Unsecure package ... Empty

[TheCarbideRat]

Good deal, virtue is said to be it's own reward.

 

[mycroftt]

Every now and then I notice a screw-up or theft by wayward USPS employees, I would not entirely rule the employees out of the picture.

How do you know it was a USPS employee? Since FedEx carries 90% or more of Priority Mail, it is much more likely that any theft is by a FedEx or airport employee.

 

[mycroftt]

Interestingly I think there is some kind of sub-culture in the USPS, I've had several packages come through them with "the holes" as well, and the vibe was the same, as in they did not get there by accident. One package was almost ripped in half, with THEIR tape taping it up. Cockroaches.

UPS / Fedex I never had any issues with.

You can only conclude that an honest USPS employee rewrapped the damaged package. The damage could have been done by anyone - most likely by an airport or FedEx employee, since they have custody of the Priority Mail for most of its trip. If the delivery is within a couple of hundred miles, it is most likely that USPS handled it end-to-end and trucked it to its destination office.

 

[mycroftt]

So delivery confirmation allows the denial of insurance or any claim? That is the pits

Sounds like a dishonest person could just drop a torn, empty box into the Post Office drop box with Delivery confirmation by buying postage at one of the kiosks. Viola it is delivered and the buyer gets stiffed.

That is simply not true. A delivery scan would disallow a claim based on non-delivery but it would not disallow a claim based on missing or damaged contents.

 

[Gator33324]

I had a USPS package shipped to me with insuarance and delivery confirmation that was supposedly left on my doorstep. My wife was home all day and she never heard the doorbell and it wasn't there any time she looked. Postal insurance was useless because package was delivered. Ebay/Paypal dispute was useless because package was delivered. We assumed it was stolen, but can't be sure. It could have been delivered to the wrong house, but since the P.O. shows it as being delivered, it's not their problem.

The Post Office is not supposed to leave anything on your doorstep. UPS can, but the PO cannot. They are not even allowed to hand it to you in your driveway. They are required to put it in the mailbox and then if something happens from there, it's a federal crime.

I had a similar issue with my local PO. I ordered a Dodecapod and it was marked as delivered. Problem was, I live in a condo and there is no way to get that to fit in the condo mailbox! Usually, they leave a slip and I pick it up at the PO, but no slip and no package. I argued with the PO that it could not have been delivered to me, but since the package was not insured, there was nothing they could do about it. To their credit, they did go out and check similar addresses to see if it was perhaps delivered to the incorrect address.

The company did agree to send me another one, but the oddest thing was that when the 2nd one arrived at the PO, they miraculously found the original AND several other packages that were too large for the mailbox that I had never received a pickup slip.

 

[mycroftt]

The earlier question still hasn't been answered. Besides the visual theft deterrent of your package being insured, I doubt a claim would be paid for this type of knife. I have talked to many high volume sellers and traders who agree insurance on USPS shipped items of this type is a waste of money.

USPS would only pay a claim on an automatic knife under certain limited circumstancs. First, automatic knives are not mailable except to certain military and law enforcement officials for official use, and to manufacturers:

Knives and Sharp Instruments
12.6.1 Mailability
Knives (including sharp-pointed instruments such as stilettos that lack cutting edges) with a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle, or by operations of inertia, gravity, or both, or with a detachable blade propelled by a spring-operated mechanism, are mailable only when sent to:

a. The respective government's or organization's designated supply or procurement officers and employees ordering, procuring, or buying such knives for use with the activities of the federal government; the National Guard, the Air National Guard, or the militia of a state, territory, or the District of Columbia; or the municipal government of the District of Columbia or of the government of any state or territory, or of any county, city, or other political subdivision of a state or territory.

b. Manufacturers of such knives, or bona fide dealers of such knives, in connection with a shipment made under an order from any person designated in 12.6.1a.

The insurance rules do not permit payment for claims for loss or damage to nonmailable goods:

4.3 Nonpayable Claims
Indemnity is not paid for insured mail, Registered Mail, COD, or Express Mail in these situations:
...
s. Nonmailable items, prohibited items, or restricted items not prepared and mailed according to postal standards, or any item packaged in such a manner that it could not have reached its destination undamaged in the normal course of the mail.

So you are right that USPS would not pay a claim for an automatic knife being mailed between private parties.

 

[mycroftt]

Interestingly I yesterday emailed an online knife dealer about a knife I bought from him which seemed to be a few days late in delivery, he used USPS and their tracking site is just about useless as far as pertinent information goes; here is what he had to say:

"We are not showing a scan yet either. Deliveries are usually 3-5 days. A few years ago the USPS seemed to be doing inspections on packages. We had a constant 1% of shipments that took 30 days for delivery and had been opened. Suddenly that stopped and we have not seen this for about 2 years. We will check back and let you know if there is new information."

USPS only provides tracking on Express Mail. Other classes of mail use services like Delivery Confirmation or Signature Confirmation and they are not real-time (or even near-real-time) tracking systems. They were designed to provide electronic feedback to large commercial fulfillment shippers so they can close the loop on their shipments after they are delivered. There was no need for real-time data in the original (commercial) design and that has not been changed for the "retail" version that you or I would purchase at the PO.

Keep in mind that First-Class, Priority, and Express Mail are sealed against inspection and require a warrant issued by a federal judge for anyone to open them. Other classes, like Parcel Post, are not sealed and can be opened for inspection just like your luggage at the airport.

 

[teacher]

I have over the last few months come to the conclusion that delivery confirmation is all but useless. All it show is that is was delivered..... somewhere. If a mistake is made and the package is delivered to the wrong address.... it still shows it was delivered.

I have gone to signature confirmation & insurance.



PS / Glad it worked out Charlie Mike....

 

[TheCarbideRat]

How do you know it was a USPS employee? Since FedEx carries 90% or more of Priority Mail, it is much more likely that any theft is by a FedEx or airport employee.

Point taken, however it is easy to stump people with demanding proof, can you prove how a catalytic converter works? [you can't] We dropped off an envelope with $10 bill in it at the local rural PO, and it got stolen by someone who worked there. Do I have photos and recordings? Not, but I know what I know just the same, as in who had access to the building.

How do you "know" your car will start?

 

[jill jackson]

The Post Office is not supposed to leave anything on your doorstep. UPS can, but the PO cannot. They are not even allowed to hand it to you in your driveway. They are required to put it in the mailbox and then if something happens from there, it's a federal crime.

The mailman drives in my lane all the time and delivers the mail by handing it to us in our driveway. Anything that needs a signature or won't fit gets brought in, along with the rest of the day's mail.

 

[Gator33324]

The mailman drives in my lane all the time and delivers the mail by handing it to us in our driveway. Anything that needs a signature or won't fit gets brought in, along with the rest of the day's mail.

They are "not supposed to". If he gets caught by a postal inspector, he will lose his job. Even if he or she knows you. They can hand you your mail if you are inside the house or put it in the mailbox.

This is what I was told by the 800# I called on the USPS website.

 

[Sundsvall]

unfortunately for the seller, if the sale is domestic he is responsible for the contents until in the hands of the buyer.

Is this true for all 50 states?

 

[knifeswapper]

That is simply not true. A delivery scan would disallow a claim based on non-delivery but it would not disallow a claim based on missing or damaged contents.

Only if insured. If DelConf only, and empty package scanned delivered would not have any recourse via paypal or credit card (and the USPS can't help because it was not insured). If they would not scan "delivered" a package that obviously had the end ripped out of it; you could refuse delivery and be open to file a claim with paypal / cc. Many carriers, especially rural, scan it delivered as they are sorting in the mornings at the PO; thus you have no options once they show up with it.

 

[elkins45]

So delivery confirmation allows the denial of insurance or any claim? That is the pits

Sounds like a dishonest person could just drop a torn, empty box into the Post Office drop box with Delivery confirmation by buying postage at one of the kiosks. Viola it is delivered and the buyer gets stiffed.

Happens every day, as does the reverse (buyer empties the box then claims fraud). Feedback ratings are really your only way to plan against getting taken other than relying on the happy fact that most knife people are straight-up honest. If a seller has a pattern of multiple successful deals, the odds are in your favor he/she won't suddenly decide to screw you.

 

[mycroftt]

Point taken, however it is easy to stump people with demanding proof, can you prove how a catalytic converter works? [you can't] We dropped off an envelope with $10 bill in it at the local rural PO, and it got stolen by someone who worked there. Do I have photos and recordings? Not, but I know what I know just the same, as in who had access to the building.

How do you "know" your car will start?

Good point. I'm currently involved in following the trial, in New Haven CT, of one of the home-invading lowlifes who raped and murdered a woman and her her 11 and 17 year old daughters in 2007. It interests me because the crime was committed in my mother-in-law's neighborhood. Our discussion here kind of reminds me of the standard of proof required for conviction: reasonable doubt - not beyond a shadow of a doubt, so I agree that when a reasonable person believes they know what happened, it is irrelevant that there was no eye witness or it didn't get caught on camera. When you have a darn good idea what happened, there isn't any need for further nit-picking. :thumbup:

 

[mycroftt]

That is simply not true. A delivery scan would disallow a claim based on non-delivery but it would not disallow a claim based on missing or damaged contents.

Only if insured. If DelConf only, and empty package scanned delivered would not have any recourse via paypal or credit card (and the USPS can't help because it was not insured). If they would not scan "delivered" a package that obviously had the end ripped out of it; you could refuse delivery and be open to file a claim with paypal / cc. Many carriers, especially rural, scan it delivered as they are sorting in the mornings at the PO; thus you have no options once they show up with it.

Quite so. My post only holds true for claims against USPS-issued insurance. I wasn't considering the other types of coverage. Thank you for clarifying my post and adding the additional necessary information. :thumbup: