The "Sebenza" effect

[evilgreg]

Honestly, I had really high expectations but it just didn't do anything for me. It's well-made no doubt, but it's not the end-all, be-all that it's made out to be. Hey, that rhymed.

This sums up my experience. Maybe I would have liked it better if I didn't expect it to be great, but whatever the reason I was severely underwhelmed. The best Sebenza features I noticed were:

1. How easy it was to sell
2. How little I lost selling it

I don't care for them, for my part I'd much rather have a Southard in my hand. That said, I'd recommend you buy one anyway. If you think you might want one, you won't be happy until you've tried it. Worst case, they're easy to sell and it won't cost you much at all to sell if you do.

 

[bobs1415]

I thought about buying a Sebenza, but instead I bought 20 Moras.

Clever you are.

 

[evanPGH]

Unrelated aside about the blade steel / heat treat:
Since I've gotten my wicked edge, I have found I no longer lust after those ridiculously highly-wear-resistant steels like M4 - I can just touch up the blade in a couple minutes to a perfect edge with absolute reliability. S35VN is a wonderful steel (having used Spyderco's, ZT's, Microtech's, and Kizer's) so I'm not too worried about that. It strops easily and wonderfully to a very fine edge, and the WE can be employed to make it terrifying.

I have very simple taste in steel and actually prefer carbon. I don't lust after super steels nor do i mind sharpening.

While you may not mind sharpening your knife more often, do you think that a $400+ knife should have less than perfect heat treatment? I've owned and used a few different blades in S35VN and CRK's was easily the worst all around in my experience.

Something to consider.

 

[Jesse B.]

I eventually bought the small (CF) Sebenza mainly because of its reputation in the knife community as the ne plus ultra of its kind. Owning it has led me to two conclusions:
First--with the caveat that "perfection" is fundamentally unattainable--the Sebenza is close in design and even closer in execution to absolute perfection.
Second, I'm just not comfortable (at this moment) clipping $400 to my pocket every day. I have a number of less expensive knives I prefer to EDC because I wouldn't be reduced to tears if I were to lose them, and they're at least equally functional as the Sebenza.

 

[RamZar]

I remember joining this forum a year ago and frequently hearing about this Sebenza! Sebenza this and Sebenza that. I imagined that users were just glorifying and perhaps justifying their latest expensive quests. Well, I got a Small Sebenza 21 Insingo for myself and the quality is everything it's cracked up to be with superb tolerances and smoothness. It's not the only one for me since I actually carry a William Henry B12 and Olson Quick Flick much more often. Personal taste. I've gotten other CRKs and all are excellent. Particularly like the Wilson Combat treatments. I do wish for a small 3" CRK flipper.

By the way, as a brief aside, the quest reminded me of how Tuco goes to a revolver shop (parched in more ways than one) and gravitates to the premium counter and even then fine-tunes a model for himself (doubts on the interchangeability of parts):

[video=youtube_share;meP_Ufwj-FY]http://youtu.be/meP_Ufwj-FY[/video]

 

[zl1]

Sebenza 25 is currently my only knife

 

[ChrisB507]

Honestly, I had really high expectations but it just didn't do anything for me. It's well-made no doubt, but it's not the end-all, be-all that it's made out to be...

I feel the same. I'm glad I got a Sebenza, and it is a fine knife. I carry mine infrequently and rotate it with a bunch of other knives.

 

[Vilarenso]

haha, I'm on the opposite end of this. after getting my seb, i wanted to get the that next knife. i ended up trading it for that next knife oddly enough

 

[brownshoe]

Sebenzas are great knives, but they travel with a lot of BS. A swiss army knife is just as well built for its intended purpose. No true knife nut will ever be satisfied with just one...they'll need a flipper, an IKBS, a lever-lok, a button lock, a friction folder... A sebenza can never fill all of a knife lovers desires

 

[91a2jettavr6]

Then... Why did you respond to this thread? I'm asking for personal experiences, not personal preferences. There are many knives I own that I know many other people have no interest in. That's neither surprising or interesting to anyone.

Thank you for relaying my thoughts so I didn't have to .

 

[91a2jettavr6]

Sebenza 25 is currently my only knife

Now that I have one, I can understand why that is (or may be, anyway).

 

[MostMenAreRuthless]

I love my Sebenzas. My disdain for any type of blade play was satisfied. My disdain for poorly mated parts was satisfied. My love for Ti was satisfied. My love for smooth action and awesome ergonomics was satisfied. I simply love everything about them and cannot register any complaints.

HOWEVER,

To each their own. Use what you like. Carry what you like. It's all gravy.

 

[bpeezer]

I have very simple taste in steel and actually prefer carbon. I don't lust after super steels nor do i mind sharpening.

While you may not mind sharpening your knife more often, do you think that a $400+ knife should have less than perfect heat treatment? I've owned and used a few different blades in S35VN and CRK's was easily the worst all around in my experience.

Something to consider.

Keep in mind, Chris Reeve designed the Sebenza to be easily maintained by the user with even the most basic mechanical aptitude. He likely intended for it to be easily sharpened as well, which would explain the slightly lower HRC heat treatment used. I remember watching a video where he talks about the development of S35VN and the need to use this steel over S30V based upon customer request over the years. I'll try to find the video!

Edit to add: Yup, in the Shop Tour Part 1 video he talks about it. He specifically says that they weren't shooting for best edge retention, but that he wanted a quality steel that would allow the average customer could get his edge back.

 

[aquaman67]

If I wasn't left handed and liked frame locks I'd be broke.

 

[Cynic2701]

If I wasn't left handed and liked frame locks I'd be broke.

CRK makes left handed versions of their knives

I have a left handed 21 and Umnumzaan.

 

[evanPGH]

Keep in mind, Chris Reeve designed the Sebenza to be easily maintained by the user with even the most basic mechanical aptitude. He likely intended for it to be easily sharpened as well, which would explain the slightly lower HRC heat treatment used. I remember watching a video where he talks about the development of S35VN and the need to use this steel over S30V based upon customer request over the years. I'll try to find the video!

Edit to add: Yup, in the Shop Tour Part 1 video he talks about it. He specifically says that they weren't shooting for best edge retention, but that he wanted a quality steel that would allow the average customer could get his edge back.

I have heard that before but I find s35vn is still incredibly easy to maintain even at the higher hardness.

I cannot tell any difference in ease of sharpening between the two.

 

[jazub]

Keep in mind, Chris Reeve designed the Sebenza to be easily maintained by the user with even the most basic mechanical aptitude. He likely intended for it to be easily sharpened as well, which would explain the slightly lower HRC heat treatment used. I remember watching a video where he talks about the development of S35VN and the need to use this steel over S30V based upon customer request over the years. I'll try to find the video!

Edit to add: Yup, in the Shop Tour Part 1 video he talks about it. He specifically says that they weren't shooting for best edge retention, but that he wanted a quality steel that would allow the average customer could get his edge back.

It is interesting to now read/see this given as a basis for the use of S35VN in Chris Reeve Knives. Initially, two of the bullet point "benefits" listed in CRK literature and advertisements were that the steel caused less wear and tear on equipment and was easier for the company to finish. Since discussion of low edge retention performance, it seems these "features" are no longer mentioned by CRK or its advocates. Does anybody else recall this version of history or am I taking crazy pills?

 

[Cypress]

Having handled a Seb and an Umn, I can say that the manufacturing specs were beyond any knife I've owned or handled.

The pivot on both were sticky, and couldn't be flung open with a thumb no matter how hard I tried. S35VN is no slouch and may be easy to bring back to sharp, but I prefer steel that I don't need to sharpen after every use (M390, M4, etc). To the CRK's credit, the knives were significantly sharper than any other factory knife out of the box.

Nice knives? Yes.

$400 nice? Not in MY opinion, but whatever tickles your pickle.

 

[Sonnydaze]

Glassy smooth pivot, perfect lockup, super tight tolerance (and some concerns about the heat treatment being too soft) - is that what did it for you? Was it the overall feel of the handle? Please, tell me, as best you can, why (or if) your Sebenza(s) changed your carry / purchasing habits.
do those same sentiments also apply to the Umnumzaan? QUOTE]

You have pretty well named all of the major points. Blade Show's repeat-winner of the Manufacturers' Award...by a jury of his peers. I've had two Zaans and many Sebbies, that I enjoy buying and selling after I have them for a bit. Sebbies are so nice, and I have a few "large" but I've carried a Zaan for most of the last two years. The smoothest Sebbie was, to me, an old Classic model. I much prefer plain slab-sided titanium. The "small" Sebbie is too small for my hand. The large Sebbie is very close in size to the Zaan, and is plenty large enough for my hand.

I prefer the LBS Zaan (newer design) which many folks do not. For me, it's much easier to close the blade, due to a small, but critical to me, design change in the amount of thumb access to the lockbar. (A dremel can do the same thing, but would void the warranty)

Here is a pic of the two basic designs of the Zaan.
A pic of the Zaan's lockbar titanium slab cutout redesign follows...showing greater access to the lockbar.
The third pic is the Umnumzaan at top, followed by a few large Sebenza models... Yes, of course I am a fanboy...justifiably, IMO.

 

[338375]

Aftet purchasing new, I carried a large 21 for 5-6 months. It got smooth to open but never really gave me a knife "high". The soft steel didn't help me fall in love with that price point, either. I sold mine for about a $100 loss and haven't looked back.

The main "effect" it had was to put the value of other American made brands into context for me. I get more of a kick out of the Axis lock so it has helped me to justify a titanium scale mod purchase for my titanium fix.

Cool that other people enjoy them. The 25 is a beautiful looking design.

I too have been reading the virtues of CRK's, especially the Sebenza, for quite a few years... After the never ending testimonials, I finally was able to look at one in person, a few years back. I spent about an hour in the local shop fondling a small Sebenza. It was nicely made, but I didn't get that "high" either, or have bells go off, and angels singing.

After that, I figured it just wasn't for me. Fast forward to today, and after yet more reading and looking, I have found two CRK's that I really want to try. A 25, and a small Elk Mountain Sebenza. I guess an hour in a knife shop just isn't enough to form a good opinion. I will probably buy one, but I doubt if I will get both. I will then carry and use that knife for at least 6 months or so, and then form an opinion. I will either be hooked, or I will sell it.
At least I will know for certain what my personal opinion is....

I have been using BM's for quite a few years now, and have been happy with all that I have owned. Even looking at the CRK's, I still have a desire to get more BM's, and if that was the only folders I owned the rest of my life, I wouldn't feel like I was missing out much...

I hear a lot about "softness" in CRK's. Here's a thread with actual HRC values that were independently tested on other production knives. Note the HRC values for other S30V knives (ZT 0350, Kershaw Leek, Spyderco Military, and Buck Vantage Pro).

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...of-a-sampling-of-production-and-custom-knives

To answer your question, I think that a Sebenza or an Umnumzaan overshadows other knives because of how many small details come together into one package. These details frequently aren't realized until a person actually carries and uses the knife, so sometimes people seem to overlook them when they only keep them as safe queens or trade/sell them off without carrying it.

That could very well be my problem. Just spending time fondling one in a knife shop, probably isn't enough. But in all honesty, how many knives do we buy, and immediately bond with ? One of my absolute favorites is the Benchmade Mini Grip. I currently have two, and will probably get at least 2 or 3 more. I remember when I got my first one though. I thought it was cheap feeling, and didn't expect much out of it. Boy was I wrong

Honestly I think if there was a chris reeve flipper (one that was made for working people (not collectors)) that would end the knife hunts for me.

As much as I love my sebenza, sometimes (many times) I need to open it one handed. Last thing I want inside a freezer is to drop everything and remove seb from leather pouch to use.

I have to open dozens of boxes at times and a flipper is perfect for that. I just want one with Chris reeve tolerances.

Why not just get a small fixed blade ?