The Refugees

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I am sorry my opionion is not that of yours or your countrymen in Canada that are willing to take 25,000 refugees. Like I said we have internal problems in the USA that are effecting citizens of our country. Fixing those problem on home soil to me is more important than importing people into the USA that will only add a bigger burden on US tax payers. JMHO.

Talk about social problem that needs fixing on US soil how about this little news story linked below. A sign everything is not OK in the USA.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...use-clean-bathrooms-butt-naked-squatters.html
Ohhh buttnaked squatters in an airport, stop the presses, let's ignore everything until this national calamity is addressed!

Not another word on international issues until every last butt-naked squatter has a clothed butt and a mat at a shelter, or better yet, a jail plantation!

Seriously though, that's a fluff piece to titillate and outrage readers, in the UK version of the National Enquirer.

Some states have been draining young people for years and could really use an influx of working age families, so this isn't simply a matter of taking refugees at great cost to our nation with no benefit to us as a nation.

Syria was solidly middle income before their (US-fueled) civil war, and they were a US ally to boot.

There's no reason to assume refugee families would be anything but a credit to their communities.
 
What would have happened if the American Japanese and Germans would not have been put into camps?
There was even an American Nazi party and American Führer.
Some American Germans became Nazi agents and where just barely prevented from blowing stuff up.
Japanese were thought to spy.
Not all American Germans and Japanese of course were part of this but how would you distinguish?
Camps arent all good of course. Some Germans and probably Japanese too only became radicalized in these camps which isn't good for the country and then there is the hardship for the interned families as well, who actually were Americans, but just had roots in the wrong Country.
Still I never heard anything bitter from people who were hold in these American camps for Citizens with German and Japanese background. I don't think they were just too afraid to hit back once released. I think they realised the necessity.

Where there ever any Italian camps in America before Italy switched sides in the war?
The internment camps are actually not a success story, they were a national disgrace.

George Takei is one prominent surviving camp resident who has written publicly about the experience, he doesn't share your view of the camps as a necessity of the war at all.
 
I wonder how many Americans type anti-refugee posts using their Apple devices designed by Steve Jobs, the son of a Syrian refugee? :rolleyes:

Oh, that argument :rolleyes:

Those were different times when Steve Job's family entered the country. Very different circumstances with the rise of Al Qaeda, ISIS, and domestic terrorism. We were also in far better shape as a nation then. How about the Tsarnaev brothers? Your guilt trip holds little weight when there are other peoples around the world who are also suffering that WANT to live our way of life. Asians, South Americans, you see them bombing marathons? Im not against refugees at all, and we take in more than anyone else as it is.

ISIS sprays another crowd dead and we take in 10k people that live conpletely on our tab for at least seven years as a reward? How about we take care of our own first. Is Obama gonna take in some families to live with him?
 
I see a lot of people for letting the refugees come to the U.S. But no rational thought or explanation on how to feed, get work, teach them English, pay for housing. And the biggest of all stop terrorist from coming in. Saudi Arabia refuses all refugee on the assumption that terrorist are moving with the refugees, and a lot of the others are following suit.


http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...y-doing-so-exposes-them-to-risk-of-terrorism/



So by being for letting refugees in and Isil has taken over the machines in Syria and are printing fake passports your all for helping terrorism and the loss of American lives? Please say it ain't so?


http://abcnews.go.com/International...ing-machine-blank-passports/story?id=35700681
 
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Ohhh buttnaked squatters in an airport, stop the presses, let's ignore everything until this national calamity is addressed!

Not another word on international issues until every last butt-naked squatter has a clothed butt and a mat at a shelter, or better yet, a jail plantation!

Seriously though, that's a fluff piece to titillate and outrage readers, in the UK version of the National Enquirer.

Some states have been draining young people for years and could really use an influx of working age families, so this isn't simply a matter of taking refugees at great cost to our nation with no benefit to us as a nation.

Syria was solidly middle income before their (US-fueled) civil war, and they were a US ally to boot.

There's no reason to assume refugee families would be anything but a credit to their communities.



First off the UK Mail is a real newspapers cover more than Celebrity fashion gossip, off beat news, and strange events that were the bread & butter of the Enquire, Globe, Sun, National Examiner and other tabloids.

The UK Mail report all kinds of news from around the globe. Including a lot of stories about ISIS & Terrorism that US press ignores.

Secondly there have always been people who were free spirits living on the road, traveling from place to place on their whit's, camping out, with out no permanent home. When I was a kid they rode the rails and we called em bindle bums, or hobo,

Many time one would come to the back door seeking a meal in exchange for work. my mother would point out what need be done on our large property that was maybe 2 acres. It could have been raking leave, cutting up palm frawns, or trimming bushes, or cutting the lawn with a push mover. Good honest work. In exchange for that promised meal. Many times these bindle bums or hobo spend the night in the wooden tool shed with tool, can good, item my mother canned. The hobo’s were always gone by morning. Never destroyed anything, never made a mess, never stole anything. When we went to the tool shed it was like no one ever spent the night there. These guy I can never recall left a mess, or stole anything.

Many of the homeless today are homeless not by choice. But by circumstance of running out of money. Being evicted from a house, or apartment. Many are living on the street with kids. These people are Americans. Many would take a job if there were jobs.

Kind of sucks see families living in a car, on the streets in boxes for shelter, plus most nights all the homeless shelter in the Valley of the Sun are full up.

Very good friend run a program out of our local Elk Lodge to help homeless, and transitioning veterans. He collects donated unwanted furniture, clothing, household items.

The Elks maintain two storage facilities were ever thing is stored, sized, stored. Furniture can be picked up by refereed veterans.

The clothing, shoe, personal hygiene items are taken to several of the homeless shelter in and around Phoenix to the veterans staying there every week or so.

Good news is the Elk do great work, Bad news is the homeless problem is not going away.

Like I said we have internal problems affecting people already in America. Why take on another problem until our internal problems are fixed.

The U.S.A. has a habit of running to try & solve ever problem from a leaking toilet, to civil war in some third world country. We will dispatch a Carried Group & a Battalion of Seabee’s. But ignore problem on US soil.
 
Again, my family falls into the category you guys are speaking of. Fleeing from war, no plans, no idea if they will stay in the US or if it's just a stop.
Your fears of our system being abused is disputed by the thousands of families who decided to stay and assimilate. That is not a decision you make lightly.

Imagine for some reason Americans have to flee for an undetermined amount of time elsewhere. Would your first thought be "I have to assimilate or go back home"? Or maybe you're a patriot who wouldn't think twice about staying and fighting.
What of your family then? The young? The old? The disabled? When they flee they still think of home and would rather see it again than give up. They wait in a strange land with strange customs praying to see home again and you expect them to adapt full force from the get go when their family and friends are risking life and limb back home?

So assimilation may not be their 1st plan, it wasn't for my family. But now we are US citizens contributing as much as rest of us Americans. My parents struggled through the recessions with the rest of them in the 70's and 80's

I am American because my family wasn't turned away out of fear.

I think the "fear" is being manipulated and contorted as needed. It is quite simple really, and Trump aside, given today's happenings there should be stricter guidelines as to who enters regardless of what or who you are. Yes some of my people were one immigrants too as some were not. However, every generation of men volunteered themselves for the common belief and for what this land that we sleep in every night stands for.

And as far as assimilating, yes I did assimilate. When I was in the military i had the opportunity of travel an staying in the Middle East on several occasions and twice during thier holy month of Ramadan. I could tell that I was a stranger in a foreign land just by some of the looks a received, but as a Catholic in a Islamic nation I gave them the same respect as I demand from. I was a guest in their home and gave them respect and was on my best behavior. With that being said, I don't know who you are or of what nationality you are, but you deserve the right to be safe just as myself or any other American and if that means rejecting any and all refuges until this mess is sorted out then so be it.
 
I think the "fear" is being manipulated and contorted as needed. It is quite simple really, and Trump aside, given today's happenings there should be stricter guidelines as to who enters regardless of what or who you are. Agree

And as far as assimilating, yes I did assimilate. When I was in the military i had the opportunity of travel an staying in the Middle East on several occasions and twice during thier holy month of Ramadan. I could tell that I was a stranger in a foreign land just by some of the looks a received, but as a Catholic in a Islamic nation I gave them the same respect as I demand from. I was a guest in their home and gave them respect and was on my best behavior. Good job. This is how most travellers act when in foreign lands.

With that being said, I don't know who you are or of what nationality you are, but you deserve the right to be safe just as myself or any other American and if that means rejecting any and all refuges until this mess is sorted out then so be it. Disagree.

I do believe the vetting process needs to account for current events. I just don't believe closed borders is going to help the situation overall. 2cents
 
You can believe what ever you wish, I am entitled to report what I see with my own eye effecting people in the state I live in. If you do not agree with me the federal government needs to fix what is broken in the USA before importing more problems into the USA that is your choice.

If the recent events in San Bernardino California did not open you eye to the fact that the USA is not doing a great job venting those who wish to come to America I would say you need to get your eye examined.

Like I said if it was up to me all immigration to the USA would be stopped as of today. Until the USA fixes all of the domestic problems the country is dealing with.

A good place to start with is delivering the services earned & promised to Veterans who wore the uniform of the US Armed Service. The Department of Veterans Affair is doing a marginal job at best delivering the promised benefit to our veterans.


^^^^

This is why people needs to be educated.
 
I'm curious...no one can provide an answer for me so far: if these refugees are such great and contributing members of society, why are other middle east countries not lining up to take them in? Why are they all coming to Europe and North America? What self-respecting 18-35 year old male flees his country instead of staying and fighting to preserve it? Why are all the refugee apologists ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that the FBI itself has stated it cannot vet all the incoming refugees?

Lastly, I work so I can provide for myself and my family; what logical reason would I have for supporting middle eastern refugees with my tax dollars when I can walk down the streets of San Diego and see hundreds if not thousands of homeless Americans who deserve my support more? (I use San Diego as an example because we have a vacation home there)

And don't tell me because "it's the right thing to do" or the "American way." You demand citations for views that are counter to yours, provide factual data that will explain why I should put the needs of refugees above the needs of my fellow countrymen. Be prepared for me to dismiss your sources if they don't agree with my narrative. That seems to be SOP as established by the pro-refugee crowd.
 
Norm,

You are too reasonable and proper thinking. A very rare thing these days.

You are right. We as a country need to learn to/be able to take care of our own "refugees" before we "import" refugees from any other countries, most especially ones from nations known for their numerous contributions to terrorism at large.

No bigotry involved here. I have friends all over the world. My son is of mixed race. My family itself emigrated from Wales in the 1800's to find opportunity and a better life....the American dream....a concept all but lost in todays America except for a privileged few, but that is a topic for another thread.
 
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I'm curious...no one can provide an answer for me so far: if these refugees are such great and contributing members of society, why are other middle east countries not lining up to take them in? Why are they all coming to Europe and North America? What self-respecting 18-35 year old male flees his country instead of staying and fighting to preserve it? Why are all the refugee apologists ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that the FBI itself has stated it cannot vet all the incoming refugees?

Lastly, I work so I can provide for myself and my family; what logical reason would I have for supporting middle eastern refugees with my tax dollars when I can walk down the streets of San Diego and see hundreds if not thousands of homeless Americans who deserve my support more? (I use San Diego as an example because we have a vacation home there)

And don't tell me because "it's the right thing to do" or the "American way." You demand citations for views that are counter to yours, provide factual data that will explain why I should put the needs of refugees above the needs of my fellow countrymen. Be prepared for me to dismiss your sources if they don't agree with my narrative. That seems to be SOP as established by the pro-refugee crowd.

Exactly exactly exactly.

...And like another gent said, why aren't Muslim and Arab nations lining up to take them in? Because they are smart.

Who is gonna pay for it? "YOU?"

We take in refugees from EVERYWHERE...WE bring in people from EVERYWHERE, EVERYDAY... Our generosity is not the problem here. Stop hiding behind that"you're a bigot" BS.
 
The purpose of nations, borders, taxation and government is for a democratic order. Is it not? A government of the people for the people.

The responsibility of keeping that democratic order running is given to the government by the people. To help them in their task they are given certain rights; taxation, the ability to write and enforce laws in accordance with democratic principles etc. It is not for the government to overrule the wishes of the people.

In the European case Frau Merkel, one of many democratically elected representatives of Germany, unilaterally extended a welcome to all comers on behalf of all of the Schengen countries. She lacked that mandate and for any single person to decide on behalf of hundreds of millions of people is a grievous affront to democracy.

This was ill done. Not only did her tyrannical gesture tarnish her legacy as one of the better postwar leaders of Europe she has now been (rightly so) forced to backtrack. There is a human cost to her blunder. Migrants who had no place seeking asylum in Europe risked life and limb to make the journey and must now be deported. In many cases forcefully. Tens of thousands have gone to ground.

For those dismissing the dissenting voices as racists and bigots take a good hard look at what is happening in Europe. Political correctness infected the media and the governing elites. Any criticism of multiculturalism was shot down as racist bigotry. For a while the critics were silenced but all the while resentment was building under the surface.

You can only dam up opposition for so long. The dams have been breaking for a while now. Even before the refugee crisis people were fed up with multiculturalism being forced down their necks and wallets. Anyone who thinks otherwise has not been paying attention.

The refugee crisis in not happening in isolation either. People are fed up with the repressive policy being passed down from Brussels. ECB policy that blatantly favors German price stability at the expense of deflationary recessions everywhere else has not been popular either. We are seeing single issue voters and single issue parties with zero governance track record rising in the polls. In some countries they are now the leading party.

The far right has not been this popular since the second world war. This should scare people. France has been on lock down under an extended state of emergency since the Paris attacks. If the mainstream parties do not listen to the mainstream voters new governments will be elected and they will be composed of single issue officials that are bad for every other facet of civil society.

If governments refuse to police their borders and defend their electorate from invaders... well, it's a sad and distasteful state of affairs. The political process has worked for a long time but deny people their voice and you will see extrajudicial shortcuts.

Anybody care to add up the number of asylum centers that have burned down across Europe in the last 3 weeks? The last 3 months? How about the number of man hours and policemen injured in refugee related operations, either policing the refugees themselves, cleaning up after their crimes, or just plain moderating street "protests" for and against open borders.

The numbers are shocking. The only thing more shocking is the bill for all this madness.
 
saudi wont take them, they have a high unemployment rate as it is. jordan, lebanon wont take them, they have a huge refugee population as it is. united arab emirates, qatar. bahrain. they wont take them they have enough slaves, they dont need anymore. egypt is a population of almost 200 million no room there. in fact most of north africa is jobless, so no refugees going there. oh and israel has never taken a refugee from anywhere. the problems that face that region are complicated, but i believe that as soon as isis has been taken out of the equation, syrians can go home and rebuild.
 
I'm curious...no one can provide an answer for me so far: if these refugees are such great and contributing members of society, why are other middle east countries not lining up to take them in? Why are they all coming to Europe and North America? What self-respecting 18-35 year old male flees his country instead of staying and fighting to preserve it? Why are all the refugee apologists ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that the FBI itself has stated it cannot vet all the incoming refugees?

Lastly, I work so I can provide for myself and my family; what logical reason would I have for supporting middle eastern refugees with my tax dollars when I can walk down the streets of San Diego and see hundreds if not thousands of homeless Americans who deserve my support more? (I use San Diego as an example because we have a vacation home there)

And don't tell me because "it's the right thing to do" or the "American way." You demand citations for views that are counter to yours, provide factual data that will explain why I should put the needs of refugees above the needs of my fellow countrymen. Be prepared for me to dismiss your sources if they don't agree with my narrative. That seems to be SOP as established by the pro-refugee crowd.

I demand citations for factual claims, you're asking for citations for an opinion. I haven't dismissed any sources, as none have been provided.

As for citations as to why we should take in refugees, I would refer you to the book of Matthew.
 
I demand citations for factual claims, you're asking for citations for an opinion. I haven't dismissed any sources, as none have been provided.

As for citations as to why we should take in refugees, I would refer you to the book of Matthew.

...And Ernie already posted in the OP, several statements taken from the Koran:

In Islam, all religions must subvert to the recognition that the worship of Islam is the supreme faith.

In Islamic countries under Muslim control, anyone who is Muslim that would attempt to convert to another faith, say Christianity for example, is considered an apostate and is guilty of a crime which is punishable by death.

A basic tenet of the faith of Islam is to impose the rule of Sharia law - a tenet of the faith. Sharia law is incompatible with a constitutional republic.

Ernest Emerson


...And there are many many more in that book that goes directly against our democratic way of life sooo what's your point with bringing up the Bible?

... And The Pope himself is calling this the beginning of WW3 (agree or disagree, just repeating what he said)... Sure, the Vatican took in a handful of refugees, but they were Christians. Even the head of the religion the book of Matthew is from don't want those problems... In fact, Muslims (not just ISIS but Muslim countries) threaten attacking the Vatican all the time.

... America as a nation and as a people already do ALOT of things from the book of Matthew. The book of Matthew is a matter of fact, a part of the Koran also and their own Muslims brothers don't help. In our case, a good metaphor is like drowning in the sea (us, debt poverty, the whole shabang), and looking for someone else that is drowning. Ever try to stay afloat in water while someone is trying to pull you down? Not a good feeling.
 
Again, there are sooo many ways America takes in foreigners: from asylum (refugee), to immigration quotas, work Visa, family, marriage, thousands a day and rightly so... I dislike how the pro Syrian refugee crowd, namecall and demonize us like everything wrong with the world is our fault. Doing the "right thing" shouldn't be at the cost of doing other things wrong. LA schools just got shutdown today. What is it tomorrow? They are affecting our lives. Think things through a little bit.
 
in the quran., their is no punishment for an apostate. it is not a basic tenant to put people to death. that is not to say that they dont kill apostates, this simply means they dont follow sharia. that would be their culture, not their religion. also the first islamic community was a pluralistic community. there were muslims, jews and idol worshipers all living in the same community. so to say islam is not compatible with our society is a false statement, to say that people are incompatible with our society, would be a true statement.
 
I'm curious...no one can provide an answer for me so far: if these refugees are such great and contributing members of society, why are other middle east countries not lining up to take them in? Why are they all coming to Europe and North America? What self-respecting 18-35 year old male flees his country instead of staying and fighting to preserve it? Why are all the refugee apologists ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that the FBI itself has stated it cannot vet all the incoming refugees?

Lastly, I work so I can provide for myself and my family; what logical reason would I have for supporting middle eastern refugees with my tax dollars when I can walk down the streets of San Diego and see hundreds if not thousands of homeless Americans who deserve my support more? (I use San Diego as an example because we have a vacation home there)

And don't tell me because "it's the right thing to do" or the "American way." You demand citations for views that are counter to yours, provide factual data that will explain why I should put the needs of refugees above the needs of my fellow countrymen. Be prepared for me to dismiss your sources if they don't agree with my narrative. That seems to be SOP as established by the pro-refugee crowd.

Your post make great sense, and you asked great questions. I was in San Diego last October in the downtown section near PETCO Park the Baseball Stadium. I personally saw an armada of people pushing shopping carts with all their worldly pocession in them, people begging, panhandeling, lot of people sleep on the street, in door way, and make shift shelter made out of cardboard.

San Diego is in the USA, but I thought I was in some third world country like like India, or Bangladesh. San Diego was recently list in the top 100 place to live in the USA. It also is one of the most expensive places to live in the USA. San Diego has a problem with homeless people like most large metropolitan area of gthe USA.

The Middle East Countries are not line up to take refugees, because they understand the problems associated with refugees, there leader are not stupid like the USA, and many of the people who are stupid in the USA called members of congress & our president.

Even after Obama leaves office he will still have protection round the clock on the tax payer called the Secret Service. Where I live if I did 911 I may see a deputy sheriff in 10-15 minutes.
 
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