This Ain't a Box of Grandma's Cookies!

Should the shipper pay for lost uninsured Busse goodies?

  • Yes shipper is responsible and should pay

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No the receiver is $H!T OUTA LUCK

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
That doesn't matter to me because if I buy or trade someone for a Busse and it doesn't get here and it's not insured etc and they tell me that's tough they are going to be in a world of you know what...... :mad::grumpy:

I will be at their house and I will have either my money, my knife back or will will take it out of their flesh..... :grumpy::mad:

I like your style! I feel the same way. It is funny how people like us who have a deep sense of honor and to do what is right also have that I'll kick your A$$ attitude! :) I have very little faith in the law for all of you law minded people. Get real with your laws that are almost useless since they are written by some of the biggest law breakers and immoral, dishonorable people that exist.
 
I really can't believe that now over 30% of the voters here believe that the receiver should be SOL... and I really wish that those who voted this way could be recognized.

If you voted for option two, "No the receiver is $H!T OUTA LUCK", Please post here that you voted this way. I need to update my list of folks that I shouldn't be buying from, selling to, or trading with...

FRAK the law.
IT IS a matter of HONOR & TRUST. That's ALL we have here amongst ourselves... If you don't want to be liable or to have your reputation damaged, then you have the obligation to either insure the package on your own, or at the VERY LEAST to notify the Buyer that insurance will be an additional fee, and do they want it insured. It's plain & simple. All of you without a law degree... Stop looking for loopholes. All of you who don't wish to to conduct business with a decent set of ethics... Stop buying, selling & trading knives here on BladeForums... Seriously.

Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful ~Udana-Varga 5,1

DO NOT SHIP KNIVES IN WAYS THAT YOU YOURSELF WOULD FIND TO BE UNAPPRECIATED!! ~Jaxx
 
Last edited:
For me I always ship insured with delivery confirmation regardless! I've never had a problem but I feel like it helps if there was one!
 
I really can't believe that now over 30% of the voters here believe that the receiver should be SOL... and I really wish that those who voted this way could be recognized.

If you voted for option two, "No the receiver is $H!T OUTA LUCK", Please post here that you voted this way. I need to update my list of folks that I shouldn't be buying from, selling to, or trading with...

FRAK the law.
IT IS a matter of HONOR & TRUST. That's ALL we have here amongst ourselves... If you don't want to be liable or to have your reputation damaged, then you have the obligation to either insure the package on your own, or at the VERY LEAST to notify the Buyer that insurance will be an additional fee, and do they want it insured. It's plain & simple. All of you without a law degree... Stop looking for loopholes. All of you who don't wish to to conduct business with a decent set of ethics... Stop buying, selling & trading knives here on BladeForums... Seriously.

Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful ~Udana-Varga 5,1

DO NOT SHIP KNIVES IN WAYS THAT YOU YOURSELF WOULD FIND TO BE UNAPPRECIATED!! ~Jaxx

Said perfectly brother! Thanks again Alex. I wish I would have made this a public poll. I missed setting it up that way as this was the first poll I set up. I will always insist on Registered Mail for Busse's to be shipped to me from now on and I will pay the extra. This is a lesson for me and I hope everyone here learns from my deal gone terrible so no one has to have this happen to them.
 
I really can't believe that now over 30% of the voters here believe that the receiver should be SOL... and I really wish that those who voted this way could be recognized.

If you voted for option two, "No the receiver is $H!T OUTA LUCK", Please post here that you voted this way. I need to update my list of folks that I shouldn't be buying from, selling to, or trading with...

FRAK the law.
IT IS a matter of HONOR & TRUST. That's ALL we have here amongst ourselves... If you don't want to be liable or to have your reputation damaged, then you have the obligation to either insure the package on your own, or at the VERY LEAST to notify the Buyer that insurance will be an additional fee, and do they want it insured. It's plain & simple. All of you without a law degree... Stop looking for loopholes. All of you who don't wish to to conduct business with a decent set of ethics... Stop buying, selling & trading knives here on BladeForums... Seriously.

Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful ~Udana-Varga 5,1

DO NOT SHIP KNIVES IN WAYS THAT YOU YOURSELF WOULD FIND TO BE UNAPPRECIATED!! ~Jaxx

RIGHT ON BROTHER!!! +100 :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
I agree with everything Jaxx stated above however I think anyone would have to be considered naive to not know better then to ask about insurance, especially in these times. I deal more with custom rifles than fine cutlery but one thing remains the same every time I purchase. I specifically ask if the package will be insured for the total amount. You cannot just assume and then blame the other party when something goes wrong.
 
Goodness - you guys are all suffering from severe cases of the straw man fallacy. You attack me because you think I have an emotional opinion contrary to your own when in fact, I haven't given one and am simply giving my interpretation of the law...

I didn't vote in the poll because I'm not assessing this from a personal or emotional standpoint, just a legal one. All you people who are throwing a fit over my responses don't seem to be getting that. Why a legal standpoint? Because if the other party decides to feel honorable - or at the very least, concerned for his reputation - then the OP will probably get what he wants and this entire thread would prove to be pointless. So then that leaves the question of: "Well - what if the other party thinks he doesn't owe you anything?" Again, a possible idea that he might carry and not one that I personally hold (so stop getting your panties into their respective bunches, people!)

TEACHING TIME!:
Well in that proposed situation children, we would have something called "a dispute" ;) Now - when two people have opposing viewpoints that can't be swayed or compromised, force tends to come into play. The force can be lawful, i.e. a verdict handed down by an authoritative figure - or unlawful, i.e. what *edit* this guy seems to see as the best course of action:

I will be at their house and I will have either my money, my knife back or will will take it out of their flesh..... :grumpy::mad:

The funny thing about unlawful action to solve a dispute is that it tends to put you in a worse off situation than where you started - A worse situation that will, ironically, be solved through legal action ;)
 
Last edited:
There are so many hogs among us who's intellect and education dwarf anything I could ever hope to aspire to, and quite a few of them are posting in this thread.

I don't know if talking down to them and taking on a condescending tone is really going to help matters in any way.
 
There are so many hogs among us who's intellect and education dwarf anything I could ever hope to aspire to, and quite a few of them are posting in this thread.

I don't know if talking down to them and taking on a condescending tone is really going to help matters in any way.

Don't under estimate your own intellect or wisdom, my friend. That is some wise advice.:thumbup:
 

DO NOT SHIP KNIVES IN WAYS THAT YOU YOURSELF WOULD FIND TO BE UNAPPRECIATED!! ~Jaxx

I very much agree with the "golden rule" but I take issue with your interpretation as it presents a contradiction. One person's idea of an perfectly suitable shipping method might infuriate another.

Such could be the case in this thread's scenario... suppose that the other man lives in an area where such theft is unheard of - that person might see a shipment with tracking and no insurance to be perfectly acceptable for his situation. Now suppose this man takes your advice - he would ship it with this method (perfectly appreciated by him) to someone who lives in an area where mail theft on a frequent basis.... what then?

If anything should be the moral here, it is that NEEDS AND EXPECTATIONS VARY - THEREFORE, COMMUNICATION IS VITAL! Were the deal conducted with this in mind first and foremost, this thread probably would not even be here!

There are so many hogs among us who's intellect and education dwarf anything I could ever hope to aspire to, and quite a few of them are posting in this thread.

I don't know if talking down to them and taking on a condescending tone is really going to help matters in any way.

My condescending tone was in reply to those who seem incapable of assessing the situation in a logical and adult-like manner. Everyone else probably didn't need it spelled out like that... admittedly, I probably should not have said "the majority of you" as looking back on the posts, only one person really fits this description. Quite sorry for going overboard in my defensive state.
 
Last edited:
I very much agree with the "golden rule" but I take issue with your interpretation as it presents a contradiction. One person's idea of an perfectly suitable shipping method might infuriate another.

Such could be the case in this thread's scenario... suppose that the other man lives in an area where such theft is unheard of - that person might see a shipment with tracking and no insurance to be perfectly acceptable for his situation. Now suppose this man takes your advice - he would ship it with this method (perfectly appreciated by him) to someone who lives in an area where mail theft on a frequent basis.... what then?

If anything should be the moral here, it is that NEEDS AND EXPECTATIONS VARY - THEREFORE COMMUNICATION IS VITAL! Were the deal conducted with this in mind first and foremost, this thread probably would not even be here



My condescending tone was in reply to those who seem incapable of accessing the situation in a logical and adult-like manner. Everyone else probably didn't need it spelled out like that...

You make some very valid points and I agree with some of them to an extent. The one flaw I see with your argument in this thread is you comment about not knowing the neighborhood somebody lives in. That, to me, is only a small factor in buying insurance. The one, I repeat, one instance where I had an issue with the USPS had nothing to do with it being stolen from my home or mailbox. I had a package delivered to my PO Box. The USPS delivered it to the wrong PO Box and it was lost for a while. I did eventually get it back and all was well. A lesson for both myself and the seller. My point being, packages can also get lost or damaged in transit or simply delivered to the wrong place. While making your argument don't forget those critical points.

Also, this topic has been covered a number of times here and the consensus from the experts is: drum roll please . . . GET INSURANCE!
 
This is my understanding - If you ship something and it is never recieved, it is as if you never sent anything.

If you biought a knife online from a dealer and it never showed up at your house would you expecct them to bill you for it?

Whatever excuse you come up with "No the receiver is $H!T OUTA LUCK" - cannot be justified

I'm with Jaxx Please identify your selves.
 
Last edited:
I always want tracking numbers etc and expect it to be covered. ;)

Ask Dan how I ship stuff out and pack it. :D :eek: :thumbup:

You can even ask the Busse Shop how I ship stuff out. :D

Although some of you are posting that the seller has the responsibility and the buyer shouldnt be out of luck, we must ask ourselves the difference between if one should be responsible, and which one, as Killa concept said, is the legally enforceable. I think the two parties debating here are coming from different points of view.

Although it is deplorable for the buyer to the out of luck, legally, per the lawyer that posted, the buyer is out of luck if the seller so chooses to not give a f#$% about the deal.

Does that seem fair or right or anything of the such? no it doesnt.

So it will just be up to the views of the seller and what he chooses to do, per the law...
 
Now I have to add to my sig line
"Insurance and Delivery Confirmation on all Trades, Purchases and Sales required."

So that some JACKASS when I make a deal and forget to be explicite does not RIP ME OFF and say "No the receiver is $H!T OUTA LUCK".

Unbelievable "grown men" ridiculous!!!!!!
 
The funny thing about unlawful action to solve a dispute is that it tends to put you in a worse off situation than where you started - A worse situation that will, ironically, be solved through legal action ;)



Perhaps, but then perhaps not as most of the time having the tar kicked out of them and maybe even the fear of God put into them makes for a lasting impression. ;)

But then things usually don't come to that or need to go that far. ;)

Things like eating solid food and walking without a limp for the rest of their lives are important to most people. :D
 
Last edited:
Perhaps, but then perhaps not as most of the time having the tar kicked out of them and maybe even the fear of God put into them makes for a lasting impression. ;)

But then things usually don't come to that or need to go that far. ;)

Things like eating solid food and walking without a limp for the rest of their lives are important to most people. :D


There are just soooo many things wrong with your post that I don't even know where to begin...
Violence does not change a man's resolve if he is authentically resolute in his beliefs?
Wrath is the gravest of all sins?
Fear of God or Fear of you? Do you consider yourself to be God?
You did not even address the issue of legal recourse?
Walking with a limp might be your fate should the assault victim choose to send you to Prison?


Sorry sir - but I'm not even going to bother

Although some of you are posting that the seller has the responsibility and the buyer shouldnt be out of luck, we must ask ourselves the difference between if one should be responsible, and which one, as Killa concept said, is the legally enforceable. I think the two parties debating here are coming from different points of view.

Although it is deplorable for the buyer to the out of luck, legally, per the lawyer that posted, the buyer is out of luck if the seller so chooses to not give a f#$% about the deal.

Does that seem fair or right or anything of the such? no it doesnt.

So it will just be up to the views of the seller and what he chooses to do, per the law...

Exactly - hence my comment about the straw man fallacy. When you put words into someone's mouth and attack them for it, you're not actually making a valid argument. My discussion has not been about the ethics of the situation, it has been about law... the reason being that our ethical stances mean nothing should the seller decide he does not feel liable.


You make some very valid points and I agree with some of them to an extent. The one flaw I see with your argument in this thread is you comment about not knowing the neighborhood somebody lives in. That, to me, is only a small factor in buying insurance. The one, I repeat, one instance where I had an issue with the USPS had nothing to do with it being stolen from my home or mailbox. I had a package delivered to my PO Box. The USPS delivered it to the wrong PO Box and it was lost for a while. I did eventually get it back and all was well. A lesson for both myself and the seller. My point being, packages can also get lost or damaged in transit or simply delivered to the wrong place. While making your argument don't forget those critical points.

Also, this topic has been covered a number of times here and the consensus from the experts is: drum roll please . . . GET INSURANCE!

Ah - a complete oversight on my part and indeed something I failed to include in my argument. However, I do believe that my main point still very much stands. Communication is vital and what the "experts" have concluded is ultimately nothing past an opinion. I'm sure one could even pin the expectation of insurance being mandatory as the cause of this situation...

As much as everyone wants their feelings on ethics and integrity to count in this scenario, it really does not translate over to legal liability. I see no reason to leave anything as an assumption (let alone an expectation) when a large sum of money or property is on the line - simply because, should it boil down to a case, an assumption or expectation does not hold water in court.

Regardless of whether the two members work out the situation or if it ends up as a legal dispute, it will be no thanks to us and the moral is still going to be COMMUNICATION IS VITAL!
 
Last edited:
my condescending tone was in reply to those who seem incapable of accessing the situation in a logical and adult-like manner. Everyone else probably didn't need it spelled out like that... Admittedly, i probably should not have said "the majority of you" as looking back on the posts, only one person really fits this description. Quite sorry for going overboard in my defensive state.

who?..............
 
I very much agree with the "golden rule" but I take issue with your interpretation as it presents a contradiction. One person's idea of an perfectly suitable shipping method might infuriate another.

Such could be the case in this thread's scenario... suppose that the other man lives in an area where such theft is unheard of - that person might see a shipment with tracking and no insurance to be perfectly acceptable for his situation. Now suppose this man takes your advice - he would ship it with this method (perfectly appreciated by him) to someone who lives in an area where mail theft on a frequent basis.... what then?

If anything should be the moral here, it is that NEEDS AND EXPECTATIONS VARY - THEREFORE, COMMUNICATION IS VITAL! Were the deal conducted with this in mind first and foremost, this thread probably would not even be here!



My condescending tone was in reply to those who seem incapable of assessing the situation in a logical and adult-like manner. Everyone else probably didn't need it spelled out like that... admittedly, I probably should not have said "the majority of you" as looking back on the posts, only one person really fits this description. Quite sorry for going overboard in my defensive state.

Look, man, I don't have all night to think up something that cannot be contracted by someone. The issue is TRUST & HONOR. Do the right thing, and insure any package over an amount you don't wish to reimburse if the goods don't make it to the destination. This not directed at you, but at everyone.

IF "that person's" package disappeared with no insurance or chance for recovery, I would imagine that "that person" would not be appreciative...know what i mean? Therefore, why take a chance and ship without. Oh...and where, exactly, would be somewhere where such theft is unheard of? I wanna move there! :D

BTW, I agree wholeheartedly with the "communication is vital" part...absofreakin'lutely! :thumbup:
 
Ah - a complete oversight on my part and indeed something I failed to include in my argument. However, I do believe that my main point still very much stands. Communication is vital and what the "experts" have concluded is ultimately nothing past an opinion. I'm sure one could even pin the expectation of insurance being mandatory as the cause of this situation...

As much as everyone wants their feelings on ethics and integrity to count in this scenario, it really does not translate over to legal liability. I see no reason to leave anything as an assumption (let alone an expectation) when a large sum of money or property is on the line - simply because, should it boil down to a case, an assumption or expectation does not hold water in court.

Regardless of whether the two members work out the situation or if it ends up as a legal dispute, it will be no thanks to us and the moral is still going to be COMMUNICATION IS VITAL!


And that was the lesson I learned in my incident with the lost package. It's like my grandfather used to say, "to assume makes an a$$ out of u and me."

In my line of work as with many it is a continuing process of CYA (cover your a$$ for those who don't know). To make any assumption will result in ones demise. In that respect I agree completely. However, legal arguments can be made in both instances.

I think the intended purpose of this poll is not to seek legal counsel but to get moral advice from peers based on the moral practices of those who participate on this forum. As has happened in the past the seller, once made aware of the situation, will more than likely step up and "make it right" so to speak. In fact, he may be absolutely shocked to see this thread reach 4 pages. If he doesn't, as is reflected in the poll, he will probably not get much business from too many people here. :)

.
 
Back
Top