the "ultralight" crowd...

[mneedham]

I'm really a day-hiker at this point, leading my scouts or my own kids, and I pack heavy because I want to be sure that I have extra snacks, water, FAK stuff for a large group. On the other hand, my friends who spend months at a time on the trail are all "ultralight" (although I've never heard them use that term) out of necessity. I remember showing one of my friends a PAL light, he hefted it and handed back to me saying that he would never carry it on the trail, it was too heavy for what it was.... I don't think you will find any serious long distance hiker who isn't of that mind set out of practicality.

 

[Don Rearic]

I remember showing one of my friends a PAL light, he hefted it and handed back to me saying that he would never carry it on the trail, it was too heavy for what it was.... I don't think you will find any serious long distance hiker who isn't of that mind set out of practicality.

I think that might be a really good key to understanding the difference between a survivalist and someone who is a hobbyist. If you think a couple little flashlights might be the only handheld light you are likely to see again for quite some time, you might find more value in it.

Early in this thread I tried to explain that I actually value a lot of the discoveries from the Ultralighters. I just carried an ALICE Pack to work last night in case I became stranded for two or three days at work and I didn't want to take my emergency foods which are lighter so I took canned goods and it was NOT pleasant at all. I know the value of their discoveries and appreciate them. I am also totally non-plussed with all of the other stuff being thrown around.

I think it was John Adams who said, "Let us dare to think, read and write." Something like that.

 

[dartanyon]

On this forum there's been many discussions about blade size, how the blade is simply too heavy (even though its still a blade) or too large/bulky ... or both. Surely this discussion can see the relationships within choosing the right blade to carry for a job and choosing another blade that will still work and will fit where its supposed to? Skilled members can totally sort out a deer with a small folding pocket knife and then turn around and do the same with a machete ... just that one of them wont fit in your pocket.
Little blades arn't that good for chopping but with the right technique they can still be used to chop, it just takes longer.
Mini survival kits are a great example of ultralight and minimalist approach to outdoors.
The SAS kit has many examples of reducing size and weight for practical reasoning.
Instead of carrying the three extra cast iron pots think of how much extra WATER you can carry.

 

[udtjim]

If for no other reason, the newer Ultra lite gear gives people options, What could be better than more options? Unless you are like me and try to buy every option.

The biggest drawback to much of the ultra lite stuff is the cost, where less means more.

 

[dartanyon]

udtjim - yep ... a lot of the gear I really want, I end up modifying something cheap or manufacturing it myself. I enjoy the research and really enjoy the manufacturing process.
Finding alternatives is a real challenge.
Invention is the mother of necessity ... or something like that.

 

[Runsalone]

why are you getting offended? Is it because you are sitting there with a can of foaming goo in one hand and a razor in the other or...because you just want to be offended?

No offense here friend...Its just the internet afterall Just weighng in on the subject is all. And no, when I hiked I grew a HUGE beard!

 

[Liam Ryan]

For example, some people really enjoy the craftsmanship and the overall feel of a brass K&M Matchsafe. I chose the aluminum model because I just don't think the extra weight and density of brass is going to protect the matches or the Suunto Compass mounted in the lid - it's just dead weight.

Brass isn't plastic, this isn't a Home Despot Carpenter Pencil issue...brass is heavy!

I just bought both.

I believe ultralighting is a sport in itself. Cutting weight is a personal achievement to strive toward, and maybe shaving a few ounces gives them the same satisfaction we get from making a friction fire.

 

[Bushman5]

I LOVE gear. I love checking out gear in the stores, online, mags, buying it, trying it out in my area in all weather conditions and giving my views on it. Heck i should be like MILSPECMONKEY dude and blog my findings and views on gear.

I love prepping for a hike, going door to door of my 3 massive handmade gear cabinets. Picking and choosing bling for the days hike.

I also like grabbing a knife and nothing else and going into the woods for kicks and giggles.

its ALL good.

 

[dartanyon]

Bushman5 - same here, with or without ... all or nothing ... bought or handmade ... its all good.

 

[Bushman5]

^ Yo! looking forward to seeing a lot of your photos and trip reports from your neck of the world! If i could, i would move to Cooper Pedy and set up home

 

[dartanyon]

I've needled (looked for opal chips) and gone back for a party at a dugout (home underground) at Coober Pedy. The opal bug sure is dangerous.
I've travelled roud Oz twice and many many smaller trips, lots of photos although since digital photography I've stuck to a 300km radius but plenty to see and do ... like the rest of the world ... getting out there is what its about. Yo!
And your neck of the woods yea ... one day.

 

[Liam Ryan]

I love prepping for a hike, going door to door of my 3 massive handmade gear cabinets. Picking and choosing bling for the days hike.



its ALL good.

I don't know about you guys but I would really love to see a pic of these cabinets with the doors flung open and the all the goodies on display.

My gear is packed away in boxes and tupperware bins all over the house.:barf:

 

[dartanyon]

My gear splattered fragments ... big stuff in a old van/shed outside, bottom two shelves of the pantry, socks and undies drawer ... wow, splattered.

 

[dartanyon]

Bushman ... I recon your cupboards are like treasure chests.

 

[cnas122]

Ultralight means leaving the full cast iron cooking set at home in favor of aluminum.

Agree with this completely

 

[cnas122]

Well, I haven't gotten into too many discussions on this forum, but have always enjoyed reading everyone else's posts. But I'll say this....and believe you me I'm not an ultralight extremist...the last serious hunt I went on....oh boy would I have loved for my pack to be about 20 lbs lighter. Maybe its my age, or the fact that I'm turning into a lazyass and not in as good a shape as I used to be in, but there were plenty of times I was sitting down on a rock after a tough stretch where I thought about what was in my pack and how I wish it wasn't so heavy. I grew up in the woods with a knife, something to light a fire, and maybe some yummy morsels. My folks wanted me to learn how to do it that way first before they started buying me crazy/insane items like "sleeping bags" and "tents". So with that mindset and rearing, my first goal is to always have everything I need in the situations I know I'll encounter and in the situations I hope I don't encounter. After that....hell....I'll use whatever works to take as much weight off that as possible.......as long as it still works for the purposes I need it to work for AND I can afford it. I have no problem with a 60 or 70 pound pack on my back....but man that pack would feel better after 10 miles if it weighed 40 pounds

As for the discussions on here...I guess one of the reasons I don't post on this thread is because I see a lot of "I'm better than you" and "These guys are dumbasses". Who cares...if you don't like it, don't read it (this goes for both sides). I think there is a difference between telling someone what you think about a situation and telling someone that they are wrong or stupid for what they think, or what they would do, in a situation. If you back someone in a corner, the only direction they have to go is forward...and that usually means going through you if you aren't willing to give way. If something doesn't work for you then don't do it...but then again, keep an open mind. Sometimes stubbornness and ignorance blinds a person to ideas, tools or strategies that are, in reality, a whole helluva lot better than what that person has been doing for years. It's like those stupid SOB's in the race car industry...why in the world would those crazy boys start using aluminum blocks instead of steel? Lighten the weight of the car???? Why??? Because it takes less energy to accomplish the same goal...getting to the finish.

Anyways, I apologize for the rant and hope I did not offend anyone....had a bit too much coffee tonight. I think I'll hop back on my traditional knife forum and talk about rainbows and unicorns with the folksy folk and about how much we all love eachother's knives

 

[dartanyon]

cnas122 - could you please tell me where this traditional knife forum is?

 

[j williams]

Well, I haven't gotten into too many discussions on this forum, but have always enjoyed reading everyone else's posts. But I'll say this....and believe you me I'm not an ultralight extremist...the last serious hunt I went on....oh boy would I have loved for my pack to be about 20 lbs lighter. Maybe its my age, or the fact that I'm turning into a lazyass and not in as good a shape as I used to be in, but there were plenty of times I was sitting down on a rock after a tough stretch where I thought about what was in my pack and how I wish it wasn't so heavy. I grew up in the woods with a knife, something to light a fire, and maybe some yummy morsels. My folks wanted me to learn how to do it that way first before they started buying me crazy/insane items like "sleeping bags" and "tents". So with that mindset and rearing, my first goal is to always have everything I need in the situations I know I'll encounter and in the situations I hope I don't encounter. After that....hell....I'll use whatever works to take as much weight off that as possible.......as long as it still works for the purposes I need it to work for AND I can afford it. I have no problem with a 60 or 70 pound pack on my back....but man that pack would feel better after 10 miles if it weighed 40 pounds

As for the discussions on here...I guess one of the reasons I don't post on this thread is because I see a lot of "I'm better than you" and "These guys are dumbasses". Who cares...if you don't like it, don't read it (this goes for both sides). I think there is a difference between telling someone what you think about a situation and telling someone that they are wrong or stupid for what they think, or what they would do, in a situation. If you back someone in a corner, the only direction they have to go is forward...and that usually means going through you if you aren't willing to give way. If something doesn't work for you then don't do it...but then again, keep an open mind. Sometimes stubbornness and ignorance blinds a person to ideas, tools or strategies that are, in reality, a whole helluva lot better than what that person has been doing for years. It's like those stupid SOB's in the race car industry...why in the world would those crazy boys start using aluminum blocks instead of steel? Lighten the weight of the car???? Why??? Because it takes less energy to accomplish the same goal...getting to the finish.

Anyways, I apologize for the rant and hope I did not offend anyone....had a bit too much coffee tonight. I think I'll hop back on my traditional knife forum and talk about rainbows and unicorns with the folksy folk and about how much we all love eachother's knives

Man thats music to my ears brother. Best post Ive read in a long time. :thumbup:

You should post more around here....

 

[Don Rearic]

I LOVE gear. I love checking out gear in the stores, online, mags, buying it, trying it out in my area in all weather conditions and giving my views on it. Heck i should be like MILSPECMONKEY dude and blog my findings and views on gear.

I love prepping for a hike, going door to door of my 3 massive handmade gear cabinets. Picking and choosing bling for the days hike.

I also like grabbing a knife and nothing else and going into the woods for kicks and giggles.

its ALL good.

What a totally incorrigible gear ho.

 

[OwenM]

Nice post, cnas. I like the idea of ultralight equipment, and appreciate that it's available, though I don't actually have much at the moment. We all age. I know my laundry list of injuries really came home a few years ago, and I haven't done more than dayhike, since. Got a lot more strength and endurance than my poor joints and skeletal structure can take advantage of. I do have problems with a 60-70lb. pack. Last time out I had problems(as in-lots of pain) from a 43lb. pack, and was about ready to tie a rope to it and drag it.
I've started buying some newer and lighter gear, and am still shopping for more that will hopefully change things for the better.

I think that might be a really good key to understanding the difference between a survivalist and someone who is a hobbyist.

Sometimes I see what I call "traditional campsite reenactment" being passed off as survivalism, and I don't see any difference between some "survivalists", and the people being criticized for wanting to see how light they can go at the expense of practicality or safety. Hobby/hobby.
Skills are great, and I'll be the last to start preaching gear dependency, but if we're really interested in surviving a bad situation, we don't prepare for that eventuality by intentionally handicapping ourselves in any way, and especially not by omitting necessary or important items, or with inferior equipment that negates the effectiveness of those skills for the sake of nostalgia.


Anyway, I'm going to go drill some holes in my travel toothbrush's plastic case, now. Heard I can drop .000009 oz. off my pack weight like that:thumbup: