The plague of S30V and S35VN

[Pilsner]

I wonder if the crooked river will translate well into a smaller size. i cant imagind the blade having the same beauty. But hopefully it would. I think i would buy one.

I’m liking it in full size!

 

[Sonnydaze]

Well, you're right. Those steels are everywhere. The S35VN seems to be a good improvement over S30V and I've owned plenty of knives with one or the other. I do prefer other steels, however, as I'm one of those steel-snobs you hear about.
I don't need super-steels, but I enjoy having them.

 

[Pilsner]

[...] I do prefer other steels, however, as I'm one of those steel-snobs you hear about.
I don't need super-steels, but I enjoy having them.

Anyone wishing to argue with that is probably in the wrong place. It’s a perfectly valid reason.

 

[anthony cheeseboro]

Within reason, I don't worry about steel. I care more about design and hot spots or practicality as long as the steel is at least 154CM or CMP154.
If you are tired S30V or S35VN, collect autos. For some reason, those steels are much less common among autos.

 

[chiral.grolim]

I have to admit that I never really looked at it that closely. Over the years of having my woodworking company I have acquired 3 different stationary sanders, one being a 1" Delta many years ago. When the HF didn't work out right away, I dismissed it as "it is the wife's, not mine" and "that's how HF is, hit or miss". Never gave it a second look or second thought. But thinking about what you with it, I will probably take it out (still in the original box!) and try it out with your modifications.

If you already have something better, it may indeed seem like so much junk, and I have read before that HF can be hit and miss. Mine doesn't track all that well, but I tighten it to where I need to push the belt to get it running and then the belt seems to stay in place. *shrug*

...The little machine worked great for them with the stock belt. Turned out to be a passing fancy, making me thankful I didn't spend a lot on a sander that I would by for the wood shop.

LOL!!! So that's what I have been doing wrong all these years! I was holding the knife between my toes!

Seriously, I have been sharpening on my Delta 1x30 for about 20+ years. I always hand finish. And for me, I never use it on my knives...

...May give the old HF another look. If I take enough pieces off and lay it over like you are describing it might turn out to be a good tool for me. I'll keep your tip in mind and make sure I am wearing my shoes (so I remember to use my hands!) when sharpening/grinding.

LOL My apologies for the absurdity. I was confused by your statement that it had no "good place to put the knife to sharpen or reprofile". I am sure that your delta is going to work much better than the HF at everything. I am not asserting that the HF is all that good, just that I can certainly get it to do what I want it to do most of the time (as a hobbyist). If you decide to try using it for sharpening knives too, I think you will find it easier to use flipped on its back (assuming you can rest it appropriately, I only have the HF so cannot speak to the Delta). I was used to benchstones, so a horizontal sharpening plane was more natural for me.

Best of luck to you!

 

[Brock O Lee]

Every production knife manufacturer needs a middle-of-the-road steel to standardise on for the bulk of their offering to cater for the average-Joe out there. It should do many things well: balance between ease of sharpening, corrision resistance, ease of manufacturing, edge holding, toughness, cost. I can see why Spyderco chose VG10/S30V. Mid-techs and customs are another story.

Most forumites are afi’s, and I believe we represent just a tiny fraction of the market.

 

[Pilsner]

Every production knife manufacturer needs a middle-of-the-road steel to standardise on for the bulk of their offering to cater for the average-Joe out there. It should do many things well: balance between ease of sharpening, corrision resistance, ease of manufacturing, edge holding, toughness, cost. I can see why Spyderco chose VG10/S30V. Mid-techs and customs are another story.

Most forumites are afi’s, and I believe we represent just a tiny fraction of the market.

May I ask whether you are using the lesser steels and finding your work impeded due to their inferiority, or whether you prefer steels that require less maintenance, which would still be minimal in the case of the steels under discussion?

 

[Revolverrodger]

You need to turn on the belt sander for it to work...

I've used and sharpened S30V pretty extensively (actually more than even M390 which I am far more fond of), and it does seem to be a very difficult to work steel, granted not like S110V which basically laughed at my DMT XC stone. A reprofile on M390 or Elmax will take me like 2 hours if it is very extreme, but I've had S30V take nearly 2 hours with a belt sander (of course dipping the blade and taking quick breaks to ensure no steel overheating). Taking an S30V blade down about 8° per side took me 6 hours one day because I had to work with with my DMT XC stone. Even taking Elmax back 10°+ didn't take nearly as long (one of those ZT factory edges...). S35VN isn't nearly as bad as S30V, though.

 

[dkb45]

I know you seem to believe that you weren’t overheating it, but I assure you that NO amount of time and patience will prevent you from overheating a knife on that little belt sander with a dull belt. According to Harbor Freight’s website, that machine’s rate of speed is 3,260 sanding feet per minute, or about the same top speed as what many grinders that knifemakers use.

As I can’t seem to convince you otherwise, this will be my last post in this thread regarding this topic, but even the tiniest amount of research should allow you to reach the same conclusion. If you’re thinking that you’ll feel the heat with your hands, it’s far too late for that. You’re talking about the tiniest area at the edge - if you managed to heat up into the primary bevel, you’ve more than roached the edge...

I had kind of heard that in passing and wasn't sure what the full details on it were. Even with light pressure, dipping, and frequent breaks I'm still likely overheating the Apex? I know the steel didn't discolor, which is what I thought was the sign of a burnt HT. I'm honestly not sure.

 

[Planterz]

Every production knife manufacturer needs a middle-of-the-road steel to standardise on for the bulk of their offering to cater for the average-Joe out there. It should do many things well: balance between ease of sharpening, corrision resistance, ease of manufacturing, edge holding, toughness, cost. I can see why Spyderco chose VG10/S30V. Mid-techs and customs are another story.

Most forumites are afi’s, and I believe we represent just a tiny fraction of the market.

It wasn't all that long ago that S30V was a (or rather, the) "super steel", makers and manufacturers were complaining that it was overly difficult to work with, and 154CM/ATS-34 was the "compromise" premium steel for a knife at a reasonable price that wasn't 440C.

 

[ScooterG]

 

[Planterz]

And for Loveless' sake, quit referring to the "apex" of the edge. The edge is the goddamned edge. You can't have an apex of an edge any more than you can have the acme of a peak, the vertex of the apogee, or the bottom of the nadir.

 

[trevitrace]

 

[Gaston444]

You have no knowledge about anything.
You continue to prove this post after post.
You are becoming a tiresome blight on the knife world.

CPM 154 after 5-10 chops, 18-20 dps:

CPM 3V after 10-15 chops, factory 20 dps edge:

Then 10-15 chops in another separate spot:

S30V after less than 10 chops at 20 dps:

5160 at 15 dps with a 20 dps micro bevel (about the minimum acceptable steel in performance), 35 chops:

All CPM steels behaved the exact same way for me.

And please, if you think the whitish line/spots is made of actual visible curled metal, don't entertain us with your knowledge...

Gaston

 

[Dave from State Farm]

^ give it up Gaston....

 

[353]

CPM 154 after 5-10 chops, 18-20 dps:

CPM 3V after 10-15 chops, factory 20 dps edge:

Then 10-15 chops in another separate spot:

S30V after less than 10 chops at 20 dps:

5160 at 15 dps with a 20 dps micro bevel (about the minimum acceptable steel in performance), 35 chops:

All CPM steels behaved the exact same way for me.

And please, if you think the whitish line/spots is made of actual visible curled metal, don't entertain us with your knowledge...

Gaston

Again, just for you...

 

[dkb45]

Gaston that is a wire edge. It was not properly removed, so the edge will look like it sustained a lot of rolling, but in reality it is just that part on the very edge that needs removed properly and the steels will perform just fine.

Notice how the "rolling" is along the entire length of the edge? That's not from the chopping, that's from sharpening.

 

[bhyde]

CPM 154 after 5-10 chops, 18-20 dps:

CPM 3V after 10-15 chops, factory 20 dps edge:

Then 10-15 chops in another separate spot:

S30V after less than 10 chops at 20 dps:

5160 at 15 dps with a 20 dps micro bevel (about the minimum acceptable steel in performance), 35 chops:

All CPM steels behaved the exact same way for me.

And please, if you think the whitish line/spots is made of actual visible curled metal, don't entertain us with your knowledge...

Gaston

Gaston-

You don't even follow any kind of protocol for methodology of your tests. Posting pics of different angles of god knows what, why and where in poor lighting conditions. Any post chopping treatment of knife in the description..like you tried to wipe away the dust with a microfiber cloth. Nothing..just pictures with a description of how many swings you applied to the edge and a material. Was the same force applied to all or did you let your hatred for anything CPM get in the way of your not so scientific test?
How is anyone ABLE, regardless of want, to take you seriously with this?
Be glad this isn't a dissertation of theory for a college class because you would likely receive less than an "F" for this.
Poorly thought out, constructed test documented with crappy pictures and of course, in the same thread there was an assignment for citations but none were given for this "proof" that CPM is less than usable steel.

 

[Gaston444]

Gaston that is a wire edge. It was not properly removed, so the edge will look like it sustained a lot of rolling, but in reality it is just that part on the very edge that needs removed properly and the steels will perform just fine.

Notice how the "rolling" is along the entire length of the edge? That's not from the chopping, that's from sharpening.

Yeah, it's a "wire edge" that happens when the S30V steel (on a $1700 custom) meets any kind of wood, and is so ridiculously sub-par that the entire thing rolls from a handful of hit at 20 dps... It never rolled further though, so it did remain quite useable, just to point out that I am not completely overstating things...

Note how the intensity of the grabbing varies all across the affected area (and the gap between two affected area, which I deliberately left clear of hits as a reference): A wire edge from sharpening would not have these variations within the affected area. And what a coincidence that the apex micro-rolled where I chose to hit wood with it, but nowhere else, right?

Feel free to think sharpening caused this, having not worked on this $1700 knife for twenty months, over hundreds of tests, to try to STOP it from doing this. Just looking at one picture makes you know better?

Try to think about this logically: Do you think you know better than me how this knife behaved, when I tried for 20 months to have this $1700 investment stop failing? This crud is still my favourite knife design of all times: It took something truly abysmal for me to actually sell it, compared to so many others inferior designs that succeeded (as long as they weren't in any kind of CPM steel)...

Even 5160 Carbon steel did much better, as long as it was painted. Unless you always stay home when it rains of course...

Gaston

 

[The Aflac Duck]

Even 5160 Carbon steel did much better, as long as it was painted. Unless you always stay home when it rains of course...

Gasbag

Painted???