The Ultimate tactical Hawk...?

I have now been lucky enough to handle and play with and own quite a variety of so called tactical tomahawks that are currently available. Unfortunately, many are priced well above the original $250 mark. I have come to the conclusion that there are three reasonably distinct groups of what could be referred to as tactical hawks, at least for the hawks I have handled.

Group One (Potentially Concealable Close Quarter Combat Hawks)-This group includes hawks like the Sayok Winkler spike and non-spike Hawks, and I suspect the RMJ Kestral. Perhaps the CQC-T hawk could be included here if a decent quick release sheath could be made for it. All these hawks have a main reason for existence - close quarter combat. One requirement of this group is that a quick release sheath is a must and they must be short in length so as to be concealable. Their blade profile is relatively thin and knife-like. Maybe they could be used as breaching tools at a pinch but that is generally not their primary function. All are reasonably lightweight. For example, the CQC-T weighs 20 ounces. The wooden handled Sayok Winkler non-spike hawk weighs 21 ounces (without the sheath) and the spike version weighs 22 ounces. The Tracker Dan sheath for the Sayoc Winklers probably epitomizes the type of sheath required for this type of tactical hawk with its lightweight and quick release using only one hand. I personally like the Sayoc Winkler hawks in this group for one major reason, they are specifically designed so that the spike is less likely to injure the user compared to say something like the CQC-T. Their disadvantage is their high purchase price. Most of the available training dvd's do not primarily show how to use this type of short handled hawk effectively, in my opinion. However, I have been told that there will finally be a training dvd completed this year for the Sayoc Winkler hawks.

Group Two (breaching tools) - This group generally includes heavier and longer handled hawks (but not always) but are recognized by having a much thicker blade profile than those hawks in group one. The four that I own that fall into this group are the American Tomahawk VTAC, the RMJ Shrike, the K5 and the Cold Steel Trench Hawk. They can be use for close quarter combat but probably their number one function is as a breaching tool. For value for money, the Trench Hawk is amazing value. All four mentioned are excellent hawks. My favourite is the Shrike. It is a relatively heavy indestructible hawk. Mine weighs 765 grams (over 27 ounces) without the sheath. However, it is one of the most perfectly balanced hawks I own (not head heavy) which makes it extremely quick in the hand so that it could be used for close quarter combat as could the other two, but that is not its prime function. I actually had to weigh mine three times because it felt so light in the hand and I couldn't believe my scales - it is quite an amazing design. The only minor thing that I don't like about the Shrike is the thinness of the steel haft near the head which makes it less comfortable when the hawk is held close to the head. If you ever get the chance to view the head of a CQC-T and a Shrike together you will see the quite prominent difference in blade thickness which aids in deciding whether you are dealing with a category one or two hawk. One is a slicer, one is pounder. The Cold Steel Trench Hawk and the VTAC are both relatively inexpensive hawks.

Group Three (long handled combat hawks) - I would place lightweight hawks with a minimum 22 inch long haft into this category. Many of the new lighter weight Cold Steel models could fall into this category. I have one from Steve from Coal Creek Forge that I would identify with this group. It has a 22 inch haft and weighs only 17 ounces. VEC's hawks would be placed here. A great training dvd for this group of hawks is the Cold Steel dvd set. It really is well produced. Technically, if they are to be true tactical hawks, they should be near indestructible with a synthetic or steel haft - not a wood haft - but hey, Magua (of Last of the Mohicans fame) used a wooden haft hawk of this type quite effectively for most of the movie. This groups advantage is the reach of that haft. The Coal Creek Forge hawk is the one that sits on my bedside table. Generally, hawks in this group have more of a head heavy balance compared to the more neutral balance of hawks in groups one and two. Generally, hawks in this category cost less than hawks in categories one and two, but again, not always.
 
Well Mr Troll, I'm not in the military, and I don't claim to be, and the tomahawks I prefer would have been of the sort the originals which existed long before photography. Back then, they came in all sorts of sizes and lengths. You and I back then could have any sort and length of hawk we preferred without having to impress any internet Chairborne Commandos. I don't give a rat's furry behind what the military currently uses. I really don't. If it works for them, that's great! But if it's too small and short, I'll use it for nothing more than a practice thrower. I'm not choosing my gear for the purpose of pretending to be some wannabe Rambo nor to impress some teenage mall ninja on the internet. I choose what works best for me. Period.

NOW... you can look up on the internet some vintage 19th century photos and illustrations and see tomahawks as large as the Missouri War Axe... and tomahawks smaller than Cold Steel's Trail Hawk, and every sort of size, length, and blade shape in between. Were these 'tactical hawks'? Yes they were in their day, and they saw a LOT more hand to hand combat back when your firearm only had one shot and you actually needed something substantial to fight with when there wasn't time to reload.

Mr. Troll? Hmmm... :thumbdn:

I do care what the military and LE use... most of their weaponry has been tested and used by a wide variety of individuals, and it is typically very durable. The end result is typically user-friendy and long lasting. It is fine with me if you feel differently, we live in the US. Choose whatever equipment you like, I will also.

I longer haft gives more leverage, and more impact velocity... a shorter haft gives more agility and speed. In a fight, I will take the latter any day of the week. I would guess you don't have martial arts experience.

Bottom line: Make up your own mind, that is OK... but don't insult others you disagree with.
 
4. Able to be quickly and easily deployed when needed. The Sayoc-Winkler hawk and the Trench Hawk appear to do this well, the CQC-T and the VTAC not as well and there are others that are terrible in this area.

There is a newer sheath for the VTAC that is a lot better in this aspect...
 
So, I'm not sure about self promoting my work this way, but I figure it can't hurt.

I've been trying to perfect my tomahawk design for quite a while, and though it may still need some improvements, I think it's pretty awesome right now.

badger%20claw.jpg


I'd love to have some feedback and perhaps some ideas regarding steel choice and method for heat treatment. (( rules violation ))

:eek::eek: :D style wise thats the best looking tactical hawk I have ever seen, L O V E I T
 
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So, I'm not sure about self promoting my work this way, but I figure it can't hurt.

I've been trying to perfect my tomahawk design for quite a while, and though it may still need some improvements, I think it's pretty awesome right now.

badger%20claw.jpg


I'd love to have some feedback and perhaps some ideas regarding steel choice and method for heat treatment. (( rules violation ))

That is a grate looking design. Tho I would like to see a pointer spike. How much will the cost be and what type of handle material are you going to be offering. I'm making my own right now as I can't quit afford the rmj that I want. But if the price is right I would be in for one.
 
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Yeah I love the style. But a bit to pricey for me. Maybe one day. By the way you have some really grate designs I really like your stuff grate work.
 
DeepEnd80,

I am trying to envision holding the hawk to use the serrated area on top of the head... how do you propose that one should/could hold it???
 
Mr. Troll - what the hell was that about. I was following the thread with interest until that post. I study, own, and use hawks that span the past 300 years - spontoon to RMJs. I am also a retired 18F with 26 years served. Read the posts and learn, as I do, without posting anymore of the Mr. Troll BS.
 
Before we continue with the 'troll' BS... let's all be clear on what a 'troll' is...

Troll: A member of an internet forum who continually harangues and harasses others. Someone with nothing worthwhile to add to a certain conversation, but rather continually threadjacks or changes the subject, as well as thinks every member of the forum is talking about them and only them. Trolls often go by multiple names to circumvent getting banned.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

OK, now let's get back on topic, shall we? :thumbup:
 
I'm carry one of Justin's (Ranger Knives) Renegades. The haft is stretched out to 18".
It can be thrown, but That's not the intended use I had in mind. It's a close quarter weapon, If all else has be depleted.
Or, it can be used for breeching.
This "Hawk" is the One I choose to carry. Others can decide which tool meets their duty requirements,budget. As long as we're carry'n em & have the mind set to use em when called...

YMMV
 
That is a grate looking design. Tho I would like to see a pointer spike. How much will the cost be and what type of handle material are you going to be offering. I'm making my own right now as I can't quit afford the rmj that I want. But if the price is right I would be in for one.

What did you have in mind for the handle material?G10? Micarta? Just askin'. Moose
 
I agree with jimmo, the Renegade is another great tactical/utility/breaching hawk. I have two Renegades and both mine have a 19 inch haft. One is the basic model and the other is the presentation Renegade. I love the presentation Renegade. It has a fair sized and strongly made head and in total only weighs 680 grams (about 24 ounces). I am afraid mine will be a user and will not be kept in its presentation state. My basic Renegade weighs 767 grams (about the same weight as my Cold Steel Spike Hawk).
 
Thanks for the positive feedback! I appreciate it!

Sorry I haven't responded to your questions about my Anubis/Badger Claw design. I was out of town, and hadn't checked the forum lately.

You can use the Mohawk edge in a couple of ways: First, you can hold the hawk by the handle, with or without a lanyard to keep your hand from moving toward the sharp underside of the head. This method is good for light cuts, or removing high limbs from trees that are still standing. Pushing up under a limb to cut with the grain works very well. I found that I can walk around a tree, de-limb it up to about 9 feet, and then chop it down afterward. (for making spears and poles, this is pretty efficient)

The second way to use the Mohawk edge is to stick the spike or axe edge in a stump and use the mohawk as a fixed planing or scraping edge. (See picture)

Third, you can hold the handle with two hands (like a paddle) and shave bark off a tree, or scrape whatever you might need to scrape.

In combat, I imagine you could use the extra edge for a lot of things.

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Here are pictures to explain how to use the Mohawk edge

Here's another picture I took on a testing adventure:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...04501253_140995662594754_379591_3921522_n.jpg

(( rules violations ))
 
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Hey folks,
Nice hawks, guys ! :cool:
Just wanted to stick a pic up of one I received a little while back,
and before you ask, I haven't done anything but fondle it.
Sayoc Winkler hawk.

@ Glenn,
Man, if I could write as well as you do I'd be a happy guy, anywho...
just got your message and I wanna' offer up a big time CONGRATS,
yak at ya' soon ! :thumbup:

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Doug :)


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This Sayoc Winkler Hawk is a smaller version of the original, it’s the first one of its type made. it is a prototype, sold to me be Daniel Winkler himself. He makes de greatest fighting tomahawks in my opinion.:D
 
The designer of the K5 Eddy Killian grew up with a good friend of mine in Modesto, California. Even forgetting that i love that hawk. Funny thing is, my good friend got in trouble with Mr. Killian when they were kids for designing weapons from quinkey dinks.
 
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