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Update Re: Kyle Eichenseer

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maestrodawg1 said:
No one is covering for anyone, you are continuing to accuse people, other than Eich or DrDan, of conspiricies that didn't happen.
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Uhh, wrote a big and fiesty reply but then realized it just wasn't worth the hassle.

I view backing up of a thief, flinging mud at others in attempt to shift the focus away from the real issue and implying that the victim must be making his story up despite the evidence to the contrary (and the lack of evidence to support such silly claims - as in the receipt and/or tracking number for shipment of elusive tools and materials) instead of simply proving that Kyle has shipped those materials long time ago as "covering for him". YMMV. Then again, you probably also think that taking somebody's $200 isn't really stealing :rolleyes:

I'm not "continuing to accuse" anybody so give me a break. Thank you. If you have the evidence that the stuff has been shipped long since please post it; otherwise all you're doing in your attempts to shift the spotlight away and to get this thread locked and whatnot, it's just covering up, regardless of reason for you doing so. It doesn't take a "conspiracy" (agreement with the purpetrator) to do what some of you are doing.
 
You know faramir, your right, I should have ignored you before but I will now. Read the last couple of pages, the thread is back on track whichever side your on in this case...except for you.


Thanks to Keith, MelancholyMutt, RDT, Mr. Linton, jmxcpter, modorators, et al for bringing the thread back to task
 
maestrodawg1 said:
Mr. Linton,

Correct me if I'm wrong but if there is no agreement to reverse the contract, then Kyle is not under obligation to damage himself either in order to return the goods or the price.

So DrDan would have to show "unjust enrichment" and Kyle could show that reversing the deal outside the contract would damage his financial standing, ie Kyle isn't obligated to damage himself to reverse the deal on DrDan's insistence.
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If by "contract" you mean the agreement between Drdan and Eich to preform certain work on Drdan's knife, I didn't think there was a dispute that the parties agreed to call it off (rescind).

If one accepts Drdan''s version of what happened thereafter and further assumes that Eich still has the $$ or the goods (or gave them away), Eich has been "unjustly enriched" because he got a benefit (the $$ or the goods) with no reciprocal benefit to Drdan.

If Eich returned the goods, which he has apparently claimed elsewhere but declines to establish with evidence of shipment here, then there has been no "unjust enrichment."


If I may be permitted, and as an old English guy famously observed, reputation is worth more than mere money.

Also, sometimes the person in the position of strength has to be the peacemaker or war continues. An old Chinese guy said that.

Rei and Gi.
 
No need for an E-mail RDT, here is my opinion:
You could not care less about Dan or Kyle. This is simply been an opportunity to blast a certain forum and it's members. I believe your ulterior motive is to discredit that forum and the Dan/Kyle issue opened the door for you.

Again, this is my opinion, give it whatever weight you wish. You are attempting to paint an entire forum with one brush, a brush of dishonor, discredit, and lack of integrity. There are some awesome people over there, many I have always called "Good friends I have never met" [and will continue to do so]. They will go out of their way to help, give you their last dollar from their wallet, and never end a friendship based on what someone else says. Of course there are a few who do not fit into the above catagory. There are a few who throw the words friend and brother around and use them like a light, turned off and on when advised to. There are few who make judgements and form opinion based on consensus but that is NO different than here!!!

So RDT, you need to get over being banned and move on. There are those there who might be able to influence Kyle and who might be able to sway him towards posting here or maybe paying Dan, BUT the forum as an entity has zero control over this, zero responsibility for this, and should not be your target If you are truly supporting Dan then it is Kyle who is your target for anger, not that forum.

Disclaimer..................................My opinion only and my opinion only :D
 
Mr. Linton,

I guess I'm coming at it from the perspective that Kyle should not be obligated to damage himself in order to reverse the deal either.

Which puts us at impasse, no one wins.
 
I could see Eich keeping a "deposit" or a "restocking fee" of some sort because of the trouble to attempt to do all this, but I cant see keeping all of it.
 
wolfmann601 said:
No need for an E-mail RDT, here is my opinion:
You could not care less about Dan or Kyle. This is simply been an opportunity to blast a certain forum and it's members. I believe your ulterior motive is to discredit that forum and the Dan/Kyle issue opened the door for you.

Again, this is my opinion, give it whatever weight you wish. You are attempting to paint an entire forum with one brush, a brush of dishonor, discredit, and lack of integrity. There are so awesome people over there, many I have always called "Good friends I have never met" [and will continue to do so]. They will go out of their way to help, give you their last dollar from their wallet, and never end a friendship based on what someone else says. Of course there are a few who do not fit into the above catagory. There are a few who throw the words friend and brother around and use them like a light, turned off and on when advised to. There are few who make judgements and form opinion based on consensus but that is NO different than here!!!

So RDT, you need to get over being banned and move on. There are those there who might be able to influence Kyle and who might be able to sway him towards posting here or maybe paying Dan, BUT the forum as an entity has zero control over this, zero responsibility for this, and should not be your target If you are truly supporting Dan then it is Kyle who is your target for anger, not that forum.

Disclaimer..................................My opinion only and my opinion only :D
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I think Ira has put it very eloquently, and quite simply, and I whoeheartedly agree. This thread is about Kyle, and Dan resolving their transaction. The ball is in Kyle's court as of now, and like I said earlier; he can contact Dan off the forum, and get it worked out. When that happens, and we are notified, this thread gets locked down.

RDT, I'm going to ask you nicely not to post in this thread any longer. What you are posting is counterproductive, and in all honesty has nothing to do with the issue being discussed . Please heed my advice, so I don't have to take further action. If you'd like to discuss it further, please feel free to email me or Cougar.

Let's get back to the subject at hand, folks.

Thanks.
 
maestrodawg1 said:
Mr. Linton,

I guess I'm coming at it from the perspective that Kyle should not be obligated to damage himself in order to reverse the deal either.

Which puts us at impasse.
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In what way would he be damaging himself? He has been paid for the materials. He loses nothing in supplying them to Dan. He is not damaged at all.

As to earlier points you raised; misappropriation just means to appropriate wrongly. The timeframe for doing the work was ended when the knife was returned. I doubt that there was an opt out/cancellation clause in place. I have never had one with any maker that I have dealt with. It has always been told to me that at any time before the work was started I could cancel the order. I have never been asked to pay for materials that could be used to do another job, or for tools needed to the work.

Kyle stated in his last post that he was going to contact Dan and work out something as far as the materials was concerned. It does not appear that this has been done. This could all be solved by Kyle doing what he posted he would do.

Even if Kyle has sent the materials, if they didn't get to Dan then Kyle should replace them. Hopefully Kyle didn't just send them parcel post with no way of confirming if they had been delivered or not. That is not a wise thing to do, because he will have no proof that Dan or his go beteween in the US ever got the materials. However, knowing the US contact, I guaranty that he would not lie about receiving the materials. I don't know Dan, other than from this forum and from emails he sent, but I doubt very much that he would lie about this either.

It is well past time for Kyle to get over his anger with Dan and do something constructive to put an end to this mess. He is the only one that can do so. The rest of us can beat each other up forever. it's not going to accomplish anything.
 
rdt,
i dont really care where this goes between kyle and dan, its their beef.
i figured if you have the right to but into another persons business and bring up things that are not for your ears, then i would pipe in to.

as to the knife issue, i saw the title of knife maker below your name and it should be above it. i mean come on, you cant really call those things knives? my uncle can grind a better toothbrush on a cement floor in the pen.
-c
someone really needs to close this thread. i will not post anymore to it as i dont have anything to contribute to the actual thread title
 
Keith,

You are incorrect on your definition of misappropriation in the context of a legal crime. You are alleging that Kyle is a thief. He isn't under a legal definition of the word. If you use the broader definition of the word then I understand where you using it to interpret the situation. That's neither here nor there though.

To answer your other question in very simplistic terms, Kyle's time is just as or more valuabe than money. If he has wasted time in this deal that translates to wasted productivity and that translates to lost wages. If Kyle put any time into this deal and the deal fell through then he would be at a loss (or already is) because Dan canceled the order and simply gave everything back. There are other factors that could be articulated but I don't expect an economic analysis would be welcome right now.

I'm just trying to point out that there are 2 sides (in this case it seems like a million) to every story. I'm tired of everyone trying to place blame and demand recitification. Unfortunately I see bith Dan AND Kyle at a loss here. Throw in bad feelings over this whole mess and you get what I said earlier, impasse. No one wins. You and I certainly aren't "winning", are we?

On the other hand I would think that there would be some type of middle ground that could be reached. Any ideas?
 
Code 3 and Cougar, if you all really feel that way then fine. However, things like what Clayton has been saying and others are what is really counter productive. I want this solved and I want Dan's money back. It's right and if that makes me wrong only because I have had past beef with Kyle so be it. Heck just about every person here who's been banned has had past beef with someone there so who's to say what the difference between any of us is. Now wolfman, you have apoint. I have NEVER been anything but 100% honest about my intentions here, my empathy for Dan's situation and my past feelings. So the dead horse is beat. However, am I mistaken or weren't you banned too? and apparently targetted? Boy O' boy and only 2 people have emailed me so far with good clear and civil responses. Okay kids, go sling more mud and that's what I am supposed to be doing huh? Kyle pays and this goes away. It's so easy.
 
Ok RDT per your request here is the email I sent you earlier sans what you asked me to keep out:

Richard,

I am not an impartial person. But if you don't mind I'd like you to read this anyway.

Dan and Kyle had a contract between themselves. It fell apart. Now the issue is rectification. You are siding on Dan's behalf. That's OK because we all have our positions.

Now I'd like to put up an example to you. If I place a knife order to you and put down money, there are two expectations. I'm gonna get a knife and your gonna get some money. Now if I back out of the deal, lets just say because for the sake of arguement, I think your ugly (I really would know I've never met you in person :D ), then we have a problem. You have spent time obtaining materials making a design, maybe even putting in some physical labor into it. Your out your time at a minimum and you know far more than I that time is money and wasted time is lost money. You have the money and the materials. So how do you solve it so that you aren't taking a loss or the loss is minimized for you, or the loss is shared between you and me.

That's really where I think we are at. There are no easy solutions. Kyle isn't a thief nor is Dan nor are you nor am I. And now that there has been so much negative things said that I really doubt there will be a peaceful solution where the damage both to DrDan and Kyle can be minimized.

You always bring your previous experiences to the table in a current situation such as this. You wouldn't/couldn't say be an impartial juror in this case, yes? Think of it like that.

I am not trying to persuade you towards any side because I think your mind is made up. I still like your knives.

Andy
 
maestrodawg1 said:
. . .
To answer your other question in very simplistic terms, Kyle's time is just as or more valuabe than money. If he has wasted time in this deal that translates to wasted productivity and that translates to lost wages. If Kyle put any time into this deal and the deal fell through then he would be at a loss (or already is) because Dan canceled the order and simply gave everything back. There are other factors that could be articulated but I don't expect an economic analysis would be welcome right now.

I'm just trying to point out that there are 2 sides (in this case it seems like a million) to every story. I'm tired of everyone trying to place blame and demand recitification. Unfortunately I see bith Dan AND Kyle at a loss here. Throw in bad feelings over this whole mess and you get what I said earlier, impasse. No one wins. You and I certainly aren't "winning", are we?

On the other hand I would think that there would be some type of middle ground that could be reached. Any ideas?
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If, as is not disputed, the parties mutually agreed to rescind the knife-decorating deal, then, under the law of most states, including Nevada, each side bears his own losses unless was specifically agreed otherwise. Both sides "wasted" time. Indeed, it is not disputed that Drdan agreed to Eich's demand that he pay for the supplies/tools defore the knife would be returned in fact.

There has been no claim by, or on behalf of, Eich to this point in time that the payment "for" supplies/tools was agreed to as some sort of compensation to Eich for lost time. The understanding we have heard about was that the payment was to make Eich whole - prevent him from eating the cost of supplies/tools specially obtained to carry out his part of the now-rescinded deal.


Of course there are two sides. Each person is free to decide which side he accepts and/or supports for whatever reason(s) seem good and sufficient to him.

The thread some many pages ago became a demand not for compensation to Drdan but for information that would verify the claim that the supplies/tools were shipped to Drdan. That information has not been forthcoming so far as I can tell from merely reading the posts here.

Please correct me if I am mistaken about the facts.
 
RDT said:
Co . Now wolfman, you have apoint.. However, am I mistaken or weren't you banned too? .
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You are mistaken, I have not [yet] been banned.

RDT, you asked for an opinion no matter how brutal and I gave you my opinion. Nothing more...............

I do hope that rather than have this thread be BTTT'd and posted in for Months to come, Kyle and Dan will have a meeting of the minds and resolve this.
 
RDT said:
Code 3 and Cougar, if you all really feel that way then fine.
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but still.....you continue. Just can't seem to shut it down can you? You're not going to achieve the retribution you're so desperately searching for at someone else's expense.
 
sucks2.jpg
:( (900 woo-hoo)
 
Rhesus Feces said:
sucks2.jpg
:( (900 woo-hoo)
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:D That's the best post there has been in this thread. . . . .in DAYS ! :D




I'd be happy to dole out tampax/tampons. . . .but. . . .in a situation like this. . .torniquetts would be more appropriate ! :rolleyes:
 
Wolfmann, I see. Okay then and you are correct I did ask for it. timmer, I am asking questions and looking for answers to every question. Those being am I correct to believe that Kyle is wrong and Dan should be paid? Prove to me otherwise regardless of my past dispute with Kyle. I have always pushed the agenda of Dan before me here, always. Unless of course attacked by those who think otherwise. So timmer I keep on because no one has answered any questions. The only people I see trying besides myself are maestrodawg (thanks for the email you have a good stance) and Tombstone, to mention but two. Everyone else is piling on top of one another and so have I but only in defense. I have the right to speak in my behalf and WILL.
maestrodawg has the best argument yet and something I was willing to hear. He's a credit to that site and this one for being a gentleman unlike many here who've started and continue to irritate the situation by defaming others and resorting to schoolyard antics. Now if the moderators want to shut me down because of this, fine. I await their decision. I will abide by it. But I say, wouldn't those who feel Kyle in the right have won by that? That at least one consistant voice in favor of Dan has now been silenced. I wager that there will be no finality to this issue and keeping people from speaking up is exactly what some people want. Til I hear anything from the moderators directly I won't post. Sorry Dan...good luck. It's not my choice to leave and any of my critics are not responsible either. It's apparently now the moderators decision and I have no rights here though I pay.
 
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