The plague of S30V and S35VN

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gadgetgeek said:
That's not a problem, Get yourself a Spyderco Native 5LW, 85$ new, and if you keep looking in the exchange, you should eventually find one. Great mid-size folder, really good value for what you pay.
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Check UK Prices.

Damn Expensive.
 
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PoorUserName said:
Wish i could afford S30V or S35VN, 100$+ knives are beyond me, Ordered my first 440C for $14, Most of my knives are Mora max price $35 for my Mora Force.
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Kizer has some knives with s35vn for 70$ and lower if you're fron the US, or 130$ and below if you're EU.

I got the bambu for 66$ off ebay (110$ shipped and taxed to EU) and the Aileon for a similar price which i think is still for sale.
 
basmca said:
Kizer has some knives with s35vn for 70$ and lower if you're fron the US, or 130$ and below if you're EU.

I got the bambu for 66$ off ebay (110$ shipped and taxed to EU) and the Aileon for a similar price which i think is still for sale.
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Only, Kitchen knives can be bought on eBay UK, all others are banned(don`t even show up in search results), I tried buying from eBay US, eBay would not let me.
 
gadgetgeek said:
I know the feeling P PoorUserName , I'm in Australia. It does make it challenging to build a collection. You might want to nuke that link though, rules and such.
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It`s even worse for you Australia`s you step outdoors and some wildlife is going to try and kill and eat you and you cannot even defend yourself, At least in the UK, the wildlife is 99% safe.
 
I grew up with Canadian wildlife, bears and cougars and such. You get used to the fact that most of the lethal wildlife here isn't out to eat you, just kill you because it can. I kinda prefer the way it is back home. As far as buying knives, don't bother with ebay, its not worth the hastle, and the only guys selling are likely running a scam. There are forums more local to you that should be able to help out.
 
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Sage advice. But I still feel like rewarding myself for the work I do by buying a nice knife from time to time.

midnight flyer said:
This is a terrible thing to say, and I hope you won't think poorly of me. Before I was enlightened by this site by all the things wrong with the knives I bought, the steels they were made of, and the style of knives themselves, I lived in a happy ignorance using 440C and its relatives. Back 40 years ago I remember that I thought I had climbed the top of the mountain with my large Browning folder made from 440C. It worked all day long on a construction site, went on picnics, barbecues, and hunting/fishing trips as the only large folder I owned.

I learned how to hand sharpen correctly as a kid by looking at the instructions that came in my buddy's Buck knife. Every edge was a convex edge. You couldn't watch a movie in the mirror edge (because it wasn't there!) nor were there all the fancy contraptions sold now to make sure you put the same edge on your knife that the group tells you to use.

I have all manner of popular steels, super steels, etc. I find I pay less attention to the actual steel (unimpressed with the S110V on my Kershaw Shallot) and look at the function of the knife for the practical use I will put it to. And since most of the people I know are afraid to use their super high end knives (really...? Send them in for a "spa treatment"?) for much more than man jewelry I don't listen to any BS about the steels in my knives. At this point in my life I can buy and carry what I want.

So... what would be on deck for Fall? I have an old CASE that is in 1095 that I bought sometime around 1976 that I love. The shield is worn mostly smooth, two of the rivet heads have fallen off, and the scales that were a lovely ruby red when I purchased it are now dirty leather brown. The steel is so soft (55 Rockwell!) I used to touch it up on the job site with worn out 600gr wet and dry sand paper. Love that knife, it is an old trooper. We have quite a history. Yet even then, there were better steels on the market, but that was the best I could afford.

Buy a knife you like, a knife you will use, a knife of some quality. You will find that you prize that knife much more than a knife bought simply for the bragging rights you might have from some "upper end" steel.

Robert
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Well I used the heck out of my S35VN Ferrum Forge Falcon today, and have a newfound respect for the properties of the steel, but I also figured out how to put into words why I'm not a big fan of S30V and S35VN. Neither of those steels stay bragging rights sharp after almost any level of use, while so many other steels dull on a more linear scale, so the edge doesn't cut as long overall, but the shaving edge stays significantly longer.

I don't use my knives very much at all. If I decided to carry a different knife every day and only sharpen them when dull it could be a few years until I have to sit down and spend some time sharpening. I know my specific needs for a steel are pretty uncommon, it just disappoints me to see so little variety in new knives. Looking at base models for this year, across numerous manufacturers (in the $100-200 bracket) nearly half have one of two steels. That's kinda boring considering that there are so many steels out there, and every knife has a different design.
 
James Y said:
Both S30V and S35VN were specifically formulated for knives. You would know that if you knew what you were talking about.

Jim
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I never said they were not. I said the CPM process was not developed for knives. Formulas within that process that are meant for knives doesn't change the fact that the whole process was not.

You would know that if you could read my post correctly.

Gaston
 
Gaston444 said:
I never said they were not. I said the CPM process was not developed for knives. Formulas within that process that are meant for knives doesn't change the fact that the whole process was not.

You would know that if you could read my post correctly.

Gaston
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It's pretty obvious that the particle metallurgy process was not made specifically for knives. Nobody said it was, and if anybody has they would be clearly insane. S30V and S35VN, however, were designed specially as a cutlery steel. Gaston, please just... just stop. You have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Years ago:

"VG10 is amazing! More knives need to be in VG10!"

A little Later:

VG10 is everywhere... "S30V is amazing! More knives should be in S30V!"

A little later:

S30V is everywhere... "S35VN is amazing! More knives should be in S35VN!"

Now:

S35VN is everywhere..."M390 is amazing! blahblahblah repeat repeat.

To me they are all still great.
 
miso2 said:
G Gaston444
S30V and S35VN tend to develop lingering burrs in my experience. Your description indicates that you have a wire edge or foil burr, rather than clean apex.
Once they are removed, I think the edge would be more stable even at 15 DPS.
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In your dreams that any of this CPM stuff will not grab your nail on one side if you breathe on it at 20 DPS. I have dozens of pictures of various knives, some customs into the 1.5 K range, where you can see the nail material grabbed in different edge areas from individual hits on Maple...

I never saw a CPM steel micro-folded edge completely roll over 180 degrees (as I did with really bad 440: Most other poor 440 just chipped long before getting to that point).

CPMs just seemed to grab more and more nail material, as if the rolled portion became taller and taller, working its way up the edge, but the apex itself would not bend beyond a certain point: The rolled apex seemed strong enough to not bend further, instead "taking with it" thicker and thicker steel below itself: This, however, does mean the apex sideway misalignment was still getting worse, but doing so in a way that made apex chipping less likely.

It is quite possible the apex on CPM steels remains sharper (and more chip resistant) than on other steels, even when rolled, and that despite the rolling it still resists chipping by "spreading" the micro-bending up the edge (until it is definitely not "micro")...

I don't find this acceptable because of the height loss issue: To restore the edge you will have to remove more height than on a steel that stayed "straight": This eats faster into the "reserve" of the main edge bevel, in turn forcing a more frequent re-profile, this eating faster into the "reserve" of the overall geometry.

There is also the issue of the blade "skipping" when chopping into wood, because on at least one side of the "V" cut your edge will be rolled "away" from the angled wood, making it bounce sideway dangerously. I did notice this, and this is quite unacceptable for a big "Survival Knife".

That being said, for lighter tasks, it could be that the micro-rolling is largely an academic issue, especially on folders, and that these edges keep on slicing forever in their micro-rolled condition... The dividing factor is perhaps the use of chopping motions: I find small chopping impacts useful even on very small tasks (contrary to what is usually said about this, this means occasionally big knives do small tasks better), and that would tend to spread the rolling upwards on the edge compared to slicing.

Gaston
 
I have several S30V and S35VN knives, and they don't grab nail after cutting cardboard (I don't know about maple thing), unless I fail to remove the wire edge or foil burr. Actually, if I feel a rolled edge after cutting into cardboard or wood only once, that is how I know I have a wire edge.

But I have a feeling that the factory edge is somewhat weak and that some metal has to be removed to have a stable edge. You may have that issue as well.
 
I've never had any issues with s30v or s35vn. I have it in my CRKs, Spydercos, Benchmades and various other blades. As long as you don't contact anything hard with your edge, both of these steels will make great cutters for most peoples' needs.
 
PoorUserName said:
Wish i could afford S30V or S35VN, 100$+ knives are beyond me, Ordered my first 440C for $14, Most of my knives are Mora max price $35 for my Mora Force.
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If you really want to try out S30v, Buck vantage pro's go for around $50ish bucks, I've seen plenty of used ones go for around $30.
 
dkb45 said:
It's pretty obvious that the particle metallurgy process was not made specifically for knives. Nobody said it was, and if anybody has they would be clearly insane. S30V and S35VN, however, were designed specially as a cutlery steel. Gaston, please just... just stop. You have no idea what you are talking about.
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Try to think about this logically...

I attack all the CPM steels, that I know of first hand, as not good for knife use: These four that I know of extended my skepticism to the entire process... Is that hard to understand?

I noticed all four, that I know of, bend their apex with the same astonishing ease while chopping, even at thick angles, in a way that is immediate and typical, and unlike all other steels I ever tried (cheaper steels do this at thinner angles, but not at angles as high as the 20 dps CPMs will do: This makes CPMs indeed the bottom of the barrel as far as micro-folding goes). What difference does it make if some CPMs were formulated for knife use?

Saying some CPMs were "formulated" for knife use amounts to a weird, completely non-pertinent authority argument...

Ok, maybe it means that, among the morass that are CPM steels for knives, those "formulated for knives" are a little more knife-like in performance... That way you can say "the experts" did do their job. But it has nothing to do with what I say, or the underlying apex stability problem, which is blindingly obvious if you do ten chops at 20 dps into any kind of dead wood, even if just as a micro-bevel. All you have to do is stop slicing paper to test your edge, and instead rub your nail on the apex, away from the cutting edge. It will instantly jump out at you: Not complicated, and I even learned the nail trick on Bladesforums...

Gaston
 
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