WARNING: To NYC Residents & Tourists

To those who asked questions about a fixed blade in your pocket, my personal opinion is that such a knife doesn't necessarily violate any specific provision of the law, it could be considered a dirk -- I think common sense and reasonableness have to factor in.

The spirit of the law is that you can't carry a knife as a weapon, not that certain knives are legal weapons.

As I've said before, I like the idea of carrying a fixed blade because fixed blades are superior tools, generally, and are safer and simpler to operate.

You could also honestly say you carried the fixed blade in an effort to COMPLY with your understanding of the strict rules against locking folders.

BUT . . . ask yourself, if you were a police officer, and you discovered that knife, would you think it was a weapon? (i.e. dirk or "dangerous knife")?

If so, there are grounds for arrest. Consider this when choosing between an AG Russell Woodswalker (friendly little paring knife) and a Strider/Tarani Karambit.

My advice is, let your honest needs and common sense be your guides.

Don't expect to fool anyone with an unpersuasive pretext ("I wear a suit to work, but I really need that custom in the shoulder rig to open letters and cut my bagels up"). Who are you kidding?

My 0.02.

Seth
 
sliplock has it right.....if it looks like a weapon than it will be viewed that way. You can argue that it is not a gravity knife, switchblade or other defined violation, but the "dangerous knife" term in the Penal Law leaves a lot up to opinion.....The thing I dislike the most is that almost every store in NY that sells knives clearly sells ones that flick open, yet they are rarely brothered ( a few times but not often) and yet the guy who buys a Kershaw Storm II at Walmart for $30 and has an officer arrest him for carrying a gravity knife is in no way getting a fair shake, but it happens often....The customer gets a serious criminal record and Walmart makes a few bucks......
 
I moved from California to NYC a little over a year ago(originally from the south). I work in a retail store. That retail store provides it's employees with box cutting utility knives(you know the crappy orange break off blade type) well I opted to buy(from the same store) a functional utility knife with replaceable blades and a pocket clip so I wouldn't dull my own knives on boxes, ropes, etc. Blade length of 1 1/2" LOL. Well, one day I had just gotten off work and was going home when I see a police cruiser cram packed with NYPD(reminded me of one of those clown cars) pull a U turn from the opposite side of the road to pull up next to me as I was walking. I paused as I, for a second, thought that maybe I was the subject of their interest. But I thought "nah, must be something else their interested in."

Nope. All four get out of the cruiser and one says "Excuse me sir!".
I turn and immediately say "Yes?" They proceed to surround me, two to the left and two to the right. I keep motionless and probably looked dumbfounded because I had no clue why this NYPD platoon was acting so aggressively. The
leader of the pack asked me for my ID but as soon as I reached for my wallet
He said "Stop!" (They all put their hands on their guns) "Whats that in your pocket?" Pointing to the knife clip. I said,
"it's a knife clip." He then pulled the knife out of my pocket all the while palming his side arm. He went on to tell me that he could arrest me for having a knife in public but seeing my California ID he said this is my warning and how its different here in New York, blah, blah.

He let me off easy I guess.

About 6 months ago we had a dollar cab try to run us into oncoming traffic. When I told him to piss off he slammed on his brakes in front of us, got out and approached my girlfriends side of the car. I got out and asked him what the #*%! is wrong with him. He mumbled some jibberish. I told him to #*%! off and prepared for a fight. He went back to his dollar van/cab, I got back into the car, he got back out of his van and threw a ROCK that smashed my girlfriends side of the windshield. I got back out and went at the van but he was peeling out. We called 911. We saw FIVE different patrol cars cruise by(at different times and not in any hurry) we tried to flag each down but each ignored us. 45 minutes later OUR VERY OWN patrol car rolls up. They won't even get out of their car! Take our report and leave.

We got the vans license plate and description. The next day I call the number the responding? officers gave us and the detective tells us that they have no record of that plate. I told him about those little special NYPD cameras on the corner that the incident took place and every other corner up and down the avenue. He had nothing on record! No further response!

This is why you don't need to protect yourself. The NYPD is on the job!

If I had a cop on my hip I wouldn't need a gun!
 
Recently I was arrested in the LES for carrying a pocket knife, entirely within the limits of the law *except* that the police officer was able to open it by flipping it open. Apparently this makes the knife a "gravity knife" and thereby a weapon. Now I don't consider myself an activist but I am more interested in fighting this than just trying to get it dropped or a sentence deferred. I have thought about applying for a NYC handgun carry license/permit, joining the NRA, and already have a letter from Benchmade and AKTI stating that they do not believe the knife should be considered under the "gravity knife" definition.

One other thing notable within the letter of the law is that I am a member of the technical staff for several small theater groups in NYC however proof of that can only really be summarized by letters from the organizers. I don't know of any theater groups that actually have membership cards or paperwork.

Does anyone have any additional recommendations or ideas that might allow for this case against me to be useful to anyone in a similar situation?

Regards,
IC
 
Where is LES ? What where you charged with ( if in NYC) ? Was a summons issued or where you actually booked and printed? The theater group part only includes the NYC Admin Code and it is while performing only. Did the officer charge you with a violation of NYPL 265?
 
Where is LES ?

I was arrested on Ave A. just south of 7th. (apparently in the 7th precinct but arrested by plain clothes Borough officers). I believe this falls within the Lower East Side.

What where you charged with ( if in NYC) ?

I believe I was charged with carrying a weapon however I have requested the booking documents and have not yet received them.

Was a summons issued or where you actually booked and printed?

I was booked and spent a total of 25 hours in "The Toombs" before seeing a judge and having a hearing set for July 16th.

The theater group part only includes the NYC Admin Code and it is while performing only. Did the officer charge you with a violation of NYPL 265?

I have actually been charged and seen a night court Judge. Again I am not certain of the exact charges however my lawyer did ask the Judge to consider the definition of "gravity knife" and in that case the Judge did state that he believes the definition was met.

The court date was set because the person representing the DA was not an actual DA (at 1:30am).
 
It seems that you have been charged under the NYS Penal Law section 265 in which possession of gravity knife is a class A misd. The judge will most likely not entertain the question as to wheter or not this is a gravity knife. If the officer can flick the knife open from the fully closed postion to the locked open position, then it is a gravity knife by NY law. ( this was not what the law intended to ban in 1958, but it is what has been enforced since the 1970s). I would suggest seeing if the model is offered for sale in any NYC or NYS store. If you can demonstrate to the ADA that the knife you had is readily offered for sale to the public then you have a WEAK defense that this is not a illegal item. The judge in open court will not allow you to go down this path, but a young ADA may listen to it when he discusses you case on the side with you. What make and model is it? I assume it is a Benchmade as per your letter from them. You seem to have fell victim to a plain cloths officer meeting his monthly productiveity report. In the MTS Borough command a officer is basically required to make two felony arrest a month--was this near the end of the month----did he see a pocket clip and ask to see your kinfe?? How was the knife discovered? If it was infact visible then the search was valid since you were already in violation of the NYC Admin Code. If it was not visible then why where you searched? Bernard Levine is a expert witness and has a forum on this site....fill in the missing details I will asnwer more then.....
 
this is the def of a gravity knife...... "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device....this is the mostlikely charge against you....Section 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree

A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:

(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A misdemeanor.
 
UUUHHHGGG!!! I just read that Wall Street Journal article for the first time, god, how disgusting... I'm joining AKTI right now...

A few hilarious highlights:

"...with their curved, perforated or serrated blades and ergonomic grips, can inflict deadly damage, but they are also compact, easily concealed and virtually unregulated"

"Thirty-seven states now outlaw switchblades, partly because they developed a cult following among teenagers in the 1950s"

" Buck, for example, boasts in marketing materials about the "stopping power" of its tactical knives"

"Technology has made blade length almost irrelevant.... "Clearly we are seeing wounds you would expect from a bigger blade from what victims say was a small knife," says Andrew Ulrich, a Boston Medical Center emergency-room doctor."

"....he admitted to police that he stuck his tactical knife into stripper Edward Pedrosa, 24, during a melee that broke out when men attending a bachelor party raided a bawdy bash for the bride-to-be.."

"Meanwhile, in the race for the next big thing, some companies are competing to make more durable ceramic and plastic knives that can pass through metal detectors. Plastic "assisted-opening" knives that flick open with a slight nudge of the blade can be purchased on eBay for $20."

Oh and I love the following use of the word "menacing":
"Leatherman Tool Group jumped on the tactical-knife bandwagon in 2005, introducing a full line of tactical-type knives. The most prominent feature on its knives is the "Blade Launcher" mechanism, which lets the user flip a menacing-looking blade out of its handle with lightning speed."
 
Tom, et al.,

The knife I was arrested for carrying was the Benchmade 910 Stryker ( http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=910 not the auto-stryker model ). Several times previous to the arrest I have gone to events at museums and even exhibition halls, even to the Empire State Building and had the knife held by uniformed officers and security guards for the duration of these visits. I was simply shocked that the arresting officers took any more interest in it than these others. I suppose the quota explanation is most likely though it was only about half way through the month.

So now since it seems I can no longer carry that perfectly useful knife. I am in the market for a replacement since my daily use needs have not diminished. I have tried talking to officers both friendly and not about how and what to replace it with and they always give me the party line. 'Don't clip it to a pocket and expect to get arrested again if you are ever searched because then it will additionally be considered a concealed weapon rather than just a weapon.' As much as this makes me furious in multiple different ways I want to sort out two different things. 1) What knife can I carry that meets my needs and is at least defensible in the case of further arrests. 2) Is there anything that we as citizens can do about this situation?

I know someone mentioned joining the NRA and lobbying for the creation of an NKA from within that organization. This seems a better place to start than attempting individual legal action however I have no contact with the NRA to see if they would even be interested in this kind of possibility or if they would just say "not our field."

Lastly, I am considering one of these as a replacement since the pivot could theoretically be tightened down without making the knife a serious pain to open ( http://www.crkt.com/m16fdz.html ). But I am concerned that the same problem is going to arise all over again and I don't know that I want multiple misdemeanors on my record. And here I thought the damn thing was going to clear up now that I haven't been "young and stupid" for quite a few years.
 
tom19176 said:
did he see a pocket clip and ask to see your kinfe?? How was the knife discovered? If it was infact visible then the search was valid since you were already in violation of the NYC Admin Code. If it was not visible then why where you searched?
Click to expand...

as a dabbler in the law, i am interested in this one too
 
Still wondering why they searched and found the knife ? This is not a charged you want repeated as a second arrest for it (after conviction of ANY crime) is a FELONY. The knife you carried and the proposed replacement are both knives that could easily fall in to the "dangerous knife" catagory. Stay away from Tanto/spear/baynoet blades as Officers/ judges see WEAPON when they see them. AS for the concealed part, I am not sure where these officers got their info. The NYC law tells you it must be concealled, and the NYS PL has no requirement for a knife to be visible. I would say anyone who offers the advice that it can not be concealled thinks the Sullivan law is still in the Penal Law of today ( it was changed when the Penal Law was made and the Penal Code was replaced).

This is the section that shows a past criminal conviction makes this a D felony.... A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree when:

(1) Such person commits the crime of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree as defined in subdivision one, two, three or five of section 265.01, and has been previously convicted of any crime; or
 
Stay away from AO too in NYC (though the Leek the most common knife I see here..)

When were you arrested icorbett? So this makes 3 of us...screwed by NYC laws..

Tell us how the hearing goes, I'm due on the 20th, though I was only picked up for knife in plain view..no visit to the Tombs in Chinatown..
 
icorbett said:
.......

I know someone mentioned joining the NRA and lobbying for the creation of an NKA from within that organization. This seems a better place to start than attempting individual legal action however I have no contact with the NRA to see if they would even be interested in this kind of possibility or if they would just say "not our field." ........
Click to expand...

This might be something like you're looking for:

http://www.kniferights.org/
 
Mayor Mike may be looking at Albany but he is definitely interested in Washington DC.

I do not want a nanny for President.
 
I believe that the reason I was searched is because I did have the knife clipped to my pocket in such a way that when I stepped in front of the unmarked police car the officers were able to see it. I was arrested on 4/18 and it has actually taken me this long to find any kind of interesting/useful resource. Everyone I know has an opinion but not a single one has documentation or experience to back them up.

I am curious to see the law concerning concealment not being considered a requirement rather than a heightened crime as it is in most states. As much as I dont agree with that law, I would much rather keep a knife in my pocket than thrash around like an idiot every time I need to cut something.

As for the law concerning escalation to felony, does that require a "weapon" be carried at such a time as any crime is committed after a previous conviction of misdemeanor weapons possession or is it the case that a second case of misdemeanor weapons possession is automatically a felony? This seems dubious to me considering it takes 3 arrests in the period of a year for Spotlight to take effect.

Last but not least, how difficult it is to see that there is something of *legal* value to the tanto blade with some serration when almost every Police, Emergency or Fire branded knife employs these traits?
 
I am trying my damnedest to try and get it back, my grandfather bought me that knife the year before he died. But no, I have not managed this yet. I believe the situation is that if the case is either dismissed or I "win" in some way that I can get it back, otherwise I have to petition the court. There is also an aspect of the law that I have found that states that if a knife (not sure if this applies to "weapons" or not) is confiscated that you have to request it returned to you within a period of time or it is destroyed. I am trying to find my reference for this but if you recorded the name or badge number of the arresting officer you may be able to file this kind or request.
 
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