Views on TEOTWAWKI: US vs. Canadiens (& Others)

[Skimo]

I see several issues with TEOTWAWKI, a simple history lesson.

USSR crumbles, arms are sold.

Nations play political games in terms of warfare. Guerrilla or otherwise.

Riots are bad, very bad, sure chances of it happening in a rural area aren't as likely as a densely populated city, BUT even some chaos in a smaller city or town is cause for greater alarm.

It also comes back a little bit to the possibility of nuclear bombs either high yield or dirty, several countries within the last decade have been close to nuclear armament.

God forbid N. Korea does anything bad enough to incite the US into open warfare, that would in my opinion have about a 5% chance of ending with nuclear action.

Lets not forget that the US has been in constant warfare (with tiny breaks) for more than a generation. At least a dozen, some smaller and less media "worthy" but always there.

During my military career that started a week after 9/11 we were every where, and if you don't think that it doesn't trickle out to family, friends and co-workers for more than a generation, well, there's a reason.

I think a lot of people really want to believe that there's no way it could ever happen here (where ever your here may be) but it can, it doesn't matter how it starts it could be bombings or Krakatoa II or a meteor/comet, whatever the cause is is nearly insignificant to the fact that it was only the catalyst for the change.

What matters when millions of people in a city lose power, lose water, lose the facade of the police being a deterrent, when people need water and stores have water.

I'll tell you right now it might be short and restless or long and weary, but not having a plan is the same as not buying life insurance when you have little kids while you juggle chainsaws while tightrope walking without a net.

I know my last statement may sound over the top, but how many people in your city die every year from anything besides old age?

To end my little rant.

I think it can be summed up in one question, all of it.

Why do you lock your doors at night?


Last bit, for those of you that live in those great neighborhoods where you don't lock your doors, I hope that never has to change.

 

[Toucan Oasis]

I won't deign to speak for anyone else.

Speaking for myself, here in the U.S., I find this end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it/breakdown-of-society stuff extremely unlikely, and silly to obsess over. Planning for that doesn't make much sense to me.

I do think that significant localized scenarios, with natural disasters, evacuations, people misbehaving, etc., could happen (such as happened in New Orleans with Hurricane Katrina and the flooding). I also think that the U.S. government will eventually fall apart – nothing lasts forever. I doubt it will happen in my lifetime, though sometimes it does seem like the gov's actions are hastening it. The possibility of a serious monetary crisis, with hyperinflation, etc., seems possible, because of great irresponsibility on many levels by many people. I still doubt that would bring about the breakdown of society, the need for evacuation, and so on. I seriously doubt a scenario will occur that would make it sensible for me to evacuate my home, travel on foot by stealth to my secret hideout, and defend against the hordes with my huge stockpile of ammunition.

If mass rebellion occurs, I think it is more likely to take other forms than fighting in the streets.

Overall, I'm fairly optimistic about the future. I do think pernicious governance is a serious problem, and that – here in the U.S., right now – it's getting worse. However, I don't believe the government is the end-all-be-all force of power, and I think stronger forces for good are eclipsing bad state behavior, and making the state less relevant. In most other ways, the future looks bright, to me.

When I prepare for survival, I prepare more for emergency wilderness survival – something like getting lost or breaking my leg or whatever, when I'm out hiking or climbing or such. I'm not stockpiling ammo to defend against the zombie hordes in the apocalypse. I do try to also be ready for survival situations involving earthquakes, bush fires, etc., but I disregard the total collapse of society scenarios. I don't see them as plausible.

I am much more interested in the outdoor skills and emergency wilderness survival aspects of this forum, than the TEOTWAWKI silliness.

Hey ! That's exactly what my inlaws parents said ! Till they came to the door and blew everyones heads off except for MIL , Ukranian and FIL, Polish.They were of " working age" the others were "liabilities". They met at "camp" She peeled potatoes and he made/repaired shoes and fabric/leather.

The difference is that a foreign entity hauled them off. In the US it'll be your very own.
"Just following orders sir"

Think about it. Ya got a bunch of steroided out Nazi's running around tazering 10 year old girls, 70 year old ladies.Jeez.
" Know thy enemy"

I had 2 excellent businesses, that are still doing excellent, and a damn nice farm.
I got out of dodge, out of dollars and out of US stocks.Just in time.
It's a whole lot different looking in from the outside.

 

[Toucan Oasis]

Here's something someone just sent me.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/casey/casey21.1.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16236

 

[kgd]

Really, I don't think it is an American vs. Canadian thing. My wife is American and my kids are duel citizens. My wife is as Canadian as I am. Her family drives me nuts, but they hold very similar attitudes to me. I think the urbanization vs. rural is closer. I don't really live in rural, more like suburbia, but we live in a community where for most of the time the doors are unlocked. I live in a community where I can knock on any of my neighbhors doors and have a frank discussion about what an asswipe their kid is turning out to be and while it won't make them none to happy to hear it, they will listen and ask where a bridge can be made.

Its very easy to talk about the meek and the weak and the unskilled. Unfortunately, society tends to make it easy for folks to fall into complacency. Yet, on the other hand the learning curve isn't so steep that I believe most people when given an opportunity to adapt are capable of adapting. We just simply need to learn the new set of rules to live under.

I guess where I disagree with this discussion is this running idea is that there will be an overexploited and dominant class and somehow these positions will become static and set by a few simple variables like who has food stores or guns or gosh forbid they disappeared into the forest at the right time. I guess my view is one that the exploited and dominant are likely to be ones that trade places and do so many times. I simply question the assumption that the violent fellows will actually be able to sustain any power for any real duration. They might find their skills to be useful by strong communities, and they might become hired hands, but I don't think they will become a power in unto themselves nor natural leaders because of these skillsets.

What it boils down to is that I have some discussions about these kinds of scenarios with a couple of friends. My intention really isn't to bug-out per se, but I have a safe place where a few of us are willing to congregate and where there is some access to food and it is far enough from urban centres to be of notice. My number one thing in a TEOTWAWKI would be to get there are start formulating a stronger community and strong linkages. I'm not against having some firearms and ammo at least some of us of that little grouping have those things. I just see this as one of a list, and rather a ways down on the list, of things that need to be done and organized.

So top of my list are things like.

1) Forging real relationships with other family-groups to have discussions about the possibility of such events. This is actually really hard to do while being serious at not inebriated. I'm not really finished with this one yet. There are a lot of complexities to this task. It isn't just about me, its about my wife and children. Its about my parents. Where do you draw the line between extended family, the old, the sick, the young? Where do your friends draw that line?

2) Safe place. I'm working on this one as part of 3 potential spots that involve right now privately owned lands with one or more of (1) as owners. After you go from safe place, then you have to really start asking things about resources, what can be collected, stored, how do you deal with the basics.

3) The Bug-out plan and indicators of societal breakdown. This is the toughest thing to formulate. When do you get out of dodge? When do you decide to slough off your societal duties? Getting the timing wrong can be disastrous in either direction. Bugging out too soon, and if TEOTWAWKI doesn't actually happen can lead to your loss of employment but more importantly compromise the relationships forged in (1). Chicken-little will quickly loose any respect and you may jeopardize it all. Not recognizing the end when it does happens means you have to roll the dice with kaos and that is a game of randomness that I don't really want to play.

....somewhere around item 50 there will be get guns and ammo and think about what kinds of guns etc....For now, the 12 guage and .22 will probably be sufficient. A good Bow - I'd like to get into that!

 

[Gaurdian_A1]

I am 5 min away from escaping the crowds should anything undesireable happen..i have my routes planned out and i have alternate routes plnned if my primary is un available..ive been living in the bush all my life, been hunting all my life and have been fishing all my life, ive always been taught how to live in the wilderness with just whats in my pockets ( always a knife ) since i was very young and have inproved on my knowledge since then and practice regularely. I study the medicinal and fod uses for different plants and trees.

If SHTF i think that in every town in the states and canada there would be some inward fighting...why you ask? because you will have millions of people who are scared for thier lives, protecting what they own and protecting thier families trying to get out of the hot zone..A great percentage of us will be carrying firearms...do the math..the arguements,the looting, the mayhem, the madness.

In the event of an end of the world scenario, our biggest enemy is going to be ourseleves. Human beings. But should a foreign enemy set foot on north america to wage war, we will all fight for the cause...all of us...Americans and Canadians alike.

We Canadians seem much more passive than Americans on this subject, but in the end, we are all prepaired to survive whatever may happen...is that not what we are all about?

Being prepaired is only going to save your life and possibly many other lives also...it is very important to prepair for the worst..weather it comes or not.

 

[seth]

where i live, its pretty hard to get a registered firearm, and as such, i dont have any ammo or guns stockpiled.. i also dont have a whole set of BOB's laying around, ready for any eventuality, i dont even have a few months of food stockpiled... what i do have however is the knowledge to survive in the wild here for weeks-months on end, with nothing more than a knife. i know whats edible, i know where to try and find water, i know how to start a fire, i know how to make a bow, i know how to catch fish/crayfish/crabs.. because in my opinion, the ONLY way to be prepared for any eventuality is to have the knowledge needed to survive for an undermined period of time on nothing more than what you may have in your pockets.

id much rather be able to get 5 or 6 chickens than a rifle, and id rather a couple seeds to plant than a box of ammo...

 

[saxon]

nevermind

 

[Rick Marchand]

When I go to a restaurant for breakfast, I like pancakes with maple syrup and real bacon (not Canadian bacon... that's ham) I drink orange juice even though the tang of it doesn't sit right with the sweet syrup. I get past that momentary discomfort and enjoy pulpy goodness. Most people have milk with pancakes but that gives me gas. I don't need to be like everybody else. If someone took my pancakes away I would be sad... possibly even angry... but in the end, I would just probably eat french toast or waffles.... because I like them very much, too.

I hope my position on this is clear.

Rick

 

[PrimitiveMan]

I on the other hand would fight whoever tried to take my pancakes,

Not because I can't eat waffles, because they are MY pancakes.

So I guess that is the difference.

Carl-

 

[Rick Marchand]

I on the other hand would fight whoever tried to take my pancakes,

Not because I can't eat waffles, because they are MY pancakes.

So I guess that is the difference.

Carl-

Ahhh... you see... THATS a good way to get kicked out of the restaurant. Then you would be hungry until lunch came around. Or even worse... the other dude breaks your jaw because he's tougher than you, and you are forced to drink through a straw for months. So you can be tough and hungry... or you can be resiliant and well fed.

My son had to sit in the corner at school because he felt the toy he brought to school was HIS toy. He was right... but he was worse off for fighting. I have been trying to teach him that things are just "things" and having fun is more important than being right. Sometimes being right sucks... ask my 4yr old.

 

[PrimitiveMan]

Or maybe I would win and enjoy my breakfast.

I guess I would never know unless I stood up for myself.

BUT, I get your point.

What if they tried to take your sons lunch?

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Ahhh... you see... THATS a good way to get kicked of of the restaurant. Then you would be hungry until lunch came around. Or even worse... the other dude breaks your jaw because he's tougher than you, and you are forced to drink through a straw for months. So you can be tough and hungry... or you can be resiliant and well fed.

My son had to sit in the corner at school because he felt the toy he brought to school was HIS toy. He was right... but he was worse off for fighting. I have been trying to teach him that things are just "things" and having fun is more important than being right. Sometimes being right sucks... ask my 4yr old.

And the American way to look at it is the other guy gets his jaw broken for trying to steal from you rather than get his own. If the restaurant won't kick him out for stealing your pancakes, it won't kick you out for keeping them.

 

[flipe8]

What restaurants are you guys goin' to, anyways??

 

[Rick Marchand]

Or maybe I would win and enjoy my breakfast.

I guess I would never know unless I stood up for myself.

BUT, I get your point.

What if they tried to take your sons lunch?

Yes you MIGHT win... but why take the chance of losing? What if your kids were there with you and hadn't eaten yet. You get kicked out of the restaurant and your kids bellies are empty. You know for a FACT that if you just order another item off the menu, you can enjoy the company of your family.

Or

Maybe your son saw you beat a guy up and thought it was cool. The next time a kid picks on him at school, he takes matters into his own hands and gets really hurt?

I'm not saying there isn't a time to fight for your pancakes... just that it should be a last resort as opposed to a first instinct. especially when there is more at stake than just pancakes.

Rick

I think I'm swaying the topic of this thread... Sorry.

 

[Rotte]

What restaurants are you guys goin' to, anyways??

LOL. Yeah, this is why I make breakfast at home.

And Rick, I think you're on-topic. It was a nice metaphor. And you're right about the bacon thing anyway.

 

[Rick Marchand]

And the American way to look at it is the other guy gets his jaw broken for trying to steal from you rather than get his own. If the restaurant won't kick him out for stealing your pancakes, it won't kick you out for keeping them.

In that respect... the American way would be to hope you're tougher than the other guy.... while the Canadian way would be to hope you're smarter than the other guy?

 

[Rick Marchand]

LOL. Yeah, this is why I make breakfast at home.

And Rick, I think you're on-topic. It was a nice metaphor. And you're right about the bacon thing anyway.

I guess that would be the equivilent to forming a community of folks who can make their own pancakes anytime they want? I like your way of thinking.

 

[Rotte]

I guess that would be the equivilent to forming a community of folks who can make their own pancakes anytime they want? I like your way of thinking.

Sourdough, of course...

 

[Rick Marchand]

Sourdough, of course...

Would you let me in if I brought blueberries and chocolate chips? Cause I read a tutorial on the internet and have been gathering and storing them... and I even know how to propigate plants to make more... forever!

 

[XMP]

I don't think who's tougher is the real question; the real question is whether there are things worth fighting over (and if so what are they). Sure you might not fight if some guy took your pancakes, but you wouldn't just sit there if he hauled your son away from you.