Spike Hawk is pretty decent for under $30...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=747505
The Ultimate tactical Hawk...?
- Thread starter mmcc100
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Spike Hawk is pretty decent for under $30...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=747505
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Peter LaGana demonstrated the original Vietnam Tomahawk for the US Army, can't remember the exact year, though... I am not at home where my 'data' is. He made literally 1,000's of them for the military during the Vietnam conflict alone. This is a documented fact. The reason most people find this hard to believe is that this tomahawk was kept somewhat secret since the media would have considered the whole idea 'barbaric'. In fact, it did get out at one point, and that was the exact accusation. That is also why the VTAC is not widely known about by most people today... it is not considered 'politically corrrect'.
'Google': Vietnam Tomahawk, Peter LaGana, VTAC and Andy Prisco.
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VTAC's are constantly flowing into service... many, many 1,000's have been made so far, much more than the original VT's. The VTAC is a vast improvement over the original, BTW. The current length, etc. is right for the purpose it serves... I don''t expect any changes (except the sheath that was recently changed, and another leather version designed by a woman that is also being offered) to be made in the forseeable future.
And yes... I have made contact with the folks there at ATC, that is part of the reason I know these details.
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Right on, Jim!!! :thumbup:
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I have/had a few traditional hawks that I really liked, but am looking for more "untraditional". At first, I was going with the Killian dsigned one (K-5 or BM) and like you, a few said it was more of a breacher. I like the RMJ, but reallt don't have that much money or patience. That would be the one if I could. I am really looking for something that could be used as a fighter as well as chop wood and it has to be mean-looking too! I think I have decided on a MMHW #3 or even the large axe. I asked MMHW if they could make #3 in a 19" version and am awaiting reply.It'snot exactly a spike hawk, but I like it! My other choice at this point is either the American Tomahawk (long version).
I plan on getting one of the CS trench hawks, but I don't think they're out yet.
Peter LaGana demonstrated the original Vietnam Tomahawk for the US Army, can't remember the exact year, though... I am not at home where my 'data' is. He made literally 1,000's of them for the military during the Vietnam conflict alone. This is a documented fact. The reason most people find this hard to believe is that this tomahawk was kept somewhat secret since the media would have considered the whole idea 'barbaric'. In fact, it did get out at one point, and that was the exact accusation. That is also why the VTAC is not widely known about by most people today... it is not considered 'politically corrrect'.
'Google': Vietnam Tomahawk, Peter LaGana, VTAC and Andy Prisco.
Glock, First tour in Vietnam was 1966 and last one ended Dec 1972, All with US Army SF, worked most projects, PRU, SOG/CCC, FANK, Home team was A-432,
Glock, Depending on the project ,we had access to any weapon system in the world, but no LaGana tomahawks
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SLOW2RUN,
I 'cut and pasted' the paragraph below from the article titled: "Tomahawks and War". I have a total of 8 articles dealing with tomahawks and their history that I have accumulated over the past couple of years. I would have to research to find the author's name and the date for this article, however. Anyway, here is a quote from that story, just one paragraph long...
"Today, select forces in Afghanistan and Iraq carry tomahawks as a special entry tool because it can quickly open mud-wood structures or break windows to make shooting positions. September’s Blade Magazine carries an interesting article showcasing seven companies that manufacture and supply tomahawks for military use. So why didn’t we know the tomahawk was back in use? According to Justin Gingrich, a military-to-civilian liaison for the Ranger Training Brigade at Fort Benning, Georgia, the last time tomahawks were used was during the Vietnam War. Army Rangers and other special units carried them but were not allowed to bring them home after the war. “The government thought it would be too barbaric or brutal to show the tomahawks,” says Gingrich. Perhaps that is a bit of a disservice to a tool has seen service for over 300 years and gives the user a set of all-in-one choices. It can be used for climbing, digging, chopping, and cutting not to mention its usefulness as a throwing weapon or for hand-to-hand combat. Ryan Johnson’s Eagle Talon appears to go one step farther. Its one piece design gives it the capability of breaking through locks, doors or even cinder blocks and is standard issue for the 1st Batalion, 4th Marine Regiment in Iraq."
There is a lot of other data out there to prove the Vietnam Tomahawk designed by Peter LaGana was used in large numbers, even though you did not have access to one.
Here is another one of the articles I have, in it's entirety...
--------------------------------------------
'New' Equipment
Army, Nov 2003 by Gourley, Scott R
U.S. Army planners are fielding three new program additions to the warfighter's equipment inventory. Historically proven additions include the Vietnam-era tactical tomahawk and the venerable 7.62 mm M14 rifle. New technology is also being tested and evaluated through the XM8 carbine.
In late July 2003, American Tomahawk Company LLC announced the selection of its tactical tomahawk for addition to breaching kits in selected Army infantry squads.
The system was originally developed in the mid-1960s as a hand weapon for selected Army special operations and Marine Corps units. Recently, special operations forces have carried the tactical tomahawk during Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom. Weighing approximately one pound (17 ounces), the tactical tomahawk has a head length of 8.5 inches, a spike length of 3.25 inches and five cutting edges. Originally designed as a hand weapon, the device is now being applied as a versatile tool in non-explosive breaching operations, egress, excavation, extraction, obstacle removal and a multitude of combat-related tasks.
According to SFC Jeff Myhre, Force Modernization NCO for the Army's first Stryker brigade (3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division), the tactical tomahawk is being added to the brigade's breaching kits under the Rapid Fielding Initiative (RFI) program. "You don't always need the breach backpack with the halligan tool and the battering ram, or the bolt cutters," Myhre explained. "A small tool, which in this case is the tomahawk, has allowed us to do many things. It's kind of a universal tool: you can break windows; you can knock padlocks off; you can pry doors open; you can cut through things; punch holes in stuff. It's kind of a widget that allows you to do a lot of different things. And we added it to the breach kit as a functional tool."
I 'cut and pasted' the paragraph below from the article titled: "Tomahawks and War". I have a total of 8 articles dealing with tomahawks and their history that I have accumulated over the past couple of years. I would have to research to find the author's name and the date for this article, however. Anyway, here is a quote from that story, just one paragraph long...
"Today, select forces in Afghanistan and Iraq carry tomahawks as a special entry tool because it can quickly open mud-wood structures or break windows to make shooting positions. September’s Blade Magazine carries an interesting article showcasing seven companies that manufacture and supply tomahawks for military use. So why didn’t we know the tomahawk was back in use? According to Justin Gingrich, a military-to-civilian liaison for the Ranger Training Brigade at Fort Benning, Georgia, the last time tomahawks were used was during the Vietnam War. Army Rangers and other special units carried them but were not allowed to bring them home after the war. “The government thought it would be too barbaric or brutal to show the tomahawks,” says Gingrich. Perhaps that is a bit of a disservice to a tool has seen service for over 300 years and gives the user a set of all-in-one choices. It can be used for climbing, digging, chopping, and cutting not to mention its usefulness as a throwing weapon or for hand-to-hand combat. Ryan Johnson’s Eagle Talon appears to go one step farther. Its one piece design gives it the capability of breaking through locks, doors or even cinder blocks and is standard issue for the 1st Batalion, 4th Marine Regiment in Iraq."
There is a lot of other data out there to prove the Vietnam Tomahawk designed by Peter LaGana was used in large numbers, even though you did not have access to one.
Here is another one of the articles I have, in it's entirety...
--------------------------------------------
'New' Equipment
Army, Nov 2003 by Gourley, Scott R
U.S. Army planners are fielding three new program additions to the warfighter's equipment inventory. Historically proven additions include the Vietnam-era tactical tomahawk and the venerable 7.62 mm M14 rifle. New technology is also being tested and evaluated through the XM8 carbine.
In late July 2003, American Tomahawk Company LLC announced the selection of its tactical tomahawk for addition to breaching kits in selected Army infantry squads.
The system was originally developed in the mid-1960s as a hand weapon for selected Army special operations and Marine Corps units. Recently, special operations forces have carried the tactical tomahawk during Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom. Weighing approximately one pound (17 ounces), the tactical tomahawk has a head length of 8.5 inches, a spike length of 3.25 inches and five cutting edges. Originally designed as a hand weapon, the device is now being applied as a versatile tool in non-explosive breaching operations, egress, excavation, extraction, obstacle removal and a multitude of combat-related tasks.
According to SFC Jeff Myhre, Force Modernization NCO for the Army's first Stryker brigade (3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division), the tactical tomahawk is being added to the brigade's breaching kits under the Rapid Fielding Initiative (RFI) program. "You don't always need the breach backpack with the halligan tool and the battering ram, or the bolt cutters," Myhre explained. "A small tool, which in this case is the tomahawk, has allowed us to do many things. It's kind of a universal tool: you can break windows; you can knock padlocks off; you can pry doors open; you can cut through things; punch holes in stuff. It's kind of a widget that allows you to do a lot of different things. And we added it to the breach kit as a functional tool."
Well, in 1972 I singed for all the Equipment that Lima Rangers had, when they demobilize to go back to CONUS, I then transferred it to B-43/FNANK .Lima Ranges was the last Ranger company to leave Vietnam, and at that time base close to the 7 Cav, Good men all, but no tomahawks did I find in Lima co, or with Hotel Rangers in 1971 when they were demobilized to go back to CONUS, some of them volunteers to continue the war and transferred to SOG/CCC,and and did remarkable work for their one zero's, but no tomahawks found, that's why I said ( don't think they're more that 50 hawks in Army hands in any given year ) And we in US Army 5th SF Gp and 1th SF Gp did have any. You need to talk to the Marines They must had them all !
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Thanks for posting, It was a knife or a 22 cal. coat-woodsman or Hi-stander we picked most.
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Dusty One,
I had never seen that particular article, but it fits everything I know from my 8 articles. It appears to have been cut short, I may try to find the whole article.
SLOW2RUN,
Just under 4,000 Vietnam Tomahawks were made for the Vietnam war. This may be why you never saw one. Compare 4,000 tomahawks to the total number of soldiers who saw service in Vietnam.
I had never seen that particular article, but it fits everything I know from my 8 articles. It appears to have been cut short, I may try to find the whole article.
SLOW2RUN,
Just under 4,000 Vietnam Tomahawks were made for the Vietnam war. This may be why you never saw one. Compare 4,000 tomahawks to the total number of soldiers who saw service in Vietnam.
To the OP.....I was in your shoes a few months ago and went ahead and bit the bullet and went with RMJ. I got two of their Shrikes and absolutely love them. Given the fantastic price break they give to soldiers such as myself and the free laser engraving they provided as well....it was well worth the wait! The customer service was second to none and I would not hesitate to recommend them to any of my mates. The one piece design was a huge deal for me and the inherent durability was also a non negotiable aspect as well. They fit my hand like a glove and they definitely deliver the force and cutting power desired in a lightweight package. One goes with me to the woods whenever I venture out and I do not notice the weight when packing it around for an extended amount of time. I truly do understand that e few months is a while to wait but the wait is worth it and if you keep in mind that it will be with you for life.....it is not that long to wait! Best of luck in your search and I wish you all the best in the woods. Chris
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I will qualify what follows by stating that I have never been in combat and also am new to hawk use. Against that I will add that I have been in the military and have used blades for a long time. My all time favourite large blade is the kukri.
Recently I bought an American Tomahawk Company CQC-T. I am still evaluating it but so far I reckon it must come close to being the ultimate CQC Hawk.
1. It is so light. I hardly know that I am carrying it on a belt. As any hiker is aware this is a major plus. As any military person knows, weight is a major factor in whether something will be carried. I have a K5 hawk but I ain't a gonna carry that thing other than in a vehicle. If you ain't carrying it on you then it probably is not a good CQC weapon. I personally team this hawk up with a multitool and this pair seem to meet all my needs.
2. The CQC-T is very quick to manouvre. It has a very good size to weight ratio.
3. It carries exceptionally well on a belt in the supplied sheath. I don't know how well the supplied sheath stands up to continued use. I'll wait and see. But so far I am impressed. Many people may dislike the enclosed sheath. They might like to have a sheath that makes the hawk quickly available. But I love the supplied sheath. I can walk around my property with it and not alarm neighbours. This is in contrast to carrying a large knife on a belt which people readily recognise and some become concerned. This would be an added plus for hikers.
I don't know how safe it would be, but if people wanted to you probably can make a cheap quick draw carry sheath by shaping and cutting a metal coat hanger. I used to comfortably carry a geological hammer around that way for years on a military webbing belt when in the bush. I am not sure how this would work with this razor sharp hawk but I'll give it a try one day - but very carefully.
4. Because of its shape and length. It gets in the way less than any similar sized bladed tool I have ever carried. I know many forumites would prefer a longer haft but I have none to compare to at the moment.
4. As a utility tool it excels. I am using it for splitting small timber for kindling for my wood stove. It does this job better than any similarly weighted/sized tool I own. It also appears that both sharp ends can be easily and safely used for utility purposes when the handle is held choked up against the blade. It has breaching tool capabilities but doesn't compare to the heavy K5. I'm sure it's thinner blade geometry makes it less capable in this area than my VTAC. But of course, the VTAC is less capable when working on timber and so less capable as a hiking/camping tool.
5. The CQC-T feels better balanced in the hand than my similarly weighted VTAC.
6. I believe it is made of the same haft material as the VTAC. If you can believe some of the VTAC videos, this handle material is virtually indestructible.
7. The rings on the grip are surprisingly comfortable and give the CQC-T a very secure grip - more so than my VTAC.
8. I don't have any hawks with a longer haft length to compare to. I know a lot of forumites would prefer a longer haft. I have a couple of longer haft Cold Steel hawks arriving this week that will allow me a better evaluation. All I know is that this blade cuts into wood deeply and easily with the haft length it has. I shudder to think what it would do to flesh. And the designer appears to be well credentialed and designed this hawk as the name indicates - for CQC.
My one concern about the CQC-T is that it reminds me of the pistol. I believe the pistol is one of the most dangerous firearms in the hands of an untrained person because of the ability to change its point of aim drastically without a person being aware of doing this. I used to be what is called a Firing Point Officer in the military downunder. I remember the most dangerous incident I encountered was when training foreign military. One person, perhaps because of language or accent differences, had failed to place the earmuffs in position over the ears on the range. With a lot of men at the firing point, I missed it. After the first shot, he realised it. I watched in horror when with a cocked pistol in hand, finger on the trigger, pistol pointed against his temple, he attempted to place the earmuffs on. I waited till he had the weapon safely pointed down the range before I had a few words with him. In reality of course I should have picked up on him before it went that far and I can assure you my mistake was never repeated. But I think that the CQC-T is the most dangerous blade I own when in the hands of an untrained person. Both ends are extremly sharp. I have bought every video I can on using hawks to help myself to rectify that problem. In a strange sort of way, that is another recommendation for its abilities as a hawk for CQC.
Recently I bought an American Tomahawk Company CQC-T. I am still evaluating it but so far I reckon it must come close to being the ultimate CQC Hawk.
1. It is so light. I hardly know that I am carrying it on a belt. As any hiker is aware this is a major plus. As any military person knows, weight is a major factor in whether something will be carried. I have a K5 hawk but I ain't a gonna carry that thing other than in a vehicle. If you ain't carrying it on you then it probably is not a good CQC weapon. I personally team this hawk up with a multitool and this pair seem to meet all my needs.
2. The CQC-T is very quick to manouvre. It has a very good size to weight ratio.
3. It carries exceptionally well on a belt in the supplied sheath. I don't know how well the supplied sheath stands up to continued use. I'll wait and see. But so far I am impressed. Many people may dislike the enclosed sheath. They might like to have a sheath that makes the hawk quickly available. But I love the supplied sheath. I can walk around my property with it and not alarm neighbours. This is in contrast to carrying a large knife on a belt which people readily recognise and some become concerned. This would be an added plus for hikers.
I don't know how safe it would be, but if people wanted to you probably can make a cheap quick draw carry sheath by shaping and cutting a metal coat hanger. I used to comfortably carry a geological hammer around that way for years on a military webbing belt when in the bush. I am not sure how this would work with this razor sharp hawk but I'll give it a try one day - but very carefully.
4. Because of its shape and length. It gets in the way less than any similar sized bladed tool I have ever carried. I know many forumites would prefer a longer haft but I have none to compare to at the moment.
4. As a utility tool it excels. I am using it for splitting small timber for kindling for my wood stove. It does this job better than any similarly weighted/sized tool I own. It also appears that both sharp ends can be easily and safely used for utility purposes when the handle is held choked up against the blade. It has breaching tool capabilities but doesn't compare to the heavy K5. I'm sure it's thinner blade geometry makes it less capable in this area than my VTAC. But of course, the VTAC is less capable when working on timber and so less capable as a hiking/camping tool.
5. The CQC-T feels better balanced in the hand than my similarly weighted VTAC.
6. I believe it is made of the same haft material as the VTAC. If you can believe some of the VTAC videos, this handle material is virtually indestructible.
7. The rings on the grip are surprisingly comfortable and give the CQC-T a very secure grip - more so than my VTAC.
8. I don't have any hawks with a longer haft length to compare to. I know a lot of forumites would prefer a longer haft. I have a couple of longer haft Cold Steel hawks arriving this week that will allow me a better evaluation. All I know is that this blade cuts into wood deeply and easily with the haft length it has. I shudder to think what it would do to flesh. And the designer appears to be well credentialed and designed this hawk as the name indicates - for CQC.
My one concern about the CQC-T is that it reminds me of the pistol. I believe the pistol is one of the most dangerous firearms in the hands of an untrained person because of the ability to change its point of aim drastically without a person being aware of doing this. I used to be what is called a Firing Point Officer in the military downunder. I remember the most dangerous incident I encountered was when training foreign military. One person, perhaps because of language or accent differences, had failed to place the earmuffs in position over the ears on the range. With a lot of men at the firing point, I missed it. After the first shot, he realised it. I watched in horror when with a cocked pistol in hand, finger on the trigger, pistol pointed against his temple, he attempted to place the earmuffs on. I waited till he had the weapon safely pointed down the range before I had a few words with him. In reality of course I should have picked up on him before it went that far and I can assure you my mistake was never repeated. But I think that the CQC-T is the most dangerous blade I own when in the hands of an untrained person. Both ends are extremly sharp. I have bought every video I can on using hawks to help myself to rectify that problem. In a strange sort of way, that is another recommendation for its abilities as a hawk for CQC.
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This is a very well written and informative analysis\post Glenn Jones...thank you!
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Dusty One
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Hey folks,
Nice hawks, guys !
Just wanted to stick a pic up of one I received a little while back,
and before you ask, I haven't done anything but fondle it.
Sayoc Winkler hawk.
@ Glenn,
Man, if I could write as well as you do I'd be a happy guy, anywho...
just got your message and I wanna' offer up a big time CONGRATS,
yak at ya' soon ! :thumbup:
Doug
Nice hawks, guys !
Just wanted to stick a pic up of one I received a little while back,
and before you ask, I haven't done anything but fondle it.
Sayoc Winkler hawk.
@ Glenn,
Man, if I could write as well as you do I'd be a happy guy, anywho...
just got your message and I wanna' offer up a big time CONGRATS,
yak at ya' soon ! :thumbup:
Doug
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- Nov 6, 2009
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- 1,136
Hey folks,
Nice hawks, guys !
Just wanted to stick a pic up of one I received a little while back,
and before you ask, I haven't done anything but fondle it.
Sayoc Winkler hawk.
@ Glenn,
Man, if I could write as well as you do I'd be a happy guy, anywho...
just got your message and I wanna' offer up a big time CONGRATS,
yak at ya' soon ! :thumbup:
Doug
Beautiful hawk. I got to speak with Winkler and his wife at Blade show. Great people.