The latest Ganzo Firebird D2 knives

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Puppadore said:
Basically, i just use the tags as a guideline. If it is made in Japan, i wont buy it even if it is a Spyderco.

But even when it is made in US, i would prefer something like Mic Strider, than Liong Ma
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You should really do your research on Mick Strider Burger.

If someone held a gun to my head and forced me to take a Ganzo or a Strider, I'd take the Ganzo.
 
Going back on topic, this has been a rather interesting thread. To sum up my thoughts, I’m just one consumer, but I don’t support Ganzo and it is terrible that they steal designs from other makers. Not getting one cent out of me lads.

Another man’s knife preferences are his own and his hard-earned money is his to spend. I don’t have any say in what you choose to purchase. But I hope that the take-away from this thread is choosing your acquisitions wisely. These thieves won’t necessarily bring down legitimate knife makers, but they still hurt the sales of the original makers. If you want to be a part of that, that’s entirely up to you.

Have a good day, fellas.
 
I don't know how much it will hurt the sales of the original makers, but we all know that the prices are different, the items are different. So I'm sure someone who is buying a copy, wouldn't buy the original because of the price. And the one who buys the original can do it, and knows why it does. These are 2 different markets for 2 different customers and maybe even 2 different uses.
 
Ebenvoila said:
I don't know how much it will hurt the sales of the original makers, but we all know that the prices are different, the items are different. So I'm sure someone who is buying a copy, wouldn't buy the original because of the price. And the one who buys the original can do it, and knows why it does. These are 2 different markets for 2 different customers and maybe even 2 different uses.
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This is another argument clone supporters use to justify their support. It is not true according to sal. Ganzo has absolutely hurt his business.
 
Whose business? Which brand particularly? Benchmade, Spyderco, OKC...?
 
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Ebenvoila said:
Whose business? Which brand particularly? Benchmade, Spyderco, OKC...?
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Sal Glesser is the owner of Spyderco.

Here's a partial quote from his sub-forum.
Sal Glesser said:
FYI, 99% of our counterfeits are made in China. They copy our designs, our boxes and our literature. They put Spyderco and USA on the knives. We are forced to spend tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to try to protect our own hard earned reputation. I guess you think this is honorable, fair and proper as well?

Also, we met the Ganzo team. They came to our booth in Germany. The President, Sales manager and their group. Their behavior was so disrespectful, we had to ask them to leave out booth and forced them to delete the pictures of our prototypes their President took, around the "No Photos Please" sign. I am not a fan.

Respectfully,

sal
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Ebenvoila said:
Whose business? Which brand particularly? Benchmade, Spyderco, OKC...?
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Please don't take offense to this, it is not meant that way. If you don't know who sal is, you need to do a lot more reading.

danbot said:
Sal Glesser is the owner of Spyderco.

Here's a partial quote from his sub-forum.
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Yes. Exactly. That is a great quote from sal that really displays the scumbag nature of ganzo. Why some people defend this brand in any way is beyond me.
 
Eli Chaps said:
If someone held a gun to my head and forced me to take a Ganzo or a Strider, I'd take the Ganzo.
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That's stupid. You know very well you could take the Strider, sell it for a bundle to some "high speed low drag operator", and buy yourself a real knife from an upstanding, honest company.
 
craytab said:
Please don't take offense to this, it is not meant that way. If you don't know who sal is, you need to do a lot more reading.


Yes. Exactly. That is a great quote from sal that really displays the scumbag nature of ganzo. Why some people defend this brand in any way is beyond me.
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I have always had the impression that it's primarily the people who don't have the means to buy better knives but instead of wanting to improve their situation to where they have the discretionary income to do so, they simply jump on the "IT'S JUST AS GOOD!" train. That might sound arrogant, but actually, you see this in pretty much any hobby. Heh, ever seen any of the threads on various gun forums when Hi-Point dudes come in and talk about how people are just mad their bricks are just as good as everyone else's actual quality firearms? Criminy.

Also, people are just bad with money. Speaking of things way beyond me, why would you spend the money on trash when you could simply save up for another few weeks, maybe do without some other luxury, so you could buy the actual quality item, not the garbage item from a worthless scumbag company that's made to look the quality item? I just don't get it.
 
Quiet said:
I have always had the impression that it's primarily the people who don't have the means to buy better knives but instead of wanting to improve their situation to where they have the discretionary income to do so, they simply jump on the "IT'S JUST AS GOOD!" train. That might sound arrogant, but actually, you see this in pretty much any hobby. Heh, ever seen any of the threads on various gun forums when Hi-Point dudes come in and talk about how people are just mad their bricks are just as good as everyone else's actual quality firearms? Criminy.

Also, people are just bad with money. Speaking of things way beyond me, why would you spend the money on trash when you could simply save up for another few weeks, maybe do without some other luxury, so you could buy the actual quality item, not the garbage item from a worthless scumbag company that's made to look the quality item? I just don't get it.
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What gets me is there are options that aren't all that much higher in price and that you can trust. The byrd line starts around, what, $30USD? No, they don't have flippers in the line, and I'm sure someone will argue the steel difference, but byrd knives are solidly built, reliable, workhorses produced under the strict control of a great cutlery company.

People don't need Ganzo's. They choose them because they want sexy lines or whatever at a bargain basement price and then justify it. Everything is a compromise. You're not going to get a knife that offers all of these neat features for $15 without giving something up. So just save another $15 and get a knife that will perform for years and there's no question about the company's ethical background.

Well, I mean if you're buying a knife to be a knife and not a fidget toy.
 
Ebenvoila said:
I don't know how much it will hurt the sales of the original makers, but we all know that the prices are different, the items are different. So I'm sure someone who is buying a copy, wouldn't buy the original because of the price. And the one who buys the original can do it, and knows why it does. These are 2 different markets for 2 different customers and maybe even 2 different uses.
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There are many problems with this point of view.
Ebenvoila said:
These are 2 different markets for 2 different customers.
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First, there is only one market and one customer. The market is "knives" and the customer is "knife user". The existence of the second market/customer is a fallacy. In the absence of clone and copycat knives, this synthetic market will not exist. It requires the illegal/immoral action of a producer to create this "second" market. In an environment where knife designs, styles and features have NOT been stolen, the knife consumer will make other choices if they are unwilling or unable to obtain their target knife. Perhaps they'll chose a different knife from the same maker. Perhaps they'll choose an alternate original design from a different maker. Any of these actions honor the labor of legit knife designers and manufacturers. There is one certainty; they won't chose a clone knife, to the detriment of the original maker, if they're not available.

Ebenvoila said:
So I'm sure someone who is buying a copy, wouldn't buy the original because of the price.
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Second, how can you be so sure? At this, you can only speak for yourself. There have been many, many threads on this forum of a member asking about a particular knife that they desire. Sometimes they can't get the knife due to price. Sometimes they can't get the knife due to availability. Helpful members will offer the poster suggestions and ideas for an acceptable replacement. Sometimes the poster comes back with news of a replacement purchase. Sometimes they show up with the knife in question after having saved for it. I tend to believe that many of those who purchase a clone knife are unaware the knife is a copy. The cloners rely on ignorance and selfishness to prop up their sales. That's why Blade Forums seems to react like a fire ant nest to the question of clones or copies. Its places like this that can take a stand against the ignorance that abets the sale of clone knives. We usually can't do much about selfishness.

Ebenvoila said:
I don't know how much it will hurt the sales of the original makers
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Third, we DO know. At least from a few specific manufacturers. Sal Glesser at Spyderco has been outspoken concerning the damage that copies of Spyderco designs have done to their business. Spyderco continues to spend significant funds litigating against sellers of clone and copy knives, mostly with fairly mixed success. Such is the nature of litigation. Why don't we hear more about other manufacturers and their fight against clones? Well, I have a theory. Take if for what it's worth. Some have accepted that they will lose a certain amount of revenue each year to clones and copies. They book the loss to their bottom line and consider it an "operating expense". Others may be actively involved in a fight and opt to keep it private, perhaps to not publicize the presence of a clone or to comply with court settlements. Either way, it's unacceptable that clones exist. We may never win the fight to eradicate them, but I'm certain Spyderco and others will continue the fight and I'd love to help them in any way I can.

There's probably much more to say concerning your statement, but I don't want you to feel like you're being picked apart. In general, the entire attitude is wrong. There are moral and logical fails embedded all through it:

I want [X]
The price of [X] is greater than I am willing to pay
A [Copy of X] exists at a price that I like
The [Copy of X] is damaging to [X]
I buy the [Copy of X] because what I want is more important than [X]
[X] is diminished due to my actions

There's much flawed entitlement in this logic path. The bolded words should make it clear without me running on further.

Ebenvoila Ebenvoila , you came here and asked a question about knives. You've gotten a wide range of answers, but even those who say go ahead and buy the Firebird will acknowledge that Ganzo steals designs. Despite the info thrown in your direction, you seem to be seeking rationalization to purchase a Ganzo. I might be wrong, but it feels like you knew what you were going to do before you asked. I'm beginning to question whether you came seeking answers or to stoke a multi-page Ganzo thread that lives on the front page of Blade Forums for a few days. At the end of the day, only you can decide what's right for you. I don't think any of us can say more about this topic at this time. Good luck with your knife purchases.
 
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Hackenslash said:
There are many problems with this point of view.


First, there is only one market and one customer. The market is "knives" and the customer is "knife user". The existence of the second market/customer is a fallacy. In the absence of clone and copycat knives, this synthetic market will not exist. It requires the illegal/immoral action of a producer to create this "second" market. In an environment where knife designs, styles and features have NOT been stolen, the knife consumer will make other choices if they are unwilling or unable to obtain their target knife. Perhaps they'll chose a different knife from the same maker. Perhaps they'll choose an alternate original design from a different maker. Any of these actions honor the labor of legit knife designers and manufacturers. There is one certainty; they won't chose a clone knife, to the detriment of the original maker, if they're not available.



Second, how can you be so sure? At this, you can only speak for yourself. There have been many, many threads on this forum of a member asking about a particular knife that they desire. Sometimes they can't get the knife due to price. Sometimes they can't get the knife due to availability. Helpful members will offer the poster suggestions and ideas for an acceptable replacement. Sometimes the poster comes back with news of a replacement purchase. Sometimes they show up with the knife in question after having saved for it. I tend to believe that many of those who purchase a clone knife are unaware the knife is a copy. The cloners rely on ignorance and selfishness to prop up their sales. That's why Blade Forums seems to react like a fire ant nest to the question of clones or copies. Its places like this that can take a stand against the ignorance that abets the sale of clone knives. We usually can't do much about selfishness.



Third, we DO know. At least from a few specific manufacturers. Sal Glesser at Spyderco has been outspoken concerning the damage that copies of Spyderco designs have done to their business. Spyderco continues to spend significant funds litigating against sellers of clone and copy knives, mostly with fairly mixed success. Such is the nature of litigation. Why don't we hear more about other manufacturers and their fight against clones? Well, I have a theory. Take if for what it's worth. Some have accepted that they will lose a certain amount of revenue each year to clones and copies. They book the loss to their bottom line and consider it an "operating expense". Others may be actively involved in a fight and opt to keep it private, perhaps to not publicize the presence of a clone or to comply with court settlements. Either way, it's unacceptable that clones exist. We may never win the fight to eradicate them, but I'm certain Spyderco and others will continue the fight and I'd love to help them in any way I can.

There's probably much more to say concerning your statement, but I don't want you to feel like you're being picked apart. In general, the entire attitude is wrong. There are moral and logical fails embedded all through it:

I want [X]
The price of [X] is greater than I am willing to pay
A [Copy of X] exists at a price that I like
The [Copy of X] is damaging to [X]
I buy the [Copy of X] because what I want is more important than [X]
[X] is diminished due to my actions

There's much flawed entitlement in this logic path. The bolded words should make it clear without me running on further.

Ebenvoila Ebenvoila , you came here and asked a question about knives. You've gotten a wide range of answers, but even those who say go ahead and buy the Firebird will acknowledge that Ganzo steals designs. Despite the info thrown in your direction, you seem to be seeking rationalization to purchase a Ganzo. I might be wrong, but it feels like you knew what you were going to do before you asked. I'm beginning to question whether you came seeking answers or to stoke a multi-page Ganzo thread that lives on the front page of Blade Forums for a few days. At the end of the day, only you can decide what's right for you. I don't think any of us can say more about this topic at this time. Good luck with your knife purchases.
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Reported for mass murderation. LOL Excellent dissection.
 
Ganzo is trash and if the last 9 pages of discussion weren't enough to change your view, you're actually hopeless.

Literally just scroll through their website. 90% of the knives shown are stolen designs. Have fun supporting that LMAO
 
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