Wanna Help Design The HOG SAR Knife ? ? ? ? . . .

[idahoskunk]

maybe like amy's ash but with a carry bevel package

oh nevermind, on second thought the Sasquatch would just carry her ash away :thumbdn:

.

 

[Dunner]

Jerry, this is outstanding . I have to say the HH with the modded butt you guys did for River 8 might be the ultimate heavy SAR knife. For some it's too much steel but I'm using my SFNO or HOGFSH primarily and they are all great choices here in the wet Pacific Northwest. For this SAR knife (smaller companion, see later post for Heavy SAR blade) here is what I would hope for...

1) Straight spine to the point similar in profile to the FBM but scaled down. Flat top, no swedge allows for the best possible batoning strikes in a smaller package while harvesting fire wood. It also looks sweet with a sabre like that. A penetrator tip would add back penetrating power when splitting the small stuff or drilling as well. This design also creats a nice distal belly which is cool.

2) Sabre grind. Convex is my favorite but a flat primary would work just fine

2) Really broad blade; BATAC like in this regard (GREAT blade profile). 5 1/2" or 6". The shorter side of this lends it to being a nice companion rather than competing for primary steel.

3) .22" is a really nice thickness for a knife of this size. With a really broad blade for it's size, maybe .25 is good.

4) DCH handle would be sweet. Specing the very broad blade comes into play here as I would like (as River 8 mentioned) for the blade to hang below the handle but drop abruptly from the front of the handle sort of like a kitchen knife (just a little more abrupt drop than on the HOG Muk)

5) The nice round/symetrical tang works for me. An extended tang that was flat or semi flat with a hole on centerline for a lanyard would be PERFECT.

That's all

If River 8 and I sound alike on this is because we have discussed it and have drawn it on the dry erase board in his office over and over LOL

 

[imaginefj]

No, crazy grinds. For people who use a knife day in day out it needs to be a shape that can be resharpened.

A pomel for pounding as mentioned above sounds excellent.

Say .25 wide, INFI is no doubt great, but I would not want to lug around too much of it.



(Not to sound like a fruit but a wire breaking notch could be nice)

 

[Guyon]

Jerry, I would help if I had any talent at the task, but my designs never quite seem to take off.

 

[Dunner]

The ASH is an OUTSTANDING SAR knife IMO. Mine will definitely start seeing some training and mission time. They are amazing :thumbup:

 

[Keith_H]

Search and Rescue?

How about this?

 

[WalterDavis]

Well, since the Boss Hog didn't give me a 'You got it!' on the SFNO, I have another idea: How about an old school ratweiler blade (in INFI, of course), .22 thick, with a squared/ rounded SFNO handle or DCH handle. It would be hefty but not heavy, pointy but not delicate, and the handle would allow a variety of grips and hammering if necessary. Oh yeah, it would be big enough to scare the next guy into carrying the load of booze for you!!

 

[Dunner]

And as mentioned... for a heavier SAR carry I would like to see a HHFSH or FAT SFNO BUTTTTTT.... I would want them to have a straight spine a-la-Fusion Battle Mistress. It is so nice to baton on a straight spine versus a drop point. Clips and swedges chew up batons fast. A slightly extended pommel and FLAT would make either of these knives perfect. :thumbup:

A little more curve forward on the rear talon hole on the SFNO would give it some of the retention the Fusion line has too. THAT would be sweet.

On the FSH and SFNO... I like the smaller choil on the BATAC and FBM too. Little things like that make a huge difference to me. Smaller choils on the latter models are better IMO

For most people the size/weight of a FAT SFNO is perfect for heavy carry. Sickos like me River 8 and Bruce Wayne usually roll with the heavy stuff. HH or HOG FSH

 

[El_Toro]

For this knife I'd like to see a remake of the ST Ripper in 3/16" with that new "DCH" style handle!:thumbup:

 

[TurnerIII]

Search and Rescue?

How about this?

Ya know - this one is not a bad idea Maybe fancy up the color choice of the handle - and have a snow/black - camo blade coating .... :thumbup::thumbup:

Ahh heck - make it however and I will buy at least one of them

 

[BruceWayne]

I like Dunner's suggestions...

If it is under 6 inches, it will likely be a companion knife for me as well...it certainly does not have to a bruiser, I just need a bit more chopping and lopping ability in a primary knife. I think the HOGSJTAC is really close.

Having the blade drop a bit below the handle sounds good as well. I recently picked up a BIBB, and while I have not had a chance to use it, it seems like a slightly 'dropped' blade will aid in chopping ablility, without having to add heft.

Another vote for the DCH handle.

 

[Dunner]

Jerry, just to add some context to my design ideas and what we in the Wet NW are doing I thought I would just list our main uses...

1) Limbing... to clear trail or space for breaks, treatment of subject or harvesting small low hanging dead wood for fires and so on.

2) Prying... mainly pitchwood stumps to gain enough "sure thing" combustibles to keep a young fire burning in the rain or "snain".

3) Batoning... splitting arm sized wood down to gain access to dry wood inside and to make kindling. Smaller pieces of wood rot so fast around here you usually have to make your own kindling.

4) Shelter building... I suppose this is a superset of a lot of these other skills. It's rare but we are not allocated helicopters unless a situation is life threatening so at times if we find people in lousy weather we have to hunker down for a while. Even more rarely...it can be over night. Hence our 24 hour pack tests.

5) Splitting... similar to batoning but once you get an arm sized log split into quarters we are usually splitting with the point (batoning pommel) to split the wood further. It's faster than batoning small stuff.

6) Chopping... we often find the best dry wood to be standing dead so we will chop up to a leg (more lower leg than upper ) sized tree if needed.

7) Stylin'... it's why we all carry Busse these days

If you look at pictures of River 8's HHFSH you will see all the wear on the parts of the blade used for these things. The man is a Maestro of survival skills and our team is lucky to have him :thumbup:

 

[spydie54]

Why mess with it..........Just bring back the ST Ripper!!!!!!

Okay, okay if you have to change it just give it some orange G10.

For this knife I'd like to see a remake of the ST Ripper in 3/16" with that new "DCH" style handle!:thumbup:

 

[Dunner]

Guyon, that is a sweet design but with that handle I would have to insist on a guard :thumbup:

 

[aeinfantry]

Search and Rescue?

How about this?

Exactly my thoughts!

1) NARK-like serrations down the spine

2) A blade length between 5.5-7 inches

3)A thickness between .20 and .22

4) BRIGHT G10 HANDLES with a non-mag option (Glow in the Dark? http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=534862)

5)A good Glassbreaker on the butt, similar to the BATAC or ST-56.

6) SPEAR POINT TIP

7) NO RECURVE (It makes field sharpening more challenging)

My $0.02.

 

[Tony G]

I really like all the ideas that these actual SAR guys have:thumbup:

I may buy one just so it looks like I know what I'm doing with a knife

But can I get mine with a butt like Amy's? Not flat like the ones PM likes.

.

 

[Progunner]

Jerry, just to add some context to my design ideas and what we in the Wet NW are doing I thought I would just list our main uses...

1) Limbing... to clear trail or space for breaks, treatment of subject or harvesting small low hanging dead wood for fires and so on.

2) Prying... mainly pitchwood stumps to gain enough "sure thing" combustibles to keep a young fire burning in the rain or "snain".

3) Batoning... splitting arm sized wood down to gain access to dry wood inside and to make kindling. Smaller pieces of wood rot so fast around here you usually have to make your own kindling.

4) Shelter building... I suppose this is a superset of a lot of these other skills. It's rare but we are not allocated helicopters unless a situation is life threatening so at times if we find people in lowsy weather we have to hunker down for a while. Even more rarely...it can be over night. Hence our 24 hour pack tests.

5) Splitting... similar to batoning but once you get an arm sized log split into quarters we are usually splitting with the point (batoning pommel) to split the wood further. It's faster than batoning small stuff.

6) Chopping... we often find the best dry wood to be standing dead so we will chop up to a leg (more lower leg than upper ) sized tree if needed.

7) Stylin'... it's why we all carry Busse these days

If you look at pictures of River 8's HHFSH you will see all the wear on the parts of the blade used for these things. The man is a Maestro of survival skills and our team is lucky to have him :thumbup:

Hey Dunner, if you have a pic of River8's blade, why not put it in here, save Jerry a little looking? Just a thought. Maybe a few shots of it would be good. I am sure you could just cut and paste it in the IMG brackets.

I see many are saying ST Ripper, but would a recurve really be beneficial for this sort of a knife? I am not in the SAR community so I don't know. I can say that the BIBB as was mentioned before packs a cood deal of chopping power in a lighter package. Prehaps using it as a base and grinding the butt flat for a improv hammer and leaving the ZT type swedge off, you could take it up from a spear point to a drop point. Does that make sense? The reduced butt and increased weight at the front sure would make it a lopping blade I would bet.

 

[Dunner]

Agreed PG Here's 8's "Trifecta" kit. It is actually more worn than before so it's harder to tell but not too long ago there was more coating just above the belly. Most use was 2" in front of the choil and the 2" at the point. One more nit picky thing... I would like to have the thumb ramp moved forward. My thumb wants to be farther forward when choking up, using the choil and pushing on the little stuff. Same on the SFNO's thumb ramp. Just ahead of the choil over the working edge is PERFECT imo.

Edited to add: You can see the point used on the SAR Warden for splitting smaller wood fuel as mentioned.

I do like the Stripper sized/shaped blade with the changes you mention Progunner. No swedge, no recurve for this kid

 

[silverdragon33]

Ok--this sounds awesome!

First of all--PLEASE NO SERRATIONS! If I need them, I'll use a spyderco or something.

Squared off pommel for pounding.

Stout tip for prying and batoning. If there is a bit of swedge or something, that does not bother me too much, but it still needs to be not too much of a hinderance to batoning.

Full convex sounds good to me.

If it is 6 in plus, .25 thick, under 6, .22.

Finger guard/ choil area.

Not sure what direction on size you are going...chopping, clearing brush and limbing are all tasks that pop up for us...

I'll second that, but I'd want a 6"-7" blade. I'll also second the SFNO idea . . . .

 

[Greg45]

Agreed PG Here's 8's "Trifecta" kit. It is actually more worn than before so it's harder to tell but not too long ago there was more coating just above the belly. Most use was 2" in front of the choil and the 2" at the point. One more nit picky thing... I would like to have the thumb ramp moved forward. My thumb wants to be farther forward when choking up, using the choil and pushing on the little stuff.

This pic may show the wear spots you're talking about -