"TyFrameLock" a dishonorable seller... Caveat Emptor

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TyFrameLock said:
Rob,

Why do you only see and focus on that one rule.

Your attitude shows me that you are very narrow minded. You do not see the big picture.

I have laid claim to my misfortunes. You do not have to worry about that.

You do realize that your case would never hold to in court.

You purchased a used and modified knife.

There was plenty of proof about the condition and positions of the knife.

There is no warranty.

There is no refund required.

Either party can back out before money/item exchange.

You need to man up and take responsibility instead of trying to belittle me on an internet forum.

That is all.
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It's the most important rule, that's why he is focusing on it. It's the cornerstone of how our "trade" system works. My posts are in no way an excuse for you not following that rule.
 
EMT_Lee said:
Neither you, nor I, know why the seller needed the funds. Maybe he needed it to keep his power on? Regardless, it's done. Did he ever straight up refuse a refund, like you keep saying, or did he say he couldn't refund all the money right away? Maybe he would have refunded when he got his next paycheck at the end of the week. Who knows?
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He edited his sale to reflect the item sold on 5/28.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/852128-s90v-Acies-Sold!

Three days later, he purchases this knife. I think it is pretty apparent where the funds went. Classic case of cash burning a hole through the pocket.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/853219-WTS-2-Lion-Steel-SR-1-Ti-NEW!!?highlight=sr1
 
EMT_Lee said:
...Neither you, nor I, know why the seller needed the funds. Maybe he needed it to keep his power on? Regardless, it's done. Did he ever straight up refuse a refund, like you keep saying, or did he say he couldn't refund all the money right away? Maybe he would have refunded when he got his next paycheck at the end of the week. Who knows?
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My initial note to Tyler after receipt:
Got the Acies today. The lockup... well, let me work with it a bit. It locks up early, then with pressure, over-travels. Did you say Reese Weiland did the blade?

The thumb stud is off-center, which for right hander doesn't feel right (too little sticking out vs. the stock Acies, which I own). Is the thumb stud press-fit into the knife? Or threaded? I'll try to get it centered, but need to know whether to try to unscrew or just press it out.
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Tyler's response:

Rob,

The photos in the for sale ad clearly show the orientation on the thumbstud. There are two closeups of he blade on both sides.

As for the lockup, there is a picture of that also which shows it at approx 30%. Which is where I told Reese I wanted it. Every framelock that I've handled will go deeper into lockup if you try to push it in, especially the umnumzaan that I had last year.

I will not be able to do a refund on those terms. The funds have already been allocated.

If you do not get it to where you like it, I suggest you sell it on the forums. There were 2 guys that offered me my original price just moments after you paid for it. I'm sure you could sell it and make a little.

Once again, I'm sorry that it wasn't what you were hoping for.

-Tyler
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My 2nd response:
Please don't consider this to be a done deal.

I'm going to see if I can push the thumb stud into the center of the blade. It's blatantly obvious by feel that it isn't centered... not symmetrical.

I'll contact Reese to if his taking a couple thousandths off the stop pin, or recutting the angle of the lock bar, would improve things.

Depending on these outcomes, I may keep the knife, or I may ask you to refund the purchase price.

My schedule is pretty busy but I'll work on this knife in a reasonable time frame and won't mar the finish. Will keep you posted.
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Tyler's next commitment:
1)I have been studying the photos and I can not for the life of me depict any off centering of the thumbstud, and I can not tell you that I noticed any, so I do not believe that it is there.

2)I do not see how an early lockup is a problem, the lockup depth was clearly depicted in the ad.


3>> http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...ing-experience

*Please refer to rule number 5, it is in capital lettering, which would make me believe that it has been a topic that has been discussed frequently, and for a "veteran" of the exchange I would have hoped that you have read and understood the rules.

4) I have been burnt in the past for taking returns, not ever on the forums here, but on other forums and fleabay, and it has nothing to do with "how many positive feedbacks" a person may or may not have. Boxes have turned up empty, missing parts, or not even at all, and yet I was forced in some cases to give a refund for a problem that never existed in the first place!

In closing, in the spirit of trying to negotiate, I am willing to give you a one time offer, of a partial refund in light of this "centering issue" which I will give you your original offer of $400, leaving you with a $30 partial refund.

If you do not accept by 10:45pm tomorrow (tuesday June 7th) my offer will be terminated.
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My 3rd response:
Check my feedback. I'm not an amateur, nor am I a problematic buyer or seller.

Your response is unacceptable. The deal isn't done until it's done. The forum will back me on this.

It matters not what you've done with the funds. That is not the buyer's issue. Surely you've been on the forums long enough to know this.

Your suggestion to "Sell it on the forums" is also inappropriate. Please don't say "I'm sorry..." etc. That misses the point. Whether I could "make a little" misses the point also.

Your experience w/ framelocks doesn't size up the whole market. Framelocks that push deeper into position are NOT the norm.

It's not about the orientation of the thumbstud, and you know that. What I said is that the thumbstud isn't centered, it's not symmetrical. That's not an orientation issue.

Your response clearly indicates to me that you knew you were selling a problem knife. This deal isn't done yet. You will not find many buyers who will adjust knives to suit like I will. Most people will not deal with such issues. I will work with the knife, but reserve the right to ask for a refund, period.

Your response tells me LOADS about your knowledge and intent.

More to follow as I work through the issues with this knife, which was sold as a knife with dual blades and no indication of issues.
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It went on from there... but Tyler's mind was made up, he had spent the money already on something, and wasn't about to refund my money. Only a fool would have sent the knife back at this point.

It is my experience that when people are irrational, e.g. "I didn't see what you are describing, so it can't possibly be so", you are absolutely wasting your time with any reasoning, and pleading and begging are of course debasing and worthless tactics.

You've all now seen Tyler's mindset. Caveat Emptor. The only thing I can say positive about Tyler's approach is that he hasn't sassed the mods or used profanity yet. He hasn't been banned. Is there smoke, and a flame-out on the horizon?...

(Side note: it turned out that both the centering AND the orientation of the stud are off).
 
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I don't think user's can un-lock a thread, but I'm harvesting a couple things from TyFrameLock's original retaliatory GB&U post for perspective:

Gatorgodo:

Let me get this straight, you sold a knife, the buyer alerted you within 24 hours that he had problems with the deal and you could not refund his money because you had spent it. AND THEN YOU"VE GOT THE NERVE TO LEAVE THE BUYER NEGATIVE FEEDBACK. "Didn't follow protocol", yeah, someone didnt' but it wasn't him. You're a real piece of work.
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TyFrameLock:
I left negative feedback because his issue with the lockup was clearly outlined before the sale, bad judgement on his part and the second issue did not exist, I am in the process of contacting Reese myself to see if he even contacted him, since I believe he lied in the first place, so there is no reason to believe him now either[/B].
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I haven't heard from TyFrameLock on his little investigation... it serves him NOT to report-out, trust me on that...
 
Rob,
Forum name is enough for BFc purposes.
You should edit the personal info out of your post #45.

Seriously: The longer you two keep this up, the less the community will want to have anything to do with either of you.
 
How tyframelock handled your transaction was not right or proper but don't you think you're riding this thread's purpose a little far away from informative warning ville where it started?

I'm all for drama and you giving him enough rope to hang himself by but there's no need for you to grab up the excess rope and try to use it on yourself.

I agree that the sale wasn't handled well but, like EMT_lee pointed out, you've been around for a while and could have outlined what you expected to be basic considerations of the deal, you shouldn't have to but for how high an mighty you are acting you would think that you had. Are the proverbial victory laps you're doing here really necessary to get the point across?

When you kick up too much dirt and sling more than your fair share of mud, you end up dirty too.
 
j3jymann, I understand your point. Indeed, I've given him rope... but I don't consider these victory laps.

In fact, Reese Weiland and I have some work to do, and I postage to spend, before I come up close to being whole on this transaction. I'm a bit dirty, and I've gotten positively grubby once before (search "PachaasPaisaa), but I do not take it lightly when I'm treated without the common decency that forumites should expect in an expensive transaction, and especially when it's more than simply implied (it was stated) that I am lying.

But I get your point. The rope has been used by TyFrameLock, and he's still digging his pit. I'm pretty much done here. As I said, caveat emptor.
 
TyFrameLock said:
Actually, if you would look further into it, instead of just making BLIND ACCUSATIONS, I sold a knife prior to that, a small sebenza for 400, I then sold my acies to rob for 430, I then bought a knife for 385, you do the math, 400 + 430 = 830 -385 = 445 -415 (emergency room visit and cast for my wife) = 30 dollars, which is what I offered rob, all I had left for this month of June.

And thanks Rob, now I have to change my email, I JUST RECEIVED 3 EMAILS FROM WHO KNOWS WHO? TELLING ME HOW BIG OF A PIECE OF SH*T I AM....I will now have to get a new paypal account too, since you decided to flame me in a RUDE AND UNJUST MANNER!

WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? HAVE YOU NOT BEAT ME DOWN ENOUGH? DO YOU NEED MY SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER? MY HOME ADDRESS, MY PHONE NUMBER?

SHOULD I REGISTER AS A "BAD BLADEFORUMS EXHANGE USER" AND GET PUT A MAP LIKE REGISTERED SEX OFFENDERS????

GOOD GRIEF ROB.

You sir are the piece of work, not me.
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... any clues from this ... yet ... ?

... the drama ... the drama llama...
 
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TyFrameLock said:
Actually, if you would look further into it, instead of just making BLIND ACCUSATIONS, I sold a knife prior to that, a small sebenza for 400, I then sold my acies to rob for 430, I then bought a knife for 385, you do the math, 400 + 430 = 830 -385 = 445 -415 (emergency room visit and cast for my wife) = 30 dollars, which is what I offered rob, all I had left for this month of June.
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That response can refer to my very first post in this thread......

You should think ahead of time as opposed to the moment.....

Imagine all the time you would've saved, if not for that extra purchase........

I was just throwing that out there, so people didn't have the misconception that you didn't have the money to refund for a noble cause...
 
I have never had an issue on the forums previous and I believed that I wouldn't have any issues here either. The funds had been moved to an account which took an automatic payment out, the funds were gone, I discussed this with the seller and tried to offer a partial refund which is the best that I could do, giving him the benefit of the doubt on his issue, he declined.
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Ty,
In your thread you said the funds were moved to a different account were an auto payment was taken out. In this thread you say the funds went to pay for an emergency visit and a cast for your wife. While I'm not accusing you of lying about your wife's injury or emergency visit, I've just never heard of an emergency room taking an automatic payment out of any account. I've had a few trips to emergency rooms myself and even if you have insurance, you still don't pay right then, they send you a bill later on. Automatic payments are set up through banks and credit companies and are usually set up in a way that they take a payment every month or whatever.

Why would you have an auto payment system with your local ER? :cool:

Automatic payments can also be made by the account holder when they find a gray SR-1 they like.
I'm just pointing out how it looks from someone who has read both threads entirely.
 
Rob_Angerer said:
j3jymann, I understand your point. Indeed, I've given him rope... but I don't consider these victory laps.

In fact, Reese Weiland and I have some work to do, and I postage to spend, before I come up close to being whole on this transaction. I'm a bit dirty, and I've gotten positively grubby once before (search "PachaasPaisaa), but I do not take it lightly when I'm treated without the common decency that forumites should expect in an expensive transaction, and especially when it's more than simply implied (it was stated) that I am lying.

But I get your point. The rope has been used by TyFrameLock, and he's still digging his pit. I'm pretty much done here. As I said, caveat emptor.
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I agree -- I certainly wouldn't consider the posting of the emails or anything else you've done in your recent posts in the thread mere "victory laps". IMHO, those posts -- particularly Ty's responses to Rob's reasonable and timely contacts about the issues with the knife he saw on arrival -- tell us at least as much about what kind of person/seller Ty is as anything else in the thread. As such, they fit with the stated purpose of the thread (and of the GB&U forum more generally), which is to provide feedback on folks we might encounter here on the Exchange.

After everything that has unfolded in this thread and the (now-locked) retaliatory thread, I feel more confident than ever in my initial post, in which I said I'll definitely be avoiding having any dealings -- whether buying, selling, or trading -- with TyFrameLock.
 
TyFrameLock said:
Actually, if you would look further into it, instead of just making BLIND ACCUSATIONS, I sold a knife prior to that, a small sebenza for 400, I then sold my acies to rob for 430, I then bought a knife for 385, you do the math, 400 + 430 = 830 -385 = 445 -415 (emergency room visit and cast for my wife) = 30 dollars, which is what I offered rob, all I had left for this month of June.

And thanks Rob, now I have to change my email, I JUST RECEIVED 3 EMAILS FROM WHO KNOWS WHO? TELLING ME HOW BIG OF A PIECE OF SH*T I AM....I will now have to get a new paypal account too, since you decided to flame me in a RUDE AND UNJUST MANNER!

WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? HAVE YOU NOT BEAT ME DOWN ENOUGH? DO YOU NEED MY SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER? MY HOME ADDRESS, MY PHONE NUMBER?

SHOULD I REGISTER AS A "BAD BLADEFORUMS EXHANGE USER" AND GET PUT A MAP LIKE REGISTERED SEX OFFENDERS????

GOOD GRIEF ROB.

You sir are the piece of work, not me.
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Right, now you're the victim in this situation. Can't even give you points for originality there, it's a pretty standard move.

There was an earlier point in this thread when I thought maybe Rob was being a little overzealous, but TyFrameLock you have done nothing that gives me any sympathy for you at all.
I hope that eventually you'll be able to learn something from all this, it's pretty obvious you haven't so far. At any given point in time you have had, and continue to have, the choice to make things right with Rob.

Can you address Undertow82's observation and question?
 
This thread needs to end
No more can be accomplished here - both parties stated their case and other members have spoken.
The two of you are going to do yourselves more harm than good at this point.

close the door an move on
 
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