Too much worry about steel types?

SBaker34 said:
Just a fyi, only among knife collectors is there the mentality that all knives are meant for nothing but light duty slicing.
Click to expand...

Yep, guarantee that my LE Benchmade 950-1201 at 64HRC will still cut after digging through roots, AUS8 would be a butter knife and probably be chipped out with the same geometry.

Good steel with good HT and good geometry is best, this isn't something that can be seen from one side.
 
KnivesShipFree said:
So in my personal experience, and in practical application, then, I find there are differences among steels. Sometimes that matters to me -- a lot -- and at other times, not so much. ;)

...

Tom @ KnivesShipFree
Click to expand...
Yes, I also experienced differences in the blades regarding edge stability.

But I must confess that I can not always determine for sure if these differences are due to the steel composition or due to heat treatment, edge geometry or my sharpening skills.

And even if the differences would be only due to steel composition, it would not change my point: the differences I can see are so small that it does not have a large impact in MY practical every day uses.

Always talking about QUALITY knife steels. Not cheap mystery tin.
 
Last edited:
Ultimately I feel we need to stop emphasizing one single point above all others and examine knives and other cutting tools on a case-by-case holistic basis, taking all factors of design, specification, execution, and task-appropriateness into consideration as a total packaged system. If there's truly a single aspect to narrow our collective focus on it's context. A chef's knife is awful at felling trees. An axe is awful at slicing carrots. But, providing they aren't horribly flawed in some way, they're ideally suited to the tasks for which they were actually intended. Often when assessing a design, before I even look it over closely, I look at what the manufacturer has to say about what they made it for. Then I look at the tool and see if the features I see actually appear to be optimized for the purpose described. Then I look at the features again, ignoring what the manufacturer says it's intended for, and let the features tell me how the tool actually "wants" to be used to see if that describes other optimum applications.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Ultimately I feel we need to stop emphasizing one single point above all others and examine knives and other cutting tools on a case-by-case holistic basis, taking all factors of design, specification, execution, and task-appropriateness into consideration as a total packaged system. If there's truly a single aspect to narrow our collective focus on it's context. A chef's knife is awful at felling trees. An axe is awful at slicing carrots. But, providing they aren't horribly flawed in some way, they're ideally suited to the tasks for which they were actually intended. Often when assessing a design, before I even look it over closely, I look at what the manufacturer has to say about what they made it for. Then I look at the tool and see if the features I see actually appear to be optimized for the purpose described. Then I look at the features again, ignoring what the manufacturer says it's intended for, and let the features tell me how the tool actually "wants" to be used to see if that describes other optimum applications.
Click to expand...
Very good post!
 
Skimo said:
Yep, guarantee that my LE Benchmade 950-1201 at 64HRC will still cut after digging through roots, AUS8 would be a butter knife and probably be chipped out with the same geometry.

Good steel with good HT and good geometry is best, this isn't something that can be seen from one side.
Click to expand...


a little exaggerated perhaps, but still, I myself test my knives from time to time. Totally in a non controlled way I must admit, but the one time I observed a clear as day difference in performance, is when I compared a buck vantage select with a byrd g10 caracara2.

I just made shaving with a piece of softwood lumber with both knives freshly sharpened to an about equally keen edge. Now clear as day, the 420HC vantage lost it's edge in the very first cuts, while the 8cr on the byrd kept it well... I understand the edge geometry is key here and the Rhc is apparently a few points higher with spyderco's 8cr vs buck's 420hc, so it would be a mistake to blame the steels themselves.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
A chef's knife is awful at felling trees.
Click to expand...


You know I gotta do it now...

I'm just about done resharpening the knife I used in the "are today's knives too thick" thread. I bet it'd do better at it than a lot of the stupid thick knives out there :)
 
bodog said:
You know I gotta do it now...

I'm just about done resharpening the knife I used in the "are today's knives too thick" thread. I bet it'd do better at it than a lot of the stupid thick knives out there :)
Click to expand...

Part of the reason why it's awful at it is because of the low mass of the blade and the proximity of the balance point to the hand. You could cross-grain baton one to get the job done, but you'd have to do all the work using connected cuts rather than popping a chip like you can with an axe. Of course, just because a task can be done with a knife doesn't mean that it's actually the best hand tool for the job. :)
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Part of the reason why it's awful at it is because of the low mass of the blade and the proximity of the balance point to the hand. You could cross-grain baton one to get the job done, but you'd have to do all the work using connected cuts rather than popping a chip like you can with an axe. Of course, just because a task can be done with a knife doesn't mean that it's actually the best hand tool for the job. :)
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

I also think people are scared of the wrong stuff. They're worried about their knives losing value. They're worried if their knife is too thin. Much more manly men than any of us had to do all kinds of stuff with steel much worse than we have now. To a certain point I agree with the OP but it's hard to admit it. I can probably do most of what I do with any steel, but there are some that really do perform better in specific uses. If all you do is hang out cutting some random food, cutting some envelopes and boxes, and cutting the occasional branch just to do it, then yeah, any steel will do alright. But sometimes you need a steel that can do one thing exceptionally well and sometimes you need a steel that do several things very well. But you have to actually use them to see any difference.
 
Too much worry about what other people are worrying about?

Use what steel you want and don't judge people for the steel they want to use.

"you know, all we really need is X steel".
 

Steel is the heart of the blade. The search for higher-performance
steels has to a number of wonderful materials in recent years. Steel
by itself isn't the sole determiner of knife performance, of course.
Heat treatment, blade geometry, handle geometry and materials all
effect how a knife performs for a particular job. However, those
other qualities can be difficult to measure. You can't tell by
looking at it how well a blade has been heat-treated, and you can only
make educated guesses on how well the blade and handle geometry will
work. With steel, however, you can get a full listing of its alloying
elements, something measureable and somehow satisfying.

As a result, it's easy to fall into the trap of putting too much
emphasis on the steel itself. A knife is more than steel, and it's
important not to forget that. In addition, many modern steels perform
so well, that knife decisions can often be made based on other factors
than marginal increases in steel performance.

The question of "what's the best steel" or "rank the following steels
in order from best to worst" often comes up. The resulting replies
can never be totally accurate, because depending on the jobs the knife
will be used for, the blade geometry, and the quality of the heat
treat, what is "best" and what is "worst" can be very fluid. If you
want to make an educated decision about steels, try to learn the
basics of steel properties, and go from there."
-Joe Talmadge "Steel FAQ" -2005
 
My steel? You don't even want to know about my steel. It has more protons packed per angstrom than any other steel (including Rostafrei). My steel? My steel has carbides the size of a bull's balls, chromium oozing from every interstitial crevice, tungsten-tipped and inox infused. Harder than Cap'n Crunch, more wear-resistant than last year's skinny jeans. Yakuza approved and Triad tried-n-true.

My steel? You don't even want to know about my steel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top