Uses of a Tanto.

ASBOB said:
I'd like to go back to the OP's more expansive question of uses of the tanto.

I don't plan on using my knife for sd, or for removing paint. I just open letters and packages and perform basis household chores. The American tanto interests me, and I may get one as an experiment, but I thought I would ask here first: for general use, how does the American tanto fare as opposed to the standard clip point?
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for a tool it's very useful. clip point just doesn't give you the same surface area for general cutting tasks that a straight edge does. curved better for carving meat.
 
whitefox said:
How well does a Tanto fair up in outdoor survival or urban survival, as well as a self defense weapon?

What do you like about em? What do you feel they excel in, as well as lack?

May it be fixed blade or a folder of some form.
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Tan-to by name is tan - short to - sword. Small sword. It has nothing to do with tip shape. In US it was introduced by Cold Steel as special tip which best for "armor penetration", which has nothing to do with Japanese or any other history (in Europe where steel armor was in use to penetrate it were used thin daggers with triangular cross section).

Only Japanese knife which has this "Tanto" tip is Unagasaki - or eel knifes, knife to prepare eel. I think this is only what this shape is good for. Everything else if creation o marketing drons.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
Tan-to by name is tan - short to - sword. Small sword. It has nothing to do with tip shape. In US it was introduced by Cold Steel as special tip which best for "armor penetration", which has nothing to do with Japanese or any other history (in Europe where steel armor was in use to penetrate it were used thin daggers with triangular cross section).

Only Japanese knife which has this "Tanto" tip is Unagasaki - or eel knifes, knife to prepare eel. I think this is only what this shape is good for. Everything else if creation o marketing drons.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Well said Vassili. :D
 
mat_890 said:
I'm pretty sure Cold Steel did a penetration test using the american tanto, traditional tanto, and drop point blade styles. It looked pretty reliable and found that the american tanto faired better.
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it is Cold Steel, of course they are going to make it look like their american tanto faired better.

Personally I would take Elwood's opinion over Lynn's
 
RayseM said:
I am waiting on my first "americanized tanto" by coolhandluke4 today http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=200079&stc=1&d=1300887080 and though I have no definite purpose in mind I'm looking forward to figuring out how such a knife will be best put to use. It certainly looks like it will do something very well. :) I've been glad to have this thread as a timely source of info.
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What's the blade steel on your new tanto knife - if you know RayseM? :)
 
I always considered the tanto shape to be more of a marketing gimmick. As a style for a pure combat tool (such as the swords and knives the samurai carried) it may have merit for piercing armor, but the Europeans killed each other just fine without it. I agree that there are two types - American and Japanese. If I were to pick one, it would be the Japanese for its potentially more utility in day-to-day chores. The American style is hard to sharpen effectively in the field and doesn't lend itself to all around utility use.
 
Nternal said:
...I am finding some discrepancy in this thread..some of you guys say you shouldn't believe a coldsteel video but then believe a james williams video..and even more strange you claim the coldsteel tanto video is unrealistic because it's a static target they are stabbing...but yet a picture of james williams stabbing a static sheet of wood is more credible.Then there is talk of stabbing static pig carcasses and so on..
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The coldsteel videos are just demonstrating how strong the tip is on their western-tanto knives, which mostly has to do with the more obtuse grind: more metal = more support, which is great if tip-strength is what you need... but you are right that the thinner tip is the better penetrator, and all claims to the contrary by coldsteel or anyone else is false - that's what not to believe. The williams demonstration was to reinforce this - the narrow, curving design is what makes the hissatsu an efficient killing tool.
For stabbing into a variety of materials, coldsteel does do that with all sorts of blade-styles in their videos. The point about solid surfaces was made simply to remind people that when using a knife in combat the stabbed-target is rarely a flat, solid, stationary object. Lynn stabbing and slicing hanging chunks of meat is a better approximation... he just needs to dress it in clothing with kevlar armor, set it in random motion, and give it the ability to fight back ;):D

I like the coldsteel videos, and I especially agree with the earlier post about the grimaces :mad: :p :D
 
cziv said:
What's the blade steel on your new tanto knife - if you know RayseM? :)
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Luke has listed it as hollow ground 1/8" 1095. Won't be a wrecking bar of a knife but I won't be wrecking anything - or anyone - with it anyway.
 
chiral.grolim said:
The coldsteel videos are just demonstrating how strong the tip is on their western-tanto knives, which mostly has to do with the more obtuse grind: more metal = more support, which is great if tip-strength is what you need... but you are right that the thinner tip is the better penetrator, and all claims to the contrary by coldsteel or anyone else is false - that's what not to believe. The williams demonstration was to reinforce this - the narrow, curving design is what makes the hissatsu an efficient killing tool.
For stabbing into a variety of materials, coldsteel does do that with all sorts of blade-styles in their videos. The point about solid surfaces was made simply to remind people that when using a knife in combat the stabbed-target is rarely a flat, solid, stationary object. Lynn stabbing and slicing hanging chunks of meat is a better approximation... he just needs to dress it in clothing with kevlar armor, set it in random motion, and give it the ability to fight back ;):D

I like the coldsteel videos, and I especially agree with the earlier post about the grimaces :mad: :p :D
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Cool, I see what your saying.
 
I keep seeing people bringing up the point of stabbing or slashing a dynamic target.It's an obvious concern and is of utmost importance but..I'm a little puzzled of how it is being pointed out. Are some people implying that a certain point would penetrate a moving target better than a stationary one? I'm just maybe not getting it. Not to get off topic but I'm seeing it this way. If we were to have two boxers punch a freestanding apparatus that measured the power/PSI of there punches..If boxer A had a weaker punch or equal to boxer B are you implying that he could still punch harder at a dynamic target than boxer B? Anybody that has ever sparred knows that they are never gonna get as good a shot on a person as on a bag much less a better one( how is that even possible?). I'm just speaking from some of posts undermining the capabilities of the tanto in the coldsteel video where they tests the three knives.Yeah those tests are done on static targets but all three knives are given the same exact tests .I just think those knives and any knife would perform even more poorly on a moving target.
 
Nternal said:
I keep seeing people bringing up the point of stabbing or slashing a dynamic target.It's an obvious concern and is of utmost importance but..I'm a little puzzled of how it is being pointed out. Are some people implying that a certain point would penetrate a moving target better than a stationary one? I'm just maybe not getting it. Not to get off topic but I'm seeing it this way. If we were to have two boxers punch a freestanding apparatus that measured the power/PSI of there punches..If boxer A had a weaker punch or equal to boxer B are you implying that he could still punch harder at a dynamic target than boxer B? Anybody that has ever sparred knows that they are never gonna get as good a shot on a person as on a bag much less a better one( how is that even possible?). I'm just speaking from some of posts undermining the capabilities of the tanto in the coldsteel video where they tests the three knives.Yeah those tests are done on static targets but all three knives are given the same exact tests .I just think those knives and any knife would perform even more poorly on a moving target.
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I agree and would extrapolate your conclusion to include a stab with other tips as well. :)
 
nozh2002 said:
Tan-to by name is tan - short to - sword. Small sword. It has nothing to do with tip shape. In US it was introduced by Cold Steel as special tip which best for "armor penetration", which has nothing to do with Japanese or any other history (in Europe where steel armor was in use to penetrate it were used thin daggers with triangular cross section).
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Except that the "Americanized" tanto was introduced by knifemaker Bob Lum before LT stole the design for Cold Steel. CS didn't introduce anything that wasn't stolen or taken from other designers. It was never marketed as an armor piercing tip until LT created his marketing hype for it.
 
CWL said:
Except that the "Americanized" tanto was introduced by knifemaker Bob Lum before LT stole the design for Cold Steel. CS didn't introduce anything that wasn't stolen or taken from other designers. It was never marketed as an armor piercing tip until LT created his marketing hype for it.
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Well, in any case this tip shape has nothing to do with Japanese sword tradition. Of course for thousand years of Japanese history you may find few rare swords with tip similar to that. But it is very rare.

Here best source of info on Nihhon-To (Japanese swords)

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/styles.html

Thanks, Vassili.
 
RandomAyes said:
I believe some penetration variables have little to do with tantos per se. For testing I used sheets of cardboard. They are not terribly realistic approximations of any particular target, but they do offer a quick and repeatable way of comparing two knives. I did not use a tension scale or anything scientific, just my own sense of touch and a whole lot of cardboard. I did both full-speed jabs and slow, careful shove-ins. My perceived results were pretty much right in line with common sense, but I feel it's still worth mentioning.

1. Thicker knives needed more force to penetrate to a given depth compared to thinner knives. A 1/4" thick knife proved to be relatively sluggish even though it was deeply swedged on top (but not sharpened).

2. Knives with rougher finishes required more force to penetrate to a given depth compared to knives of similar geometry having highly polished finishes. Powder coatings may prevent rust, and as-forged finishes may look cool, but they do add friction especially when the knife already has an abrupt transition in thickness (i.e. undergoes a wedging action)

3. Spine shape has an effect on the force required to penetrate to a given depth. Some clip points had a tendency to hang up where the clip ends and the straightaway begins. The more abrupt or prominent the transition, the more it hung up. On this note, you might be interested in re-watching the Cold Steel Espada video (Espadas have very prominent clip/spine transition areas). Watch the part when they stab a car hood and you may see & hear a momentary hangup when the clip is trying to push through the sheet metal.

I'm no operator. I'll never use a knife as a weapon (God willing). I admit that poking slits in cardboard is a far cry from real world terminal performance. I just thought it was a good idea to at least try to test it in some way.
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Very good observations, I'm going to watch that cold steel video.
I never realized that the blade finish does add friction to the equation. I'm going to test some other knives out.

Good post, good info. Thanks
 
No doubt that chisel will do better then regular knife it you need not really penetrate, but rather do some wide cuts like making round hole in some thin metal - cans or car doors, when you hammer several wide cuts with tip... Chisel has straight edge faced surface and when you hammer it all impact goes to cut.

Some so called "Tanto" has closer to chisel then average knife (and some has not), but if you take Finnish Leuku - it also has almost chisel like tip with really thick edge there. Also CRTK M1 has same tip and so this has really not too much to do with "Tanto" tip.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I'd like to do your test with Rick Hinderer's spanto tip RandomAyes. It has a very nice compromise of the tanto point but it's quite thick which might be a comfort if you had to stab with it and met with resistance or something hard.

I did notice that in hand, the blade seems to be angled slightly downward. Time to break out the sheets of cardboard. :D
 
Has anyone used the secondary point of an American tanto on cardboard ? I did some very un-scientific tests in my garage, on hanging cardboard. They were the flicking with the front portion of the blade tests. Not stabbing with the tip tests. To me, the tanto won every time. The others did cut the cardboard, but with just a quick flick, with all the force concentrated on the secondary point was the only one that penetrated through the cardboard. Has anyone else done this & had different results ? I have no idea how thick the cardboard was, but my guess was 1/8"-1/4" thick.
Maybe this would not even have a bearing on how it would do on a person, IDK ? Was this a worthless test ? Thoughts ?
 
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