The Problem with Buck Liner Locks

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sassafrassdogs3 said:
He likes to do unnatural things with them and when they fail, he complains... :confused::confused:o_O
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I think you should list for us all the accepted "natural" uses for a Buck knife with a liner lock so a Buck knife owner will know what he or she can safely do with that knife and not have that Buck knife fail.
 
Stephen, What gives. Your post goes one direction then when people explain or tease a little you call us Buck Defenders. I think its more of a lesson on liner locks. It could be any brand of knife in any forum. Liner locks have no standard of where they lock up. i guarantee it changes over use. Which means the lock bar will creep over.
 
Stephen W Huyssoon said:
I think you should list for us all the accepted "natural" uses for a Buck knife with a liner lock so a Buck knife owner will know what he or she can safely do with that knife and not have that Buck knife fail.
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If you dont trust Buck knives, dont buy them. They dont call me 3 fingered jack for nothing.
 
Six Tests to Check a Liner Lock Knife

How do you know that your liner lock knife is going to withstand the pressure? A solid liner lock is fantastic. But if your liner lock fails, it is possible to suffer some serious damage to your fingers and or hand. Before you get too cozy with your new liner lock knife, it is a good idea to test it so you know it will stand up to the situations your knife will face. And remember, just because you paid a bunch for your knife doesn’t mean it has a great liner lock. Some of the least expensive knives I have come across have well-built liner locks. I conducted all of these tests on the Spyderco Military knife and was impressed. It passed with flying colors.


Spyderco Military Liner Lock Knife
Here are six basic tests you can conduct on your liner lock to verify if it is well made and durable. These tests will work for manual folder liner lock knives. Some of the tests will not work on a spring assisted liner lock knife. These six tests should be fine to conduct on any manual folder liner lock knife. If the knife fails any of these tests, you shouldn’t have broken anything and you should be able to return the knife with no issues.

First, when the blade is open, try to wiggle it back and forth. Here you are checking for blade movement. If there is play in the blade it means the pivot screw isn’t tight enough. Tighten the pivot screw until all the movement is gone when you conduct this test. If the pivot screw is loose, it may be that it just came loose, or it could be the sign of a dirty trick. Some knifemakers will loosen the pivot screw enough that the liner lock operates smooth even though the blade isn’t tight. By tightening the pivot screw to the proper tension, you can then test the liner lock under the proper conditions. Now, conduct the rest of the tests to see if you have a great liner lock knife.

Second, test the action. A well-built liner lock will open smooth and lock up very strong. You should be able to open and close it with just one hand–closing is a bit more tricky but after a few tries you should be able to get the job done.

Third, open your blade. Then close it slowly. As you close the knife, just before the blade is all the way back into the knife the blade should close all by itself. To really test this, you have to close the blade very slowly. What happens is the detent, if it is constructed properly, “grabs” the blade and seats it into the closed position.

Fourth, open your blade very slowly. Get it all the way open with the least amount of effort you can put into it. DO THIS NEXT STEP CAREFULLY! Now that the liner lock has the blade in the locked open position, press on the back of the spine with moderate pressure. You are testing the liner lock to see if it seats into the locked position properly when the blade is opened very slowly. A poorly built liner lock will give or fail with this pressure. A well-built liner lock will seat properly when the blade is opened lightly.

Fifth, open the blade with as much snap as you can. Now that the blade is locked open, try to close the blade (release the liner lock) with one hand. If you can, it is a well-built liner lock. Here you are testing to see if the liner lock face and the blade lock face seat the same whether you open the knife hard or soft. If you can’t open it with one hand after opening the blade fast and hard, the two faces are seating deeper than they normally do and this is a good indication that the mechanism is not built properly.

Sixth, grab your knife in a gorilla grip. This is where you have the blade open and you fist the whole handle like you are under serious duress. ONCE AGAIN, BE VERY CAREFUL with this test. Now that you have the handle in a full hand grip, put some pressure on the blade. Put some up and down pressure as well as some side to side pressure. Here you are testing whether a full hand grip mixed with pressure on the blade will allow your hand to “accidentally” release the liner lock, the results of which would be very painful to the back of your fingers.

Check your knife before it matters. That way, you know that you have a well-built liner lock knife that is not going to fail at the first sign of trouble.
 
The New Knife Checklist: 6 Things You Should Do
August 28, 2016
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Getting a new blade never gets old. Whether you’ve just obtained your first knife, or you’re adding no. 100 to your collection, here are six to-dos to make the most out of your next New Knife Day.

Inspect it
Give your new knife a good, thorough once-over. Even the best manufacturers put out a few lemons, and if you’re getting the knife secondhand you may spot issues you weren’t told about or didn’t notice in the pics. A little lock stick or blade play are often manageable (see below), but make sure there are no fatal flaws: a chipped edge, a blade so off-center it’s touching the scales, loose or stripped hardware. If major issues are present, it’s best to put the knife aside and get in touch with the seller right away.

Catch & Release? Make the Decision
Is the knife what you expected? Is this a knife you’re really going to carry and use? Is it too big, small, wide, or heavy? Does it feel right in your hand? Are you experiencing any post-purchase regret? Knife forums and social media make it fast and easy to resell the knife, but to maximize the value you should decide if you really want to keep it before starting to break it in.

Break it in
Stiffness and stickiness are normal for a brand new knife. Like a baseball glove, it’s going to take some working in. Open and close your new blade over and over again to let all the mechanical parts start to operate together. You should notice improvement in the action within a day or two and after about a week the knife should work as it was designed to.

Go Easy on the Oil
We’ve all been told that lubrication will make a knife work better, but oiling a new knife can be detrimental. Most knives come pre-lubricated and too much oil can actually impede the break-in process. So do your pivot a favor and resist the temptation to get out the Nano Oil on day one.

Tweak It
Two areas to pay special attention to, especially after initial break-in, are the pivot and the lock. An off-center blade or a little blade play indicate a pivot that needs tuning. Adjust the pivot to a point where you are happy with the action and there is still no blade play. As for lock stick, the simple ‘pencil trick’ should suffice: just take a pencil and scribble on the lock interface of the tang. Graphite is a mild lubricant, and it will help the lock operate more smoothly. Reapply as necessary until it’s no longer an issue.
 
Makael said:
Stephen, What gives. Your post goes one direction then when people explain or tease a little you call us Buck Defenders. I think its more of a lesson on liner locks. It could be any brand of knife in any forum. Liner locks have no standard of where they lock up. i guarantee it changes over use. Which means the lock bar will creep over.
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The two knives I have shown are Buck knives. This thread was intended to be about the issues exhibited. Intelligent conversation was desired but not necessarily expected. But I do appreciate your sincerity and genuine love of Buck knives.

It is what it is. You people who ridicule... you aren't doing youselves any favors and neither are you doing any favors for Buck Knives.

Liner locks will adjust with wear, this is good as long as it properly engages. A liner lock that does not engage indicates a lack of precision in manufacturing.
 
Did you do any of the suggested things listed above? A loose pivot?
 
A liner lock that engages slightly less the perfect will take a seat, both lock and blade will seat in place. Together as one, till death
 
I'm not a fan of liner locks regardless of manufacturer. I have had them fail on me more than once, the reason for Band-Aids, I must say the ones that did fail weren't Bucks. I do own a couple of different model of Buck liner locks and have yet to have one fail, but I'm not trying to make them fail either.

For a fair comparison, you should get a couple of other large manufacturer's liner locks and do the same test and comment on them alongside the Buck's. I think that would be a good test of liner locks.
 
I watched this a few times...it looks like the lock is fine, but when you put pressure on the blade and scales it slides over. I’m not sure if that’s an issue since the lock is still engaged.


Also watched the second video a few times and note than many of my liner locks are located in that position. It will improve over time. Does it fail when pushing on the back of the blade?
 
Badhammer said:
We appear to get these type of members and their posts from time to time. Not sure if they might not be the same person using a new account? Just off the wall stuff.
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Are you apoligizing to forum members because of my posts? Because Badhammer, son, you are going to have lots more apologizing to be doing.
 
MolokaiRider said:
I watched this a few times...it looks like the lock is fine, but when you put pressure on the blade and scales it slides over. I’m not sure if that’s an issue since the lock is still engaged.

Also watched the second video a few times and note than many of my liner locks are located in that position. It will improve over time. Does it fail when pushing on the back of the blade?
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If I make a video of the lock disengaging under sideways pressure from using the knife, will you then admit there is an issue with the Buck liner lock?

The knife in the second video has closed under pressure but has worn in slightly over use and would only do that now, I think, if it were opened slowly. But I'm not sure. But I am sure that it's liner lock does not fully engage when opened normally. I had thought the video would put that issue to rest.
 
sassafrassdogs3 said:
I'm not a fan of liner locks regardless of manufacturer. I have had them fail on me more than once, the reason for Band-Aids, I must say the ones that did fail weren't Bucks. I do own a couple of different model of Buck liner locks and have yet to have one fail, but I'm not trying to make them fail either.

For a fair comparison, you should get a couple of other large manufacturer's liner locks and do the same test and comment on them alongside the Buck's. I think that would be a good test of liner locks.
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I do appreciate a genuine response on topic. I am not doing a comparison of all liner locks, just showing two issues on two of my Buck knives hoping for a resolution to what I believe to be a design shortcoming. I am certain there is a design fix and why should not Buck knives be the leader in this fix.
 
Stephen W Huyssoon said:
If I make a video of the lock disengaging under sideways pressure from using the knife, will you then admit there is an issue with the Buck liner lock?

The knife in the second video has closed under pressure but has worn in slightly over use and would only do that now, I think, if it were opened slowly. But I'm not sure. But I am sure that it's liner lock does not fully engage when opened normally. I had thought the video would put that issue to rest.
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I’m not sure. I tested a bunch of my liner locks from different manufacturers using your same method and several of them did the same thing. In my opinion this is not really an issue for a folding knife, but that’s just my opinion which doesn’t account for much.

I guess I’m just not seeing the issue(s) being significant enough to call this a problem. But again...this is merely my opinion.
 
I know there are fans of liner locks and there are people that think Buck can do no wrong. Any knife company can have designs that need tweaking.

I will state from the start that I am not a fan of liner locks, in general. Liner locks and frame locks are the weakest possible locks and they will fail under hard use. On our small ranch we had seen many failures and I have seen injuries because of this. Sure, any lock can fail, but liner locks and frame locks are more prone to it under duress. We got to where we would not allow anyone to use a liner lock on the farm. Not only that, but they tend to come open in the pocket when doing anything physical, like wrestling a stuck cow critter out of the mire, or sliding down a steep hillside into a gorge. My wife will no longer have one because she had a name brand liner lock come open in her purse and almost cut her. I have had them come open in my pocket while out walking.

I prefer back locks, CBBL, and axis locks, in that order. The first two have a strong bias to close. The back lock is immensely strong and the CBBL is a good second, it seems. Though I have seen back locks fail (any lock type can fail), it is unusual, and usually due to crud between the lock bar and the blade tang. Generally, the blade will break before the lock fails.

So, when discounting the OP, I think we are not taking seriously real world experience with knives like these. I did not take it that he was putting Buck down, but rather calling attention to a common issue. Buck makes liner locks because people demand them, not because they are the best locks. This is not at all to say that Buck is a bad company. It is just the nature of the beast.

There are advantages to the liner lock in that it can easily be made with flow through construction so it can be cleaned. Back locks are slightly more problematic in that regard, but not enough to warrant not using this lock. A lot of people think back locks are old fashioned and liner locks are newer and so cool and cutting edge. This is not true. Liner locks pre-date back locks and are old tech (if I remember correctly).
 
I don't really like liner locks either. Not just Buck, but liner locks in general. Closing the knife requires to you put a finger across the well where the blade rests. A knife with decent walk and talk can snap a blade across a finger very easily. Just doesn't make sense.
 
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MolokaiRider said:
I’m not sure. I tested a bunch of my liner locks from different manufacturers using your same method and several of them did the same thing. In my opinion this is not really an issue for a folding knife, but that’s just my opinion which doesn’t account for much.

I guess I’m just not seeing the issue(s) being significant enough to call this a problem. But again...this is merely my opinion.
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All I need to do, then, is push down on a cutting board and push the handle to the left and make a video of that and perhaps some (more) of the readers of this post might see this issue as a real issue.

People do cut meats and watermelons and stuff using cutting boards, do they not? People don't always push straight down, do they? Would that be unnatural? To cut into a pumpkin, the pumpkin slides to the right, pressure is applied to the left and forward, and what was condidered an "unnatural act" with a knife becomes a sliced finger because the unsuspecting user of a Buck knife was not wearing cut proof gloves to carve a Halloween pumpkin.
 
I don't own a Buck 293 Inertia. But what I see in the video should be looked at closely by Buck. We have to assume someone will apply pressure on the knife in that way in real life and it will close on them.

I do own the Buck 290 Rush, three of them. The one I have for myself locks up perfect. But I just checked the other two I planned to give as gifts. They lock up but just barely. I will have to work with them and hope they settle in. But I should not have to. I would not have checked this and I would have given them to people who don't know to look, which I believe is the point of this thread.

I like liner locks. I have never had a Buck liner lock fail on me. I have had other brands fail due to not being fully engaged. As long as they engage fully, I feel they are very safe.
 
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