Kit, by your response you show that you understood very well what I was saying. As well, others here seem to agree so it's not like I was speaking another language. Paragraphs weren't needed so let's not start with tit for tat nonsense here. Yes, you can be involved with other forums even though you may not agree with everything that goes on. However, that wasn't the point. The point being, people such as your self have a lot of pull. You are a fine maker with alot of years under your belt. Most people wont f**k with you for those reasons. Much the way some people are afraid of said site because they have some sort of pull. You seem to do great business and I have never heard a bad word about you. I have met you a couple times and you were a hell of a nice fella. With that, neautral stances don't change squat. If someone is neautral, why chime in more than once? Wouldn't you agree (all bull aside) that someone was in the worng here and it wasn't DrDan or the Postal service? It's pretty black and white bro.
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Update Re: Kyle Eichenseer
- Thread starter Drdan
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RDT, I don't have a clue what you mean by tit for tat. I copied what you posted into Notepad and separated it so I could understand what you were posting. As posted, I honestly had trouble reading thru it.
Suggestions? How about I catch a plane to Las Vegas, rent a car, find his house, and kick his butt. Might as well take the money that might be owed to DrDan from his wallet while I'm at it. Yea, right.
I'm not a cop. I'm not his mother.
I've spent plenty of time emailing and pm'ing quite a few makers letting them know what's going on with a thread that may concern them. Beyond that, not alot I can do.
One of the reasons I've followed this thread is cause I love the smell of sour grapes, and I don't mean between Both parties involved.
Suggestions? How about I catch a plane to Las Vegas, rent a car, find his house, and kick his butt. Might as well take the money that might be owed to DrDan from his wallet while I'm at it. Yea, right.
I'm not a cop. I'm not his mother.
I've spent plenty of time emailing and pm'ing quite a few makers letting them know what's going on with a thread that may concern them. Beyond that, not alot I can do.
One of the reasons I've followed this thread is cause I love the smell of sour grapes, and I don't mean between Both parties involved.
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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Kit Carson said:
I hope so too, and I hope it happens before Kit wears out his keyboard posting that.
Um okay, I'm certainly no Rhodes scholar. It would seem that you are the only one though. Chalk it up as many run on sentences. Tirade, stream of consciousness, rants, what ever you want. The point obviously came across well enough for you to again respond as you have. No one is asking any of you to go to his house and "kick" anything and get the money back. If you have indeed contacted others about this and helped out as implied then excellent!
If you have the ability to form an opinion and then to chime in with that opinion (no matter how apparently neutral), then you involve yourself. To some degree upholding the standards of good business and fairness makes you a cop of sorts. Fine so be it. I think you are one of those "good people" who do business correctly. Your reputation and skill would lead all of us to believe that. Then we are all cops either for ourselves and/or for everyone else. Crap like this won't change unless the "heavies" do something about it. You are a "heavy" (compliment). You felt it necessary to repeat yourself with the same comment, which I made in the beginning. That makes you appear interested in solving the matter. Review of the CLEAR CUT evidence would say that Dan was seriously wronged and is now only partially compensated. Total compensation is needed, as the offended party requires it PERIOD. Do you support that?
"Tit for Tat". You don't think it's obvious that calling attention to my lack of interest in sentence/paragraph structure by placing a link to the definition and proper use of "paragraphs" be a jab? I think you understand very well what I was saying Sir. Lastly, you further "Tit"
by saying you love the smell of sour grapes, implying that the smell comes from others such as me and not Dan or Kyle. In what way is that fair? So you show us that you have no particular attachment to any part of this debate. So instead you show us pride in watching this go by as it has and sticking your useless comment in over and over. That too is a jab. That behavior further implies you don't completely side with the evidence. Otherwise we have all understood by now that you "hope this works out for both parties involved" and no one is offended but Dan without his money after too long and after being treated like sh*t all the while. Real nice.
If you have the ability to form an opinion and then to chime in with that opinion (no matter how apparently neutral), then you involve yourself. To some degree upholding the standards of good business and fairness makes you a cop of sorts. Fine so be it. I think you are one of those "good people" who do business correctly. Your reputation and skill would lead all of us to believe that. Then we are all cops either for ourselves and/or for everyone else. Crap like this won't change unless the "heavies" do something about it. You are a "heavy" (compliment). You felt it necessary to repeat yourself with the same comment, which I made in the beginning. That makes you appear interested in solving the matter. Review of the CLEAR CUT evidence would say that Dan was seriously wronged and is now only partially compensated. Total compensation is needed, as the offended party requires it PERIOD. Do you support that?
"Tit for Tat". You don't think it's obvious that calling attention to my lack of interest in sentence/paragraph structure by placing a link to the definition and proper use of "paragraphs" be a jab? I think you understand very well what I was saying Sir. Lastly, you further "Tit"
by saying you love the smell of sour grapes, implying that the smell comes from others such as me and not Dan or Kyle. In what way is that fair? So you show us that you have no particular attachment to any part of this debate. So instead you show us pride in watching this go by as it has and sticking your useless comment in over and over. That too is a jab. That behavior further implies you don't completely side with the evidence. Otherwise we have all understood by now that you "hope this works out for both parties involved" and no one is offended but Dan without his money after too long and after being treated like sh*t all the while. Real nice.
I think that the point was missed.
Kit knows that hes a heavy in the industry, but hes in no position to affect the change that you wish him to. Unless youd like him to make a personal visit. In fact, there are very few people that can affect the change that some many would like. . .no matter the amount of foot stomping, arm waving, yelling, etc.
Ive know Kit for a little while, and when he says, I hope this is worked out to both parties involved, he is sincere. Viewing or posting in this thread doesnt mean that one has to take sides, form an opinion or share with others an opinion that is formed.
Kit knows that hes a heavy in the industry, but hes in no position to affect the change that you wish him to. Unless youd like him to make a personal visit. In fact, there are very few people that can affect the change that some many would like. . .no matter the amount of foot stomping, arm waving, yelling, etc.
Ive know Kit for a little while, and when he says, I hope this is worked out to both parties involved, he is sincere. Viewing or posting in this thread doesnt mean that one has to take sides, form an opinion or share with others an opinion that is formed.
The point goes to Gigone! Batter up! Look, originally my point wasn't entirely aimed at anyone but rather at the several people being dual members who could actually take a neutral position rather than saying something like "I can't believe this, let me see what I can do. I will call my buddy Kyle and talk it over with him" Rather than saying something bland. Or rather than saying "I know so and so and they would never do this or that". There have been several side discussions on this topic and all related topics via email with other members. My point was I am amazed that though some of us may have allegiances that no longer include DrDan, that doesn't mean it's " not within our cable tow" (so to speak ) to stand up for his rights. As members in good standing that's what we should do if we see someone getting screwed. So we have seen a few people with other allegiances taking neutral positions and in doing so not really saying what they feel. There's a lot of pussy footing language around here instead of getting to the heart of the matter and saying what we want. I understand Sparks concerns, as well, he no longer wishes to fan the flames that sometime roar between sites. In the end, though Kyle is someone who's bought your knives or you've bought his knives or he's had good trades with you....YOU DO NOT KNOW HIM. He's a ghost behind a computer screen and occasional ship that passes at a knife show just like anyone else. So when the preponderance of evidence is in Dan's favor and you still back Kyle with a pussy footers tongue you do us all a disservice. Am I wrong? I don't want anyone to be Kyle's Mama. We all owe it to one another in order to keep transactions on this site clean and free of pr*cks who steal, to keep eye out and "call a spade a spade" when it's clear he's a spade. Sorry for the lack of a better term.
Look, originally my point wasn't entirely aimed at anyone but rather at the several people being dual members who could actually take a neutral position rather than saying something like "I can't believe this, let me see what I can do. I will call my buddy Kyle and talk it over with him" Rather than saying something bland. Or rather than saying "I know so and so and they would never do this or that". There have been several side discussions on this topic and all related topics via email with other members. My point was I am amazed that though some of us may have allegiances that no longer include DrDan, that doesn't mean it's " not within our cable tow" (so to speak ) to stand up for his rights. As members in good standing that's what we should do if we see someone getting screwed. So we have seen a few people with other allegiances taking neutral positions and in doing so not really saying what they feel. There's a lot of pussy footing language around here instead of getting to the heart of the matter and saying what we want. I understand Sparks concerns, as well, he no longer wishes to fan the flames that sometime roar between sites. In the end, though Kyle is someone who's bought your knives or you've bought his knives or he's had good trades with you....YOU DO NOT KNOW HIM. He's a ghost behind a computer screen and occasional ship that passes at a knife show just like anyone else. So when the preponderance of evidence is in Dan's favor and you still back Kyle with a pussy footers tongue you do us all a disservice. Am I wrong? I don't want anyone to be Kyle's Mama. We all owe it to one another in order to keep transactions on this site clean and free of pr*cks who steal, to keep eye out and "call a spade a spade" when it's clear he's a spade. Sorry for the lack of a better term.the45Guy, there will of course be those of you who know each other better. Though, haven't you ever had a friend who's told you a lil' lie now and then to deflect blame from them? Not to hurt you or decieve you intentionally but to almost sorta not let you down as you expect "better" from them. We know now that Kyle sent it but apparently it was post marked much later than he said which would lead Dan and most logical people from thinking he sent it much earlier. As well, the fact that he basically told Dan to screw off and he's getting the shaft and not his goods and $$ back originally also speaks volumes. You and he may be friends for a long time but can you stand behind your friend for that? That doesn't mean you abandon your friend but what I would do would be to encourage my friend to make the offended party whole. Why? because it's good for his character, it's good for his business and good for everyone else on the site who would do business with him in the future. Because it's fair, because you would hate that crap happening to you. Even if you take it personal and relate that way. It sucks either way. I'm not saying Kyle isn't a good friend to you but to somone he doesn't know like Dan, he just might have been much less than honest with. That is most certainly a possibility even in the mind of a friend.
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
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Amen brother and Happy Easter to all my friends here and on that 'other forum!!!GigOne said:I think that the point was missed.
Kit knows that hes a heavy in the industry, but hes in no position to affect the change that you wish him to. Unless youd like him to make a personal visit. In fact, there are very few people that can affect the change that some many would like. . .no matter the amount of foot stomping, arm waving, yelling, etc.
Ive know Kit for a little while, and when he says, I hope this is worked out to both parties involved, he is sincere. Viewing or posting in this thread doesnt mean that one has to take sides, form an opinion or share with others an opinion that is formed.
and that Kit fella sure is old ain't he?
RDT , so then you know Dan well enuff to be sure he is telling the truth ? Calling someone a liar or a cheat like I have seen done here , just crackes me up. I know Kyle well enuff that if he said he sent it , then he did , that's all I need to know .
Why won't he post here ? hmmm prob cause you and Keith seem to have all the answers , just a guess though.
Kit... yup grapes indeed
Why won't he post here ? hmmm prob cause you and Keith seem to have all the answers , just a guess though.
Kit... yup grapes indeed
wolfmann601 said:. . . and that Kit fella sure is old ain't he?
I like to think of him as. . . . . . .err. . . . . . . . .well preserved.
I have to be careful what I say. . . . .Kit has been working on a auto version of a medium or large M4 for me.
Well,can't he file an insurance claim for the package he sent so Dan can get his money back? No Offense to Eich,but without his help,I don't see how this can be completely resolved.I mean Dan can't put in an insurance claim or start a package trace by himself.I can appreciate the fact that he and Dan have had a bad transaction for several reasons that really pissed him off,but communication still needs to be maintained between the two parties till this is resolved.
the45guy, nah man. Kyle's response to Dan publicly was enough to believe in. Or rather, it was unbelievable that he would be so sh*tty to him and let his buddies pile on him as well. That he would get banned at all for asking very politely over a loooong period of time and with immeasurable patience for his possessions back. That is the truth and it was done in full view of anyone who'd care to see. They say actions speak louder than words and Kyles actions are way louder than words he's told you in "confidence".
Side note, Kits knives are tops (and they ain't ass kissin', just facts)
PS, paintbfreak1325 I think "they" were brought in because Kyle is their Tech support and as such is a repesentative of "them".
Side note, Kits knives are tops (and they ain't ass kissin', just facts)
PS, paintbfreak1325 I think "they" were brought in because Kyle is their Tech support and as such is a repesentative of "them".
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the45guy said:
Dan doesn't have his damascus or his money and has never received any information from Kyle to help him to rectify this situation. Yes I do believe Dan as a matter of fact.
It's really an amazing coincidence that Kyle sent Dan his knives in Italy, but Dan never received them and they were supposedly confiscated by Italian Customs and returned to Kyle. This even though balisongs are not illegal to import or own in Italy and Italian Customs never notified Dan of any confiscation even though this is something they always do. Now to go along with that Kyle supposedly sent him the damascus and it has been lost? Even if that is the truth it is Kyles responsibility to replace what has been lost or to refund Dan's money.
Cougar Allen
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the45guy said:
Whoa -- this seems to be some new information here -- or is it? Are you saying Kyle told you he finally sent the materials he still owes? When? Or are you saying IF he told you that THEN you would believe him?
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If on the other hand the damascus was delivered to Dan then I am sure that Kyle has a proof of delivery that could be posted here to put this all to bed.
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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P.S. I should probably explain for the benefit of those who are coming to this in the middle, the deal is Kyle Eichenseer is supposed to send the materials Dr. Dan paid for to the same fellow in the US that he returned Dr. Dan's knife to, to be sent on to Italy. That fellow prefers not to get embroiled in all this and there's no reason he should; his only involvement is in the shipping process. When he receives it he's going to let us moderators know immediately, and he hasn't. His integrity is beyond question, by the way.
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