The latest Ganzo Firebird D2 knives

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Hackenslash said:
There are many problems with this point of view.


First, there is only one market and one customer. The market is "knives" and the customer is "knife user". The existence of the second market/customer is a fallacy. In the absence of clone and copycat knives, this synthetic market will not exist. It requires the illegal/immoral action of a producer to create this "second" market. In an environment where knife designs, styles and features have NOT been stolen, the knife consumer will make other choices if they are unwilling or unable to obtain their target knife. Perhaps they'll chose a different knife from the same maker. Perhaps they'll choose an alternate original design from a different maker. Any of these actions honor the labor of legit knife designers and manufacturers. There is one certainty; they won't chose a clone knife, to the detriment of the original maker, if they're not available.



Second, how can you be so sure? At this, you can only speak for yourself. There have been many, many threads on this forum of a member asking about a particular knife that they desire. Sometimes they can't get the knife due to price. Sometimes they can't get the knife due to availability. Helpful members will offer the poster suggestions and ideas for an acceptable replacement. Sometimes the poster comes back with news of a replacement purchase. Sometimes they show up with the knife in question after having saved for it. I tend to believe that many of those who purchase a clone knife are unaware the knife is a copy. The cloners rely on ignorance and selfishness to prop up their sales. That's why Blade Forums seems to react like a fire ant nest to the question of clones or copies. Its places like this that can take a stand against the ignorance that abets the sale of clone knives. We usually can't do much about selfishness.



Third, we DO know. At least from a few specific manufacturers. Sal Glesser at Spyderco has been outspoken concerning the damage that copies of Spyderco designs have done to their business. Spyderco continues to spend significant funds litigating against sellers of clone and copy knives, mostly with fairly mixed success. Such is the nature of litigation. Why don't we hear more about other manufacturers and their fight against clones? Well, I have a theory. Take if for what it's worth. Some have accepted that they will lose a certain amount of revenue each year to clones and copies. They book the loss to their bottom line and consider it an "operating expense". Others may be actively involved in a fight and opt to keep it private, perhaps to not publicize the presence of a clone or to comply with court settlements. Either way, it's unacceptable that clones exist. We may never win the fight to eradicate them, but I'm certain Spyderco and others will continue the fight and I'd love to help them in any way I can.

There's probably much more to say concerning your statement, but I don't want you to feel like you're being picked apart. In general, the entire attitude is wrong. There are moral and logical fails embedded all through it:

I want [X]
The price of [X] is greater than I am willing to pay
A [Copy of X] exists at a price that I like
The [Copy of X] is damaging to [X]
I buy the [Copy of X] because what I want is more important than [X]
[X] is diminished due to my actions

There's much flawed entitlement in this logic path. The bolded words should make it clear without me running on further.

Ebenvoila Ebenvoila , you came here and asked a question about knives. You've gotten a wide range of answers, but even those who say go ahead and buy the Firebird will acknowledge that Ganzo steals designs. Despite the info thrown in your direction, you seem to be seeking rationalization to purchase a Ganzo. I might be wrong, but it feels like you knew what you were going to do before you asked. I'm beginning to question whether you came seeking answers or to stoke a multi-page Ganzo thread that lives on the front page of Blade Forums for a few days. At the end of the day, only you can decide what's right for you. I don't think any of us can say more about this topic at this time. Good luck with your knife purchases.
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DAYUM!!!
Honest, succinct, and downright brutal! I wish I could've liked it twice. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Thank you for taking the time to organize your thoughts and type them out. We need to remember to point these things out in this way so it is easier for folks following the thread to get the correct information in one go without having to follow the back & forth discussion/argument/bickering that these threads almost always devolve into. I know a great deal of us have posted very similar statements on very similar threads, many times over the years (props to @craytab). It can get quite exhausting when these come up almost on a monthly basis and we sometimes don't have the mental energy to do it.

I think I'm going to quote this post to any future Ganzo thread that I come across in the future. Regardless of subject matter.
If that's ok with you.
 
NorthernSouthpaw said:
DAYUM!!!
Honest, succinct, and downright brutal! I wish I could've liked it twice. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Thank you for taking the time to organize your thoughts and type them out. We need to remember to point these things out in this way so it is easier for folks following the thread to get the correct information in one go without having to follow the back & forth discussion/argument/bickering that these threads almost always devolve into. I know a great deal of us have posted very similar statements on very similar threads, many times over the years (props to @craytab). It can get quite exhausting when these come up almost on a monthly basis and we sometimes don't have the mental energy to do it.

I think I'm going to quote this post to any future Ganzo thread that I come across in the future. Regardless of subject matter.
If that's ok with you.
Click to expand...
Feel free to use, copy, quote or adapt. If it helps spread knowledge, all is good.

We've all done it; exhausted ourselves trying to convince a new member why they shouldn't support a cloner, only to have a new thread pop up in a week :eek:. After a while, its easy to feel like its not worth the effort.
 
danbot said:
Sal Glesser is the owner of Spyderco.

Here's a partial quote from his sub-forum.
Click to expand...

Thanks for digging this up. Not that it will matter in the slightest to some of you, but there is a distinction to make. "Ganzo" copies designs but does not make counterfeits. The counterfeits specifically mentioned in the first paragraph of your quote from Sal are coming from a bunch of other companies.

Obviously, the disrespectful actions discussed in the second paragraph are unacceptable. This and the copying are unquestionably bad. However, I do still like some of the original designs Ganzo has brought to the market. Especially when they first launched the FH line, the value for the dollar was pretty good. Even now, so much of that part of the market involves lower quality and worse materials. I think Ganzo could be so much more if they would just cut out the (expletive deleted).

Yeah, I know some people here would never forgive them in a million years. That's another reason I spent all the time I did previously talking about unknowns and the fuzzy boundaries within Chinese manufacturing. We'll never know who all the bad actors are, where they are, who they are with, or how rapidly they cycle within a particular company. This is also why I put quotes around Ganzo in my first paragraph above. The name is what has mattered here in this thread. It's the thumb tack where we hang these associations. Just as I've said, "for all we know, some of the haters here have Ganzo-made knives and don't know it", we also don't know if they have a sideline in actual counterfeits without their name attached. I guess my skepticism and the acknowledgement of our epistemic limits here keep me adverse to strong, permanent, and uncompromising judgements.
 
Chronovore said:
Thanks for digging this up. Not that it will matter in the slightest to some of you, but there is a distinction to make. "Ganzo" copies designs but does not make counterfeits. The counterfeits specifically mentioned in the first paragraph of your quote from Sal are coming from a bunch of other companies.

Obviously, the disrespectful actions discussed in the second paragraph are unacceptable. This and the copying are unquestionably bad. However, I do still like some of the original designs Ganzo has brought to the market. Especially when they first launched the FH line, the value for the dollar was pretty good. Even now, so much of that part of the market involves lower quality and worse materials. I think Ganzo could be so much more if they would just cut out the (expletive deleted).

Yeah, I know some people here would never forgive them in a million years. That's another reason I spent all the time I did previously talking about unknowns and the fuzzy boundaries within Chinese manufacturing. We'll never know who all the bad actors are, where they are, who they are with, or how rapidly they cycle within a particular company. This is also why I put quotes around Ganzo in my first paragraph above. The name is what has mattered here in this thread. It's the thumb tack where we hang these associations. Just as I've said, "for all we know, some of the haters here have Ganzo-made knives and don't know it", we also don't know if they have a sideline in actual counterfeits without their name attached. I guess my skepticism and the acknowledgement of our epistemic limits here keep me adverse to strong, permanent, and uncompromising judgements.
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(facepalm that people across the street can hear)

"There's an important distin....NO. Trash is trash. Ganzo is a garbage company who took the work and reputation of others and sold it as their own.

The way these garbage company defender drones keep trying to squirm are absolutely ridiculous. Semantics doesn't win arguments.

You really seem to have trouble grasping this, despite your repeated attempts at weaseling past the facts.
 
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Quiet Quiet , those aren't semantics. There is an actual difference between copies and counterfeits, both in general and in the quoted section from Sal. This is indisputable fact. I pointed it out because it is relevant. If anything, conflating the two seems "squirmy" to me. Of course, I wrote a whole bunch more than that. Maybe slapping your own face hard enough to hear from across the street affected your reading comprehension and made me look like a "drone". Seek medical attention.

Hackenslash Hackenslash , while there are obviously more than two tiers, the difference between market tiers seems less "synthetic versus actual" and more a matter of budget. For instance, there are lots of people who only shop within certain budget boundaries. When that boundary is very low, such as $20 or $30, then they definitely won't have most of those originals in their selection pool. In that case, they were not a potential customer at the time of purchase and therefore could not constitute "lost business".

One pro-Ganzo argument I've seen (maybe from Frankie and Bird) involves that group of people. Having that low of a knife budget can be temporary. Sometimes, people start with a budget that low and it causes them to get into knives, acting as a "gateway". As their budget goes up and the originals enter their selection pool, and their knowledge of materials and workmanship expand, their experiences with the copy can influence them to buy the original. I know some people will jerk their knee against this possibility, but I've actually seen it happen twice IRL.

One guy started with a Ganzo copy of the Ontario Rat. It was probably his first online knife purchase. After losing it, he bought an actual Ontario Rat. The other case was more dramatic. The second guy made the jump from cheap gas-station and hardware-store knives to a sub-$20 Spyderco knock-off from Ganzo. He really liked it and to be fair, it probably was a step up in quality for him. That excitement led him to pony up for a Byrd model. The last time I saw him, he was carrying an actual Spyderco. Obviously, this only proves that it can happen, not how often it will happen or how it balances against other consumer decisions.
 
Chronovore said:
Thanks for digging this up. Not that it will matter in the slightest to some of you, but there is a distinction to make. "Ganzo" copies designs but does not make counterfeits. The counterfeits specifically mentioned in the first paragraph of your quote from Sal are coming from a bunch of other companies.

Obviously, the disrespectful actions discussed in the second paragraph are unacceptable. This and the copying are unquestionably bad. However, I do still like some of the original designs Ganzo has brought to the market. Especially when they first launched the FH line, the value for the dollar was pretty good. Even now, so much of that part of the market involves lower quality and worse materials. I think Ganzo could be so much more if they would just cut out the (expletive deleted).

Yeah, I know some people here would never forgive them in a million years. That's another reason I spent all the time I did previously talking about unknowns and the fuzzy boundaries within Chinese manufacturing. We'll never know who all the bad actors are, where they are, who they are with, or how rapidly they cycle within a particular company. This is also why I put quotes around Ganzo in my first paragraph above. The name is what has mattered here in this thread. It's the thumb tack where we hang these associations. Just as I've said, "for all we know, some of the haters here have Ganzo-made knives and don't know it", we also don't know if they have a sideline in actual counterfeits without their name attached. I guess my skepticism and the acknowledgement of our epistemic limits here keep me adverse to strong, permanent, and uncompromising judgements.
Click to expand...

Tell it to Sal.

bXv6Rtj.jpg
 
Chronovore said:
Thanks for digging this up. Not that it will matter in the slightest to some of you, but there is a distinction to make. "Ganzo" copies designs but does not make counterfeits. The counterfeits specifically mentioned in the first paragraph of your quote from Sal are coming from a bunch of other companies.

Obviously, the disrespectful actions discussed in the second paragraph are unacceptable. This and the copying are unquestionably bad. However, I do still like some of the original designs Ganzo has brought to the market. Especially when they first launched the FH line, the value for the dollar was pretty good. Even now, so much of that part of the market involves lower quality and worse materials. I think Ganzo could be so much more if they would just cut out the (expletive deleted).

Yeah, I know some people here would never forgive them in a million years. That's another reason I spent all the time I did previously talking about unknowns and the fuzzy boundaries within Chinese manufacturing. We'll never know who all the bad actors are, where they are, who they are with, or how rapidly they cycle within a particular company. This is also why I put quotes around Ganzo in my first paragraph above. The name is what has mattered here in this thread. It's the thumb tack where we hang these associations. Just as I've said, "for all we know, some of the haters here have Ganzo-made knives and don't know it", we also don't know if they have a sideline in actual counterfeits without their name attached. I guess my skepticism and the acknowledgement of our epistemic limits here keep me adverse to strong, permanent, and uncompromising judgements.
Click to expand...
I have considered all of the arguments made for compromise and forgiveness etc. and have come to the conclusion that all such arguments are very weak.
Ganzo has happily built their reputation on years and years of outright theft and nose thumbing at the companies that I respect and value. They have earned their bad reputation and they now have the reputation that they deserve. Who am I to try and take that away from them? ;)
I can very easily continue to build a collection of knives that I can take pride of ownership in without Ganzo's offerings, no matter how original the design may be.
 
Chronovore said:
Quiet Quiet , those aren't semantics. There is an actual difference between copies and counterfeits, both in general and in the quoted section from Sal. This is indisputable fact. I pointed it out because it is relevant. If anything, conflating the two seems "squirmy" to me. Of course, I wrote a whole bunch more than that. Maybe slapping your own face hard enough to hear from across the street affected your reading comprehension and made me look like a "drone". Seek medical attention.

Hackenslash Hackenslash , while there are obviously more than two tiers, the difference between market tiers seems less "synthetic versus actual" and more a matter of budget. For instance, there are lots of people who only shop within certain budget boundaries. When that boundary is very low, such as $20 or $30, then they definitely won't have most of those originals in their selection pool. In that case, they were not a potential customer at the time of purchase and therefore could not constitute "lost business".

One pro-Ganzo argument I've seen (maybe from Frankie and Bird) involves that group of people. Having that low of a knife budget can be temporary. Sometimes, people start with a budget that low and it causes them to get into knives, acting as a "gateway". As their budget goes up and the originals enter their selection pool, and their knowledge of materials and workmanship expand, their experiences with the copy can influence them to buy the original. I know some people will jerk their knee against this possibility, but I've actually seen it happen twice IRL.

One guy started with a Ganzo copy of the Ontario Rat. It was probably his first online knife purchase. After losing it, he bought an actual Ontario Rat. The other case was more dramatic. The second guy made the jump from cheap gas-station and hardware-store knives to a sub-$20 Spyderco knock-off from Ganzo. He really liked it and to be fair, it probably was a step up in quality for him. That excitement led him to pony up for a Byrd model. The last time I saw him, he was carrying an actual Spyderco. Obviously, this only proves that it can happen, not how often it will happen or how it balances against other consumer decisions.
Click to expand...

No, just no. There are only differences to people like you who have no issue with garbage scumbag companies because you personally were not inconvenienced or stolen from. I can't help but wonder if you'd be alright with someone say, breaking into your home and stealing a bunch of expensive things from you, getting caught, and then being let off with a technicality.

Would you let that person come be your housekeeper? Given your responses in here, I think you would. But then, that's because you're an apologist for a scumbag company who has made money off the work of others.

Disgusting.
 
Chronovore said:
Quiet Quiet , those aren't semantics. There is an actual difference between copies and counterfeits, both in general and in the quoted section from Sal. This is indisputable fact. I pointed it out because it is relevant. If anything, conflating the two seems "squirmy" to me. Of course, I wrote a whole bunch more than that. Maybe slapping your own face hard enough to hear from across the street affected your reading comprehension and made me look like a "drone". Seek medical attention.

Hackenslash Hackenslash , while there are obviously more than two tiers, the difference between market tiers seems less "synthetic versus actual" and more a matter of budget. For instance, there are lots of people who only shop within certain budget boundaries. When that boundary is very low, such as $20 or $30, then they definitely won't have most of those originals in their selection pool. In that case, they were not a potential customer at the time of purchase and therefore could not constitute "lost business".

One pro-Ganzo argument I've seen (maybe from Frankie and Bird) involves that group of people. Having that low of a knife budget can be temporary. Sometimes, people start with a budget that low and it causes them to get into knives, acting as a "gateway". As their budget goes up and the originals enter their selection pool, and their knowledge of materials and workmanship expand, their experiences with the copy can influence them to buy the original. I know some people will jerk their knee against this possibility, but I've actually seen it happen twice IRL.

One guy started with a Ganzo copy of the Ontario Rat. It was probably his first online knife purchase. After losing it, he bought an actual Ontario Rat. The other case was more dramatic. The second guy made the jump from cheap gas-station and hardware-store knives to a sub-$20 Spyderco knock-off from Ganzo. He really liked it and to be fair, it probably was a step up in quality for him. That excitement led him to pony up for a Byrd model. The last time I saw him, he was carrying an actual Spyderco. Obviously, this only proves that it can happen, not how often it will happen or how it balances against other consumer decisions.
Click to expand...

You should direct the future budget-strapped-gateway-knife-buyer here:

https://www.bladehq.com/?search=byrd

Also, name dropping a pair of YouTube knuckleheads doesn't bolster your argument.
 
danbot said:
I have considered all of the arguments made for compromise and forgiveness etc. and have come to the conclusion that all such arguments are very weak.
Ganzo has happily built their reputation on years and years of outright theft and nose thumbing at the companies that I respect and value. They have earned their bad reputation and they now have the reputation that they deserve. Who am I to try and take that away from them? ;)
I can very easily continue to build a collection of knives that I can take pride of ownership in without Ganzo's offerings, no matter how original the design may be.
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Oh, but, but (insert mealy-mouthed handwringing here) shouldn't we just give them a chance? I mean, they're totally going legit, and that's gotta be something we should definitely reward with our money, right? Also, you should really brush up on Chinese manufacturing, because you see, if you only knew more about it you'd totally give them a pass. And your money!

Don't they deserve a chance? They do, right? They're not bad guys! They totally didn't produce counterfeits! They just made knives of inferior materials that had the same blade shape and handle shape as some other knives. That's not really THAT big a deal, right? It's a totally different thing!

Right?

LOL
 
Quiet said:
No, just no. There are only differences to people like you who have no issue with garbage scumbag companies because you personally were not inconvenienced or stolen from. I can't help but wonder if you'd be alright with someone say, breaking into your home and stealing a bunch of expensive things from you, getting caught, and then being let off with a technicality.

Would you let that person come be your housekeeper? Given your responses in here, I think you would. But then, that's because you're an apologist for a scumbag company who has made money off the work of others.

Disgusting.
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It's OK. The burglar just wanted that stuff more than the rightful owners. What about the burglar's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
 
Danke42 said:
It's OK. The burglar just wanted that stuff more than the rightful owners. What about the burglar's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
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Pretty cool though, that the original owner paid thousands of dollars for their things and the thief can still make money selling it all for pennies on the dollar!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
danbot said:
Pretty cool though, that the original owner paid thousands of dollars for their things and the thief can still make money selling it all for pennies on the dollar!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Click to expand...

And...And...The thief might just develop a true appreciation for those goods and maybe one day use funds from a burglary to go to say...pottery school or learn the electronics trade or who knows what else. Then we can buy his goods or services to reinforce his positive direction change. Even if he's currently still burglarizing on his off hours, he needs our help and money to show him the right path.
 
:)
Hackenslash said:
There are many problems with this point of view.


First, there is only one market and one customer. The market is "knives" and the customer is "knife user". The existence of the second market/customer is a fallacy. In the absence of clone and copycat knives, this synthetic market will not exist. It requires the illegal/immoral action of a producer to create this "second" market. In an environment where knife designs, styles and features have NOT been stolen, the knife consumer will make other choices if they are unwilling or unable to obtain their target knife. Perhaps they'll chose a different knife from the same maker. Perhaps they'll choose an alternate original design from a different maker. Any of these actions honor the labor of legit knife designers and manufacturers. There is one certainty; they won't chose a clone knife, to the detriment of the original maker, if they're not available.



Second, how can you be so sure? At this, you can only speak for yourself. There have been many, many threads on this forum of a member asking about a particular knife that they desire. Sometimes they can't get the knife due to price. Sometimes they can't get the knife due to availability. Helpful members will offer the poster suggestions and ideas for an acceptable replacement. Sometimes the poster comes back with news of a replacement purchase. Sometimes they show up with the knife in question after having saved for it. I tend to believe that many of those who purchase a clone knife are unaware the knife is a copy. The cloners rely on ignorance and selfishness to prop up their sales. That's why Blade Forums seems to react like a fire ant nest to the question of clones or copies. Its places like this that can take a stand against the ignorance that abets the sale of clone knives. We usually can't do much about selfishness.



Third, we DO know. At least from a few specific manufacturers. Sal Glesser at Spyderco has been outspoken concerning the damage that copies of Spyderco designs have done to their business. Spyderco continues to spend significant funds litigating against sellers of clone and copy knives, mostly with fairly mixed success. Such is the nature of litigation. Why don't we hear more about other manufacturers and their fight against clones? Well, I have a theory. Take if for what it's worth. Some have accepted that they will lose a certain amount of revenue each year to clones and copies. They book the loss to their bottom line and consider it an "operating expense". Others may be actively involved in a fight and opt to keep it private, perhaps to not publicize the presence of a clone or to comply with court settlements. Either way, it's unacceptable that clones exist. We may never win the fight to eradicate them, but I'm certain Spyderco and others will continue the fight and I'd love to help them in any way I can.

There's probably much more to say concerning your statement, but I don't want you to feel like you're being picked apart. In general, the entire attitude is wrong. There are moral and logical fails embedded all through it:

I want [X]
The price of [X] is greater than I am willing to pay
A [Copy of X] exists at a price that I like
The [Copy of X] is damaging to [X]
I buy the [Copy of X] because what I want is more important than [X]
[X] is diminished due to my actions

There's much flawed entitlement in this logic path. The bolded words should make it clear without me running on further.

Ebenvoila Ebenvoila , you came here and asked a question about knives. You've gotten a wide range of answers, but even those who say go ahead and buy the Firebird will acknowledge that Ganzo steals designs. Despite the info thrown in your direction, you seem to be seeking rationalization to purchase a Ganzo. I might be wrong, but it feels like you knew what you were going to do before you asked. I'm beginning to question whether you came seeking answers or to stoke a multi-page Ganzo thread that lives on the front page of Blade Forums for a few days. At the end of the day, only you can decide what's right for you. I don't think any of us can say more about this topic at this time. Good luck with your knife purchases.
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Yes!!!:)

Chronovore said:
Thanks for digging this up. Not that it will matter in the slightest to some of you, but there is a distinction to make. "Ganzo" copies designs but does not make counterfeits. The counterfeits specifically mentioned in the first paragraph of your quote from Sal are coming from a bunch of other companies.

Obviously, the disrespectful actions discussed in the second paragraph are unacceptable. This and the copying are unquestionably bad. However, I do still like some of the original designs Ganzo has brought to the market. Especially when they first launched the FH line, the value for the dollar was pretty good. Even now, so much of that part of the market involves lower quality and worse materials. I think Ganzo could be so much more if they would just cut out the (expletive deleted).

Yeah, I know some people here would never forgive them in a million years. That's another reason I spent all the time I did previously talking about unknowns and the fuzzy boundaries within Chinese manufacturing. We'll never know who all the bad actors are, where they are, who they are with, or how rapidly they cycle within a particular company. This is also why I put quotes around Ganzo in my first paragraph above. The name is what has mattered here in this thread. It's the thumb tack where we hang these associations. Just as I've said, "for all we know, some of the haters here have Ganzo-made knives and don't know it", we also don't know if they have a sideline in actual counterfeits without their name attached. I guess my skepticism and the acknowledgement of our epistemic limits here keep me adverse to strong, permanent, and uncompromising judgements.
Click to expand...

No.:(
 
Danke42 said:
It's OK. The burglar just wanted that stuff more than the rightful owners. What about the burglar's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
Click to expand...

And then the burglar walks up to Chronovore like "Yo man, thank you so much! Thanks to your stuff, I was able to sell it and feed my family!"

LOL Sounds like a hell of a guy.
 
Quiet said:
And then the burglar walks up to Chronovore like "Yo man, thank you so much! Thanks to your stuff, I was able to sell it and feed my family!"

LOL Sounds like a hell of a guy.
Click to expand...
Hell of a guy! Great stories too. Might call you around midnight to help move a heavy rolled up rug.
 
Eli Chaps said:
You should direct the future budget-strapped-gateway-knife-buyer here:

https://www.bladehq.com/?search=byrd

Also, name dropping a pair of YouTube knuckleheads doesn't bolster your argument.
Click to expand...

Why do I take flack for referencing a popular YouTube reviewer? Whether Kevin Cleary, Frankie and Bird, Outpost76, Super Steel Steve, or LTK; I bring something from their channels into the discussion here and someone blasts me for it.

Coincidentally, I don't usually recommend Ganzo to people. In the $20-30 range, I typically recommend Ruike or Kizer's Tangram line.

BTW, did you see where I mentioned Byrd?
 
Quiet said:
And then the burglar walks up to Chronovore like "Yo man, thank you so much! Thanks to your stuff, I was able to sell it and feed my family!"

LOL Sounds like a hell of a guy.
Click to expand...

I hate taking this back to the classroom but there is also a key difference between burglars and copycats.

The burglar takes a particular thing and the victim loses that thing, 1:1 for that thing plus any corollary damages.

The copycat copies a concept or design and may be committing theft depending on the legal definitions in their respective jurisdictions. They produce something based on it. They sell it on a market. Actual damage is very hard to accurately calculate.

But hey, why argue complicated stuff like that? Listening to you, copying, counterfeiting, and burglary are all the same thing. How about armed robbery? It's only semantics, right?
 
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