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the most mind boggling question ever
- Thread starter jca21
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Cliff Stamp said:
What cliff said.
Les Stroud is funny to watch, that is about all. from what I understand before any survivorman episode Les goes and trains with a local who has experience with surviving in whatever locale or climate he decides to do a show on. To me that is cheating.
Codger_64
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Training with a knowledgable local and gaining relevant experience is cheating? I don't guess I see it that way. I've never watched Les' shows. Being deaf has it's disadvantages, and one of those is lack of enjoyment of television and movies. I get the impression that he trys to keep his show entertaining rather than strictly instructional. And that is fine, as long as the audience is intellegent enough to realize the difference. Now where did I put my volleyball? WILSON!!!
Codger
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Erasmus said:
Who has the signature line about knowledge coming from bad experience?
Iv'e always been a massive Mears fan but how much of what you see is down to editing?With good editing Les would never make any mistakes but I don't believe that is what he would like.To Les the mistakes are what makes good TV.What I would like to see is the Contravercial Tom Brown Jr in his own show that would be interesting TV.He says in one of his books he can track a mouse over gravel............mmmmmmmmmm!
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my dad being an old military man and my grandpa having fought in the korean war both know a lot about tracking and survival in the wilderness which they've handed that knowledge down to me =). in my experience with tracking i've found it next to impossible to track over gravel, unless its something big like an SUV. lol. tracking a mouse over gravel sounds to me like an almost impossible job to carry out. consider the foot size of the mouse is most of the time smaller then the size of the rocks which make up the gravel. many people can write books on subjects they have no experience with. I'm not very familiar with who tom brown jr. is but I have seen the TOPS tom brown tracker knife which I think is dead sexy. =)
I think that both les and ray edit their videos. the explanation that I have come up with for les editing his videos is simple. if he truly does all his own video work. then we would see him setup the camera. walk away, take the footage, and then come back to collect the camera.
I think I have learned a far greater deal of knowledge from ray then I have from les. although both shows are very entertaining.
who the heck is tom brown anyways?
I think that both les and ray edit their videos. the explanation that I have come up with for les editing his videos is simple. if he truly does all his own video work. then we would see him setup the camera. walk away, take the footage, and then come back to collect the camera.
I think I have learned a far greater deal of knowledge from ray then I have from les. although both shows are very entertaining.
who the heck is tom brown anyways?
Cliff Stamp
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Yes Les edits the footage as otherwise each show would be seven days long. The arguement proposed in the above is that Mears is artifically creating an image of greater competance by editing out all his mistakes. Having watched him handle various tools I would not agree with that statement. It is obvious if you watch both of them work with an axe for example. Mears also doesn't react with an insane sense of wonder every time he achieves a basic goal unlike Stroud.
-Clif
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Codger_64 said:Training with a knowledgable local and gaining relevant experience is cheating? I don't guess I see it that way. I've never watched Les' shows. Being deaf has it's disadvantages, and one of those is lack of enjoyment of television and movies. I get the impression that he trys to keep his show entertaining rather than strictly instructional. And that is fine, as long as the audience is intellegent enough to realize the difference. Now where did I put my volleyball? WILSON!!!
Codger
When the point of the show is to go in unprepared and have to survive with your already learned skills...yes thats cheating. no pre-show training session for you! lol.
Also, I like watching Stroud, he is funny, I just dont think he is by any means a "wonderful" survivalist.
Tom Brown had some tracking show on for a little bit a year or 2 ago, it didnt last long.
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I betcha Alan Halcon could light a friction fire faster than either of'em.
Curious about something...
Why is it that people are so easily critical about Stroud's Survivorman Series? Isn't obvious that his show's basic mandate is to be entertaining? I agree that he sometimes does things that appear to be based on less than stellar decision making, BUT I think that's a key ingredient to the "recipe" of what makes a show entertaining to the "sheeple"....he provides the audience with just enough "adventure" and "simulated real life" to keep their attention directed to his show, instead of CSI.
Perhaps those of us on BF, are simply too biased of an audience? For example, if I was truly lost in the barrrens, I'm not going to waste my energy trying to get myself out by walking - unless of course, no one knows my whereabouts - I feel that I know better. It's grueling to go without real sustenance and still use up valuable calories. However, if Stroud sat in one place for 7 days, the show would not have made it to a second episode.
Regarding Mear's - I've only seen the shows on OLN. I've seen him in Africa, the UK, the US and Canada. Lots of his information is valuable, but he generally has all the tools and ingredients he needs to make whatever he needs. For example, it's great to show people how to make bannock (unleavened bread), but unless you have the flour, salt, lard and baking soda - good luck. So in a way, he easily comes across as competent because of his equipment he has with him - and preparation/editing. I feel that many of his skills he demonstrates almost fall into the category of "how to camp comfortably", rather than "how to stay alive" - but I'm probably biased by only seeing a portion of his documented works.
In my opinion, survival is about "staying alive" - which doesn't necessarily translate into good TV.
In my humble opinion, we cannot truly judge who is the better survivalist based on what we see on TV. It's sort of like trying to pick who will be a better politician based on their campaign speeches....too much entertainment and not enough "real life".
Flame away.
D
Why is it that people are so easily critical about Stroud's Survivorman Series? Isn't obvious that his show's basic mandate is to be entertaining? I agree that he sometimes does things that appear to be based on less than stellar decision making, BUT I think that's a key ingredient to the "recipe" of what makes a show entertaining to the "sheeple"....he provides the audience with just enough "adventure" and "simulated real life" to keep their attention directed to his show, instead of CSI.
Perhaps those of us on BF, are simply too biased of an audience? For example, if I was truly lost in the barrrens, I'm not going to waste my energy trying to get myself out by walking - unless of course, no one knows my whereabouts - I feel that I know better. It's grueling to go without real sustenance and still use up valuable calories. However, if Stroud sat in one place for 7 days, the show would not have made it to a second episode.
Regarding Mear's - I've only seen the shows on OLN. I've seen him in Africa, the UK, the US and Canada. Lots of his information is valuable, but he generally has all the tools and ingredients he needs to make whatever he needs. For example, it's great to show people how to make bannock (unleavened bread), but unless you have the flour, salt, lard and baking soda - good luck. So in a way, he easily comes across as competent because of his equipment he has with him - and preparation/editing. I feel that many of his skills he demonstrates almost fall into the category of "how to camp comfortably", rather than "how to stay alive" - but I'm probably biased by only seeing a portion of his documented works.
In my opinion, survival is about "staying alive" - which doesn't necessarily translate into good TV.
In my humble opinion, we cannot truly judge who is the better survivalist based on what we see on TV. It's sort of like trying to pick who will be a better politician based on their campaign speeches....too much entertainment and not enough "real life".
Flame away.
D
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Stroud dosnt even carry a knife, like I said before its hard to do stuff with out gear. if mears is making bread hes obvously got someone handing him shit.
If your lost you need to get your barings and get yourself back to civilization, everyone claims its on you to make yourself survive not to depend on the kindness of strangers. Besides it might not be a real survival situation untill you are really bad off. Being lost in the woods dosnt meen your going to die the next second.
IMHO your more likely to be attacked by a shark in kansas than be in a "survival" situation in the woods.
If your lost you need to get your barings and get yourself back to civilization, everyone claims its on you to make yourself survive not to depend on the kindness of strangers. Besides it might not be a real survival situation untill you are really bad off. Being lost in the woods dosnt meen your going to die the next second.
IMHO your more likely to be attacked by a shark in kansas than be in a "survival" situation in the woods.
Cliff Stamp
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SubaruSTi said:
He usually carries a multi-tool and has also carried an axe.
Or he had a backpack. Mears does often has a large crew with him, especially when he is acting as a guide. All you actually need to make bread is some plant which can be ground up into flour and a supply of water. I doubt Mears would be unable to find both of those or is ignorant of how to obtain flour from such plants.
Diligence said:
In many of his shows he makes basic tools just using a knife, cordage, fish hooks, bow/arrow, friction fire starting, plus wood working tools like a bark spud. He also shows how to replace equipment by carving a canoe paddle from a log. He is usually really well prepared because that is a part of it, knowing what to take, how to dress, etc. . He discusses essential survival on another series where he takes a well known survival event and basically recreates what happened and then discusses how to improve your chances in such a situation.
The magic baking powder Mears uses is a leavening agent, however you can just make naturally leavened bread by developing the natural yeasts in the air. It takes about a week (depending) to start it the first time. Once you have them developed they last forever properly cared for. There is also no need of course to leaven the blade, flat breads are perfectly edible and very dry crackers last longer.
Mears does demonstrates more bushcraft or wilderness living than survival on most of his tv shows. The basic difference is that as you gain more experience/skill, wilderness survival turns into wilderness living. Any native for example isn't "surviving" when he is in the woods, he is just living his life as normal.
-Cliff
subaru, IMHO, you're whacked, inexperienced and freakin clueless
I have been tracking this thread and your responses are unbelievable.
How can you sit there and spew "crap" like "your more likely to be attacked by sharks in Kansas than be in a survival situation in the woods"? I suppose it means we don't need search and rescue teams then... right?
how about all the news reports of lost hikers... don't know of any? okay here's one for your edification
http://www.pe.com/localnews/hemet/stories/PE_News_Local_B_hiker09.3dfb909.html
still not satisfied? okay then here's another
http://www.gatago.com/alt/true-crime/16359912.html
ohh and by the way in case you didn't understand, they survived by finding another lost hikers pack. A hiker who never made it out because he didn't know how to handle himself in a survival situation.
these are just two stories of thousands.
ohhh! and lets not forget to make note of those in Katrina. seems to me there were thousands of people in a survival situation.
Ohhh! I'm sorry not wilderness enough for you.
well let me say this, if they had any training many of them could have handled the water situation differently as far as procuring, filtering and purifying, using the same techniques you would in a "wilderness" survival situation.
Alan Halcon
I have been tracking this thread and your responses are unbelievable.
How can you sit there and spew "crap" like "your more likely to be attacked by sharks in Kansas than be in a survival situation in the woods"? I suppose it means we don't need search and rescue teams then... right?
how about all the news reports of lost hikers... don't know of any? okay here's one for your edification
http://www.pe.com/localnews/hemet/stories/PE_News_Local_B_hiker09.3dfb909.html
still not satisfied? okay then here's another
http://www.gatago.com/alt/true-crime/16359912.html
ohh and by the way in case you didn't understand, they survived by finding another lost hikers pack. A hiker who never made it out because he didn't know how to handle himself in a survival situation.
these are just two stories of thousands.
ohhh! and lets not forget to make note of those in Katrina. seems to me there were thousands of people in a survival situation.
Ohhh! I'm sorry not wilderness enough for you.
well let me say this, if they had any training many of them could have handled the water situation differently as far as procuring, filtering and purifying, using the same techniques you would in a "wilderness" survival situation.
Alan Halcon
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SubaruSTi said:
Field-expedient/emergency shelters in cold weather seem to mainly fail into two general types:
1) the shelter with a space just large enough for your body - to retain body heat - sorta a tarp and sleeping bag replacement.
2) the shelter built with an open side to receive radient heating from a fire.
Building a fire inside a small brush shelter seems ill-advised. Did Stroud actually do that?
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i believe stroud took the fire into a shelter with him. he had knocked up half an aframe against a hollow beneath a tree. the side of the tree DID catch on fire and he had to put it out quickly.
in ray mears episode ROCKY MOUNTAIN SURVIVAL in his extreme survival series 2, mears states that if your going into the backwoods like he is then you should know how to feed yourself. so he shows how to make a trap where you'd kill a squirril by crushing (pretty neat concept actually).
also, like stated above, in his birch bark canoe journey episode, he makes a replacement paddle, and also says, if you dont know how to make a paddle, you shouldnt be on a canoe journey (well that was his opinion anyways)
surviving IMO revolves around 3 things
1) staying alive
2) keeping comfortable as possible
3) getting rescued
atleast thats how i look at things. i could break these down even further but meh. =)
btw here is a link to the US ARMY SURIVAL MANUAL FM21-76
for those who would like to brushen up on their skills or learn a few new things.
http://www.equipped.com/fm21-76.htm
in ray mears episode ROCKY MOUNTAIN SURVIVAL in his extreme survival series 2, mears states that if your going into the backwoods like he is then you should know how to feed yourself. so he shows how to make a trap where you'd kill a squirril by crushing (pretty neat concept actually).
also, like stated above, in his birch bark canoe journey episode, he makes a replacement paddle, and also says, if you dont know how to make a paddle, you shouldnt be on a canoe journey (well that was his opinion anyways)
surviving IMO revolves around 3 things
1) staying alive
2) keeping comfortable as possible
3) getting rescued
atleast thats how i look at things. i could break these down even further but meh. =)
btw here is a link to the US ARMY SURIVAL MANUAL FM21-76
for those who would like to brushen up on their skills or learn a few new things.
http://www.equipped.com/fm21-76.htm