Update: Need Advice on A Transaction"

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Those scammers sure are great at quoting semi-legal sounding boilerplate to fleece their victims.

Yes you can be sure I paid the wealth transfer fee assurance charges and issuing bank of Dogpatch Ark is known worldwide for it's trustworthiness.
 
ooitzoo said:
I tried to figure out the other thread but its a mess and I can't really figure out what is going on there.

He may want to clear his name or may believe he has a genuine concern. Either way, we can either read it or ignore it.
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Quick synopsis since the OP of this thread can't bother to let us know.....

parkertelmo (OP of the thread linked above, seller) sold some knives to cmac12 (buyer). The buyer used a cashiers check. Buyer claimed knives were not in undamaged package. Seller was concerned the check was fake and would not clear properly even weeks down the line. See how quick and easy that was? So here we are now. Buyer's only recourse now is law enforcement/postal inspector. If paypal was used this would have been very easy to take care of IMO.


knifehunt said:
So where has the OP gone, has anyone heard from him?
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You mean the OP of the other thread, right? The Seller. Someone should notify him of this thread. Mods should also get involved so this thread doesn't go the way of the last one.
 
This seems relatively simple to me. The original poster (seller) took a cashier's check as payment. The OP of this thread (buyer) alleges that the items he paid for were not in the package (an envelope) he received. The Seller swears he sent everything, but was concerned about whether the cashier's check was good. The buyer swears the check is good. So, here's where that leaves us: The buyer needs proof (always hard to prove a negative) that he didn't get what he paid for. As for the seller, the check is either good or it isn't. He's been encouraged to call the issuing bank to confirm its validity. If he's done that, he hasn't shared that info here. The fact that he got the money doesn't mean the check isn't counterfeit. It can take a while for that to be determined.

It's a mess, but it isn't all that complicated, factually. The buyer has done exactly what we should expect - given his side of the story. So has the seller. One of them is lying. We have no way to know which.
 
HappyDaddy said:
This seems relatively simple to me. The original poster (seller) took a cashier's check as payment. The OP of this thread (buyer) alleges that the items he paid for were not in the package (an envelope) he received. The Seller swears he sent everything, but was concerned about whether the cashier's check was good. The buyer swears the check is good. So, here's where that leaves us: The buyer needs proof (always hard to prove a negative) that he didn't get what he paid for. As for the seller, the check is either good or it isn't. He's been encouraged to call the issuing bank to confirm its validity. If he's done that, he hasn't shared that info here. The fact that he got the money doesn't mean the check isn't counterfeit. It can take a while for that to be determined.

It's a mess, but it isn't all that complicated, factually. The buyer has done exactly what we should expect - given his side of the story. So has the seller. One of them is lying. We have no way to know which.
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Why hasn't the seller just cashed the check? It's a 3 day (max) turnaround.
 
craytab said:
You mean the OP of the other thread, right? The Seller. Someone should notify him of this thread. Mods should also get involved so this thread doesn't go the way of the last one.
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Yes, the OP in the other thread (parkertelmo). This is not looking good.
 
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HappyDaddy said:
I assume that he has. The problem is that his bank can pay the check, then find out from the issuing bank that the check was counterfeit. That can take much longer than three days - sometimes weeks.

http://www.occ.gov/news-issuances/consumer-advisories/2007/consumer-advisory-2007-1.html
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That's doubtful. Iirc checks have to clear funds available within 3 days or the bank has to provide clear reason for why not within 7. He would know by now if the check was bogus.
 
ooitzoo said:
That's doubtful. Iirc checks have to clear funds available within 3 days or the bank has to provide clear reason for why not within 7. He would know by now if the check was bogus.
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Did you read what the Comptroller of the Currency says? They disagree with you. So does the law of commercial paper.

From the link:

"Your bank also may not be able to determine that the check is fraudulent when you deposit it. Rather, your bank may learn of the problem only when the check is returned unpaid by the other bank—which may take a couple weeks or more. Scammers try to make the item look genuine, which will delay discovery of the fraud. Once the item has been returned unpaid, your bank, generally, will be able to reverse the deposit to your account and collect the amount of the deposit from you."
 
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Judging from the Seller's timing of his post (prior one) this check should have been cashed well over two weeks ago or even longer. So, one would know if it is good by now. Seller can add here - that would be nice. This one is going to be tough. It seems there are two seemingly honest folks involved, but either one is lying or someone did highjack the knives in transit. Check cashing and clearing would be a good sign for the buyer in my book.
 
Gastonknife said:
Judging from the Seller's timing of his post (prior one) this check should have been cashed well over two weeks ago or even longer. So, one would know if it is good by now. Seller can add here - that would be nice. This one is going to be tough. It seems there are two seemingly honest folks involved, but either one is lying or someone did highjack the knives in transit. Check cashing and clearing would be a good sign for the buyer in my book.
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Yes it would. Unfortunately we might not know if it clears fully for a while. Also, the way the buyer is interacting with this community is strange to say the least.

I'll just add again how easy this would be to figure out if they used paypal. Paypal has a vested interest in figuring something out here. USPS and the Law does not.
 
HappyDaddy said:
Did you read what the Comptroller of the Currency says? They disagree with you. So does the law of commercial paper.

From the link:

"Your bank also may not be able to determine that the check is fraudulent when you deposit it. Rather, your bank may learn of the problem only when the check is returned unpaid by the other bank—which may take a couple weeks or more. Scammers try to make the item look genuine, which will delay discovery of the fraud. Once the item has been returned unpaid, your bank, generally, will be able to reverse the deposit to your account and collect the amount of the deposit from you."
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Dude, you're quoting an occ paper from 2007. The holds they're referring to are typically 7 day and they have to notify the cashing account of the hold unless they believe it's money laundering or that acct is somehow involved in the fraud.

Less nuance then I would like but best I can do with limited time and over mobile:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedited_Funds_Availability_Act

To craytabs point: you're right. Pp is best but I remember folks using cashier's checks as a means to enforce fraud statute (typically for bigger ticket items). Eg if you cash the check and then don't send your end you've got a double problem (mail AND wire fraud).
 
craytab said:
..... Also, the way the buyer is interacting with this community is strange to say the least.
...........
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He has a dry and formal personality. He'll never win a charisma contest, but that doesn't mean he's dishonest by any means.
 
Guys. Please reread my previous posts. The seller received next day funds on the cashiers check one day after deposit according to federal law. The check has completed the collection cycle. The cashiers check is authentic and the seller can have his financial institution call the issuing bank to further confirm- in fact I've encouraged that.
 
The seller stated his decision at the end of the last thread
"The cashiers check still says pending but even if it does go through i am not sending any money back while i dont have any of my knives back. If there is some chance that the knives were stollen out of the package than so be it i will or the buyer can file for insurance i put on the knives. As it stands the buyer said no one had tampered with the package. I have bought and sold tons of things on bladeforums and never been questioned of my integrity once before. If any buyer can lie and say they go an empty box than no one would ever get paid for the items they sent. I filed a claim with the postal inspectors and tried to call about the check to check status twice. If i hadnt sent the knives would i really ask for advice on all this? "
 
It's not a dry personality. It's a profile that matches the person who signs up and within 3 posts has ripped off someone in the exchange.

I don't want to talk to anyone or have anyone talk to me. I want to buy a $500 knife that's paid for via an outlier method and shipped to a deniable location. Then I will start making claims that can't be checked and demand a refund etc. or other compensations immediately.

If the guy is green etc. and not up on how to interact via the web there are huge dealers whose online presence will get their attention before this place will.

This profile appears on here with X dollars in hand to buy specific high dollar knife in as much of a rush as possible. It's a red flag.

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0159-fake-checks

http://publications.usa.gov/ punch fraud in the search box.

http://www.snopes.com/fraud/sales/cashier.asp

Just a new variation on the old overpayment method.
 
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Danke42 summed it up perfectly. 30-45 days really for the Cashiers Check because of the Sender actions.

I won't be taking anything other then a USPS money Order after this.
 
Same here on the USPS Money order . I don't know who to believe in all this . I have handled most all my transaction ever on any forum I have belonged to with mostly paypal. I have taken a cashiers check before a few times and plenty of USPS money orders. We actually do live in very dangerous times if you do a lot of online buying and selling. Say you sent a package that was boxed up good and shipped with insurance and they denied your claim . They say the box showed up but buyer says nothing was in it. What then ... It seems this is what we may be dealing with right here.

Does the seller refund like some have said ?? Or if the buyer is a legit as he says .. Should he be out ? I don't recall the dollar amount here but it is a sucky situation to say the least.
 
Does the seller refund like some have said ?? Or if the buyer is a legit as he says .. Should he be out ? I don't recall the dollar amount here but it is a sucky situation to say the least.[/QUOTE said:
They split the difference, that's what should happen as no one will ever know the truth.
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knifehunt said:
They split the difference, that's what should happen as no one will ever know the truth.
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The problem, and it may be intractable, is that one of them is almost certainly lying. (The scenario in which neither is lying is if the package was surreptitiously opened by a third-party and perfectly resealed). If the Buyer is being honest, he'd be out half of his money, with only a sheath to show for it. If the seller is being honest, he'd be foolish to return the money (assuming the money is really there).

On a side note - taking anything but cash (in a face to face), or paypal goods (if remote) is not smart. I don't think we"ll ever know the truth here.
 
won't be taking anything other then a USPS money Order after this.
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Their security features are better than other commercial paper, but that only matters if you are very familiar with them and can tell the difference between a legitimate one and a counterfeit by looking at them.
 
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