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Things SOG can do to get back on top.

Discussion in 'SOG Specialty Knives' started by macgregor22, May 14, 2008.

  1. dl351

    dl351

    690
    May 5, 2006
    "Updated classics, updated classics, updated classics, updated classics, updated classics, updated classics, updated classics, updated classics, updated classics, updated classics, updated classics!
    Pretty please Chris."

    I agree with macgregor on this one. However, I don't agree so much with the following:

    "My impression is SOG is a market follower rather then a market leader. I don't see much innovation in knife models."

    While SOG my not have the most innovations compared to others, I think the folders with the Arc lock are quite innovative. I have a Night Vision (a Vision with G10 handles, for those who may not know), and compared to my other nice folders, a Benchmade Pinnacle and two Emerson Ravens, I like the Night Vision the most. It is the smoothest opening and most solid locking folder that I own. Period. Sure, SOG may not use the absolute latest and greatest miracle steel, but the ATS-34 of the Night Vision has held an edge just fine, and I'm sure the new VG10 blades are better!

    As far as change, it's been said a lot, but I'd love to see a tool steel fixed blade with more of a utility shape as opposed to the traditional SOG fighter shape. Full exposed tangs and micarta handles would be nice too. The Classic Tomcat would be nice to see again. If those were still made, I'd snatch one up, but for the premium they demand on the secondary market now, I can't afford one.
     
  2. macgregor22

    macgregor22

    Sep 20, 2007
    20cv teamleader comes close.
    http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=SOGTL01
    Can always put some micarta slabs on.
     
  3. dl351

    dl351

    690
    May 5, 2006
    Don't tempt me macgregor! I've already thought of that! I have to admit, I do like the way the teamleader looks. It looks to be a good small/medium camp/utility knife. You know, with SOG's tradition of a "2" after a knife name being the designation for the bigger knives, they could make a slightly thicker, longer, and wider teamleader out of some sort of tool steel and I would be pretty dang excited! Oh, I just realized that this Duratech 20cv CPM steel is pretty top notch as far as technological advancements in knife steels goes. It's just a bit pricey for me so I would just get the 440c version if I got one.
     
  4. Tim-Gabz

    Tim-Gabz

    Nov 24, 2003
    I have been looking into a folder version of the Pentagon. By using the Balisong structure one can get both the original blade and handle profiles to work. With a flat pommel

    How about it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2008
  5. Chillax

    Chillax

    27
    Sep 25, 2008
    Before I start my rant. I own 1 SOG it is the old jet edge with carbon fiber handle and ats 34 steel. No questions. no doubt a good knife. NOW is probably going to be my ONLY SOG!

    I am a sales manager at a High end cutlery store and I review this and share what I see here with my customers. To call me out is to call out my entire staff and all the customers I get feed back from.

    1st This is the biggest problem with SOG right now!

    2nd this is the second biggest problem, again it reflects what I said about goin to cheaper materials craftsmanship and higher prices.
    BUT, Since I was called a liar I will add to my previous 2 cents and raise you 8
    you are goin to get a whole dime of my attention

    dave mentioned the steels and price, Lets everybody think for a second and notice EVERY good company stamps the steel quality on the blade because they are proud of the materials they are using:confused:
    SOG? Where have all the steel stamps gone?????? This makes people think they are hideing something, or can they not keep up with the ever changing array of materials and factories and COUNTRIES they are getting their products from. Lets not put anything on the blade cause we don't even know what it is!?

    right on the button. exactly. wow. I'm not the only one. BUT they haven't broken contract exactly, folders are still coming out of Japan????



    NOW, before we strap on the gloves. I will be more specific. The Daggert 1, The Daggert2, and the Gov Tac. When they were released about 5-6 yrs ago we ordered the tini coated ones of all three items at SHOT. Well when our firsty order arrived all three had a beautiful shiny hard tini coating, AND they were made in JAPAN. I know because I WAS goin to buy one. (I don't buy anything from Taiwan I am part Japanese it's kind of a thing I have) and I have a few customers that remember this and Atleast 1 distributor of mine does as well. The shipment we recieved for christmas was different, the luster was gone the finish on the blades were no longer shiny they were matt finish tini, and made in Taiwan. Within the following couple of years we DID recieve Daggert 2's made in China. by this time sales had dropped enough we discontinued the daggert1 (so I can't make mention on that). Now after the China Stamp and the prices raising for the third time we cut our orders of the other 2 (daggert2 and gov tac) to only 4 of each a year and now we have completely discontiued them.

    YES they are NOW made in Taiwan again (commend you for this). but the damage was already made as far as our customers go that is why the remaining pieces we've had in our store for over a year now and it is on clearance.

    The FUSION line is only a few years old. Before that there was plenty of items made in China from SOG. You don't need to look any further than the MINI TOPO which we have had 2 in our store for over a year and a half now that I can't even sell half off! They no longer have any markings of origin at all?:confused:
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2008
  6. karesz68

    karesz68

    101
    Apr 22, 2008
    Because nobody crucifise me about favorising japanese Sog VS taiwanese!
    Only one more think to add:(witout commercialising)I check regulary Ebay for SOG knives,and I recomend to each of every person to do the same.You will be surprised the selling price for a nib trident,or tigershark,or recon,or D.dagger.
    After all ,tell me something about no demands on the market for those knives!
     
  7. Culpeper

    Culpeper Banned BANNED

    Jul 1, 2007
    I've purchased some knives and firearms manufactured in Eastern Europe. Very well made and inexpensive. Can SOG move their operations over there instead?
     
  8. karesz68

    karesz68

    101
    Apr 22, 2008
    Would be the same reason I guess,like with Taiwan!In the entire easten europe there is only one brand shines Kizlyar,but I would not say that,are they cheap.Europe suffering from high tax.In the other countries the knife making is based on small workshops.Like in Hungary we have some talented craftman,but t be ahey are kind of new in this business,the world ,but knife nuts,does not know so much about them.So I dont think American people would be excited about Eastern europien knives!
    For me the recepie is simple!
    Watch from switzerland,Parfum from France,Car from Germany,Knife from Japan or USA
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2008
  9. noviomagus

    noviomagus

    407
    Dec 25, 2007
    don't forget the Italian shoes :p
     
  10. karesz68

    karesz68

    101
    Apr 22, 2008
    Sorry !You right
     
  11. GIRLYmann

    GIRLYmann

    Nov 7, 2005
    Wow!
    This thread has certainly grown...
    The thing is, SOG Knives should have been more competitively priced for the majority of it's products have blades made from mediocre steel.
    The idea of having outsourced production is to cut cost, and this cost savings should have been passed on to the consumer.
    Sure I understand that the whole idea about business is to achieve sales targets and financial goals; but one thing is for certain - that was yesterday, today - everyone is faced with the fall out of having "OEM in China", the domino effect which has thrown just about everthing out of balance in terms of product marketability and sales positioning.
    A likely approach towards building a larger consumer market would be to work towards having a sort of Ying 'n Yang product balance, ie of good design and great value for money.
    Seems to me small and medium sized firms have no choice but to market their products as exclusive. As there are far too many lower end off shore OEMed products already. And this may not be the best time for America domestically, newer markets have to be identified, and the most likely move is to Trojan Horse expensive US made products to mainland China itself.
     
  12. Chris@SOG

    [email protected] Moderator Moderator

    903
    Oct 21, 2003
    Thanks to everyone for your comments and we do appreciate your feedback and respect your opinions. These have all been shared in the office and I don't know when or if anything will change but we do take all comments seriously.

    Chillax
    Coming from a High-end Cutlery store I do appreciate your comments and add a little more weight to them, as you are on the front lines selling cutlry everyday.

    I have never called you or anyone at your store a liar. I was merely correcting a mistake. I have been with SOG for 6 years and that includes being here during the launch of the Daggert 1, Daggert 2 and Gov-Tac, which was in 2005.

    One again, I am not calling you or anyone you have mentioned a liar but I do have to correct a mistaken claim made above. The Daggert/Gov-Tac knives have always been made in Taiwan. They have never been made anywhere else, not Japan or China only Taiwan.

    Yes, the Fusion is only a few years old and prior to the launch of the Fusion the only product that was made in China was the micron, as it has always been and marked that way. The micron was around for one year before Fusion and was then transitioned to be a part of the Fusion when we started that line.

    The Mini Topo was not made in China, its entire production was in Taiwan.

    If you look at our product line over the past 6 years or so we have made it a point to try and indicate that a changed product is not the same. Anytime we have moved production from one country to another of an existing product we changed the name by either adding some sort of designation like 2.0 or Elite to the name. See the fixed blade Trident vs. Trident 2.0 for example. The original Trident was made in Japan with AUS6 steel. We moved production to Taiwan and upgraded the steel to AUS8 and it is not called the Trident 2.0. Yes, they look almost identical but they are marked differently and have been that was since the change over. If you were to look at costs of the two knives today, the original Trident would run somewhere in the neighborhood of $350-$400 and the Trident 2.0 is $210. Quite a savings for two knives that are 95% identical. Same thing goes for the Bowie vs Bowie 2.0 and Tigershark vs Tigeshark 2.0.

    Now I am not trying to start a war or "strap on the gloves". I just want to get the correct information out there. I understand that some people may not be happy with some of the choices made here. That is perfectly with in their rights and I am not disputing any opinions. I am merely correcting something stated was stated as fact.

    Thanks for your time and opinions.
     
  13. johnu2

    johnu2

    942
    Jun 5, 2007
    Chillax, are you sure you're not confusing the Daggert (Taiwan) with the Desert Dagger (Japan) or Fixation Dagger (China)?
     
  14. tholiver

    tholiver

    Feb 22, 2003
    I agree i really don't like the cutouts.
    And i love my first gen Tomcat!
    Of all the folders i own it has the most solid lockup.
    Bring that back but with some kind of button or something on the blade for one handed opening.
    I have a "one-armed-bandit" on my Tomcat and it works great.
    I've used it more in the 6 months since i installed the button than i did in the previous 5 years.
    I'm not crazy about the nail nick opening and the Tomcat blade gets thinner at the top/spine because of the false edge. Because of that i I can't pinch the top of the blade and flick it open like i can with my Buck 110.

    Actually while i'm daydreaming what i'd really love would be a new knife on the old first gen SOG Tomcat frame. More of a droppoint blade with a square-spined flat grind (no false edge, serrations or choil), maybe a spyderco-ish hole or if thats not possible a button for one-handed opening.
    And while the assisted opening stuff is neat i prefer the mechanical simplicity of a lockback or liner/frame-lock.

    Didn't Sog have a carbon steel first Gen Tomcat back in the day as well?
    (edit- ooops i'm thinking of the Team leader and that was bigger)

    Hmmm how about the above dream knife with blued finish and blade in 01 or 1095?
    :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2008
  15. GIRLYmann

    GIRLYmann

    Nov 7, 2005
    "tholiver"
    Cool idea!
    An assisted opening 1st generation Tomcat (but i would rather with different scales please. For example, G-10 even linen micarta has got to be classier than kraton).
    Yes, a serialized blued blade as a collectors edition would do just fine...
     
  16. Chillax

    Chillax

    27
    Sep 25, 2008

    NO! exactly what I posted Same SKU/ product number 3 DIFFERENT markings.

    Maybe they were always made in Taiwan. BUT that is not what they were marked as!

    I guess I'm wrong, I guess the customers that bought them were wrong and the employees from one of the LARGEST wholesale knife distributers are all WRONG.
     
  17. Angus McGunnigl

    Angus McGunnigl

    May 22, 2002
    I really like all of the SOG products I've purchased.
    The multi-tools are excellent and the knives I have are great also.

    Maybe the prices could be a little lower, but I've had great customer service the 2 times I've needed it(both from MY ABUSE of a knife) that the extra $ is worth it.

    The only product I've purchased that I found fault(if you could all it that) with wasn't even the knife. I really don't like the X-42 Feild knife sheath. It works fine, but I'll end up getting a custom leather one made soon.

    I personally don't care a whole lot where they are made becuase SOG has a well earned reputaion of taking care of the customer.
     
  18. snakedad

    snakedad

    56
    Sep 6, 2008
    When Spencer Fraizer and Robbie Roberson posed for a pic w/ me at SMKW

    and my favorite knife company didnt even send a rep 2 rep weekend at SMKW....twice..that did it for me.

    Lets just say itll be a COLD day in STEEL before I spend that kinda cash again w/anybody but SOG

    CUSTOMER SERVICE and appreciation is everything. If it werent for people like Wendy at SMKW CS woulda lost alot of cash

    Now barring my stupidity--Serrations on every damn knife blade out there is gettin old...leave it to the masters..Spyderco...or carrry a saw or a Seal Revolver. I agree w/the cutout stuff and simpler lines sells every time.

    1 question--when are companies gonna quit painting thier trademark on stuff and engrave it..be proud of what u sell...

    sog too
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2008
  19. Robbie Roberson

    Robbie Roberson

    Dec 27, 2003
    Snakedad, it was our pleasure. :D

    Wendy is a fine person as are many others at Smoky mtn. knifeworks I think.

    Please email me sometime.

    Robbie Roberson.
     
  20. gadgetgeek

    gadgetgeek

    May 19, 2007
    I'm in agreement with most of whats been said so far, I own a trident tigerstripe folder (edc) mini-topo (edc) pentagon elite2 and a seal team elite. and yeah, I like them all, mostly. I'm getting rid of the seal because it is just too big for what I need, but it has done everything I've asked of it. I like the pentagon, and will probably grab a spec elite as I like the system, not sure which size I'll get. and I carry my mini-topo because its "cute" non-threatening, I like the action and the semi-locking idea is cool. I just wish that it had better fit and finish. I've got my next fixed blade picked out, and its not a SOG blade, but that's because its not a SOG market. my next multi will be a SOG just so I can swap out for the tools I use, as nobody makes the one I want.
    in general, my tastes are not the same as they were when I bought the knives I have. It's not SOGs fault that I have changed my opinions, and so I'll just change my knives, and I'll probaly stick with SOG for my folders. unless I find something that does what I want better and cheaper.
    As my father told me, Never deny a working man his wage. I will pay what a product is worth, and I want good knives.
     

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