawn:

In studying such things, it has become clear (to me anyway ) that the point is more deady on the whole than the edge because it's far easier and quicker to administer a mortal wound into the soft, squishy center of your opponent by penetration rather than by cutting, which requires an inherently oblique action versus the directness of the point.
Historically saber duels, for instance, were less deadly than epee duels which very often resulted in two dead participants, both stabbed through many times. With a saber (or large hacking blade) you usually have to push an edge through bone and tissue masses before any mortal damage is inflicted. With the epee/smallsword or similar pointy thing, it is a very little effort to get through such things, including clothing. Much more could be said, but ....:yawn:

Having said this, I'll submit this....
It's a broken epee (I have lots of 'em). It's very stiff and super quick and light--especially since the blade is only about 23 inches now (I think 20 inches would be about right for our scenario).
The cross section is triangular. When you sharpen it, it is not only pointy, but sharp on two edges for 3 or 4 inches toward the point. These edges cut really well too. Just vicious, yet understated.
Properly trained, the user should be able to easily "pick" the hand of an opponent who's using anything less than a complete bell guard, and if you're good, you can get around that too!
Plus a stiff 20-inch point is just so inherently dangerous to anything that isn't wearing plate.
Not as cool looking as Mace's beautiful knife, but I think quite effective.

(The digi-camo is to make it seem "tactical" --At least I didn't take a picture of it next to an AR-15 or something, like some guys do !

 

[Kiwi303]

Changing the focus slightly from 'A' knife, to a set of knives... one general purpose, with a thick solid chopping blade, that can be used for jobs from gutting a rabbit, to chopping branches to build a shelter. the butt should be a solid lump that can double as a hammer or nutcracker, nice wide flat and solid, I'd be looking at a thru tang, the butt screwed on, and a hole drilled though the side through the butt cap and tang end, and a pin screwed and peened in to stop it unscrewing under abuse. despite this weight at the rear the balance point should be forward of the ricasso to aid chopping motions, which would mean a thick blade, or deeper to the point similiar to a kukrhi?

one fighting knife, slender long light blade, like your fighting knife but with a more robust and sheltering guard to protect the fingers, something like a hooked quillion, so any oppodents blade you counter can't skip free and take off your fingers. Something that can be used do stick a pig, stick a man, counter thrusts or use main gauche. this knife is a weapon, sharpened false edge and the weight just forward of the ricasso.

finally the crowning point of the set, a leaf bladed spear, with crosstree, suitable to hold off bears, mad mama piggies that found you eating baby, or angry landowners finding you eating daisy the cow... or can be cast to bring down bambi. or used to attack another futuristic post-acalypse survivalista with a sword.

the last addition i'd make is a sling, 2 lengths of leather cord and a leather cup, which with practice can be used to down a bird on the wing, or an enemy on the charge. but mostly to bring down a rabbit on a grassy clearing.

and thus endeth the leacture on what the fashionable post acalypse survivalist is wearing in the coming days after bush invades North Korea and they nuke bush, and the pentagon fires the sub ICBMs at N Korea and china panics and fires of it's nukes back... and the shit hits the fan...

 

[ilbruche]

I would want something based on the falcata blade design. This one is from 4th century BC. I can only assume that in the year 7777 my opponent will be wearing a carbon fiber helmet and maybe some body armor. I would have the top edge sharpened also. I think you could really wreck somebody with one of these. Probably a 12-14" blade length.

 

[JCaswell]

Magnificent specimen! It belongs in MY safe!!
I would be surprised if it's less than 24 inches long.

 

[ilbruche]

I guess I just picture the year 7777 crawling with crazed mutant zombies and malfunctioning androids. And if the object is to kill I would want something that doesn't require a second strike. I think the Falcata or Kopis designs from the mediterranean would be pretty devastating even if made smaller. I wouldn't want to wait for an opponent to bleed out, I'd want to be lopping arms and heads off. I also like to go back to the origins of blade designs when they were made to kill and do so efficiently.

 

[gunfiter]

I know you asked for a knife that doesn't exist, but, I'm thinking one that does. A naval boarding cutlass, only with a slightly shorter blade. They were designed for man to man fighting by guys who didn't get much real training. This seems to say "instinctive use" to me. Most came with a half or partial bell guard which you could slim down, slight curve to the blade to aid the slash, but a good thrusting point too.

 

[Bigfattyt]

there you go, lets see pics of others fighting knife ideas?

I have almost exactly that same bayonet. Throws great. Been throwing it for decades, no joke. Always thought it would make a super mean sharp pokie if I ever actually put an edge back on it.

I am a big fan of large bowies, with sharpened clips for the back cut, and skull crusher pommel.

The Crossada looks like a nasty purpose built fighting knife.

I also think the comment about the Black Bear Classic for a pure fighting knife is also a good one. Good reach, fast, good for poking.

 

[steelshaper]

A guard big enough to protect your hand but not get in the way. A textured grip on a full tang that has a nice transitional slope to the guard for comfort and a sure grip. Lanyard. Tang thicker at but with the tang extended past the scales. The butt should be rounded like a hammer. Mild recurve to primary edge. Sharp false edge. A mild convex grind. Weight forward. No choil. Something like a streched out doble edged kukrhi with a 12 inch blade. It should hack as well as stab.

I have been thinking about this for a while. And have been testing some designs (not on flesh mind you). The knife to best all knives. Remember before ther where guns swords ruled. What kind was best is like apples to ornges. Should we start a club or group to test out battle blades? Is there on all ready?

One last question could a civil war saber compare to a hand and a half sword held by a fully armourd knight? I realize that this does not follow the original qoestion but I am pondering what would the ultimate knife be.

 

[Greg Obach]

deadly ... hmmm

i'd go with the more historic stuff... like persian khanjar, pesh kabz, dirk, kukri, and bowie..... i think alot of the modern military stuff is on the cheap..

should have a 10 to 15 inch blade, full grind
sharp swedge or clip
small guard (steel )
abit of width to blade ( no stilleto )
NO stainless steel !!! or plastic space handles !!
full distal
an uncluttered handle.... no finger crap
handle size fit to users grip (what feels comfortable)
thong hole
abit of a larger pommel to make it easy to keep in the hand when chopping

basically... it should do well in the hack/chop ... piercing (decent wound channel) ..... and should give the user confidence in its capability and appearance...

opinions are opinions.. and everyones gonna be different on this one !!

G

 

[Dan Gray]

I never thought about it before
but this would make a hell of hole coming back out

the new vertion in the makings
(I just got 14 of the bevels ground today)
has a thumb ramp, a finger gaurd and lashing holes added.

 

[mndart]

Of course these things have been considered in the past over many thousands of years and you could easily get into a discussion of historic knife/sword forms and their efficacy in various context.:yawn:

In studying such things, it has become clear (to me anyway ) that the point is more deady on the whole than the edge ....

Ditto to that. I am not trained in mortal combat, however a very good friend of mine was a special forces fellow in Nam. He took lives as well as trained soldiers to take lives.

He has seen nearly every tactical knife I have ever had and has repeatedly told me that none are equipped to "do the job". His comments are aligned as above. Stabbing with a fatal blow is the best way to get er done, 7" blade minimum to ensure this effect, and that the big fat tantos and large spearpoints and drops won't penetrate clothes, tissue, muscle and bone worth a crap. He likens blades along the lines of the Bowie blade or the Arkansas toothpicks to be the correct tool for the job. He has also mentioned ice picks to be very lethal.

That said, I may be gullible; but I trust the man's word. He lived (rather that died) by this knowledge.

 

[JCaswell]

.... He has also mentioned ice picks to be very lethal.

That's why I like the epee. How can you argue with a fast, 32-inch ice pick with hand protection?

Some time ago I took a broken one an sharpened it up and tried it on a bunch of stuff from drywall to plywood... just awesome, effortless penetrating power.

Guys think you need a big flat blade to cause damage, but that's just not true ...

There was a famous duelist, for instance, that made it his mission to challenge and kill Bonapartists. He said, "It's not hitting that matters. It's hitting and hurting.."
He went on to describe how just about any hit to the center with the epee (or smallsword) could be made lethal by almost imperceptible movement of the hand from one line to another once the point (with those sharp edges) was in.
Since his goal was to kill, he had to do this subtly, since taking such advantage as to deliberately kill his opponent in such a fashion (when the hit alone should have satisfied) would be bad sport indeed, even in a duel.

A disadvantage of these weapons is that you can't chop firewood, butcher game, hack through brush, etc. Perhaps not as versatile in the post-appocolyptic world ...

 

[Kiwi303]

A disadvantage of these weapons is that you can't chop firewood, butcher game, hack through brush, etc. Perhaps not as versatile in the post-appocolyptic world ...

Thats why i posted a three set GP knife, Fighting knife, and hunting spear.

most soldiers in the medievel days were just serf and villeins off the farms following their squire or knight off to the battle fieid with their boar spears and a big knife. Only the nobs got swords and armour, the footmen would have been lucky to have been able to afford some leather curuisses made from scraps of ox hide.

 

[J.Marsillo]

Great thread ! For the implement of death something like a Sai would be my choice (or the epee:thumbup: ) Round holes dont close up very well and they sure do get through most protection with ease.

The survival/chore knife would be Busse'ish.

 

[jdm61]

Great thread ! For the implement of death something like a Sai would be my choice (or the epee:thumbup: ) Round holes dont close up very well and they sure do get through most protection with ease.

The survival/chore knife would be Busse'ish.

Now take that guard shape, put an 11 inch bowie blade wih a sharpened clip and what do you have A Bagwell Hell's Belle, I do believe And a round hole isn't 14-3/8 wide and 1 1/2 to 2 inches long. Remeber.....the question was what KNIFE, not what sword and an epee is a sword. If you want to talk swords, how about a nicely tapered boarding cutlass with the top edge sharpened about 6 inches back? The eppe is very good in defense because it is so long and fast, you can keep people away,but in any attack other than a thrust, seems to me that the sharpened edges aren't all that good for much unless you are planning to give your opponent a nice dueling scar on his cheek.

 

[J.Marsillo]

Now take that guard shape, put an 11 inch bowie blade wih a sharpened clip and what do you have A Bagwell Hell's Belle, I do believe And a round hole isn't 14-3/8 wide and 1 1/2 to 2 inches long. Remeber.....the question was what KNIFE, not what sword and an epee is a sword. If you want to talk swords, how about a nicely tapered boarding cutlass with the top edge sharpened about 6 inches back? The eppe is very good in defense because it is so long and fast, you can keep people away,but in any attack other than a thrust, seems to me that the sharpened edges aren't all that good for much unless you are planning to give your opponent a nice dueling scar on his cheek.

Ok you talked me into it

And a round hole isn't 14-3/8 wide and 1 1/2 to 2 inches long

I'll cut you long wide and deep motorhead

Maybe it should be a cheese burger....the quickest way to a mans heart is through his stomach

 

[Jared Stenoien]

If we were talking swords I'd have a rapier and buckler

 

[NDallyn]

If length was no issue, I'd want something like a Roman Gladius (24-32" overall). Small enough to use one-handed and in tight quarters, heavy enough to crack armor, bones, etc.

For something with a 12" blade or less, I'd have to pick a khukri or a leaf style blade (like a smatchet). I would not be confident with anything with a steep clip-point or acute tip angle (like a fairbarn-sykes dagger) as a broken tip would decrease the effectiveness of the blade significantly and I'm assuming that a replacement would not be readily available. The two-types I've mentioned are both on the tip-heavy side of things, which would aid in chopping or slashing cuts.

 

[Mace]

Cheese burger!!! LMAO!

Ideas I like so far:

Aspects of the epee grip.

Dans chainsaw spine(not for cutting wood)

ice pick/spike..........

Still thinking about this. More ideas welcome.:thumbup:
Mace

 

[jdm61]

I think if you try to figure out what the ultimate fighting blade is, you get stuck because there are different eras in which blades had to be quite different. Even if we stick to just Iron age and later blades, I think that, at a minumum, you have to split blades into at least three categories.
1. Before plate armour
2. plate armour era
3. no armour BUT now we have firearms. This could be further divided between the era of muzzle loading single shot and cartridge and/or repeating firearms ( a nod to you guys who will call me out on excluding the original cap and ball repeaters), because during the single shot muzzle loading era, the edged weapon was still fairly important, albeit not quite as important and not requiring nearly as much training time as before firearms were introduced. I would place this divide in the middle of the 19th Century. At this point, edged weapons cease to be a primary weapons for close range fighting and start to become a "weapon of last resort"