Wear resistance test for 12 different steels

Dirty Wells Lamont glove from heat treating oil & metal gunk.

Thanks for giving a performance references for 1084 & 14C28N. My first time testing them so I've no idea what a reasonable baseline #s would be.
KennyB said:
Heh, all that dirt on those from this? Wells Lamont?

Anyway, this is pretty cool. I'm glad to see 1084 place so close with 14C28N because I've kind of felt they were similar in my use.
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** On going palm frond test for K390 - 3800 cuts, it's still slicing newsprint but more noisy now - yep, it's slowing down **
 
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bluntcut said:
Dirty Wells Lamont glove from heat treating oil & metal gunk.

Thanks for giving a performance references for 1084 & 14C28N. My first time testing them so I've no idea what a reasonable baseline #s would be.


** On going palm frond test for K390 - 3800 cuts, it's still slicing newsprint but more noisy now - yep, it's slowing down **
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Heh I see, I thought maybe after thousands and thousands of cuts they accumluated some serious grime :P Also nice was just taking a guess, they look like a pair I have haha

Yeah I haven't used any honest-to-goodness 1084, but some Case CV which is pretty close. Even the specific model knives I had were similar blade geometry so it made a direct comparison pretty obtainable, and I never noticed a significant difference. Sometimes I would think the Kershaw would stay sharper a little bit longer, but I think that may have just been the extremely thin hollow grind on it.

If you want to do some really gnarly testing and have some old jeans, cut some strips of that and roll them up and cut slices off that like it was a rope. My 1095, Case CV and 14C28N all at 30-40 inclusive all dulled miserably after only a few cuts into a roll 2" thick.

Excited to see the results for the rope. I have a feeling the 52100 won't fair quite as well on the fibrous material versus vegetation.
 
I've to find out where K390 stand. So, cutting and more cutting. Every time the knife about to fail slice newsprint, then all sudden it slice newsprint fine. I think some single depth carbides were hanging, eventually flaked off and the edge became more toothy but passed the test so far.

** On going palm frond test for K390 - 6000 cuts ** It's now the top performer in this test. 52100 is 2nd final at 5250 cuts.

edit:
I thought might as well take more punishment, I just went and cut an additional 100 cuts. It failed, so I cleaned the edge carefully, still failed. What? how? Here is the pic (ruler ticks is 1mm apart).
00er.jpg


** FINAL palm frond test for K390 - 6100 cuts **
 
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For the 0.5" sisal rope test. I bored a hole in a piece of wood and feed rope through it for cutting on the cutting board. Any suggestions/thoughs on changes before I commit this test?
 
bluntcut said:
For the 0.5" sisal rope test. I bored a hole in a piece of wood and feed rope through it for cutting on the cutting board. Any suggestions/thoughs on changes before I commit this test?
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I got nothing, but would like to thank you for taking the time to share all this including methodology.

I have one suggestion, you might want to start a side business selling mulch :D !
 
Martin/HH - You've been contributing to BF steadily, so I've learned quite a bit from you. Thank YOU back :thumbup:

No mulch biz, i'm just practicing to be more efficient in cutting hemp (rope, yeah rope ;) )
HeavyHanded said:
I got nothing, but would like to thank you for taking the time to share all this including methodology.

I have one suggestion, you might want to start a side business selling mulch :D !
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For rope test, I think I will test knives in 2 pair at a time interleaving each for every 100 cuts. e.g. k390 pair with 1084 and 52100 pair with 14C28N. Will pair the next knife in line (top down pair with bottom up). Perhaps a bit more fair just in case a bad section of rope and or bad divot in the cutting board.
 
HeavyHanded said:
I got nothing, but would like to thank you for taking the time to share all this including methodology.

I have one suggestion, you might want to start a side business selling mulch :D !
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Or a side business selling knives! Ok bluntcut, I'd like to have your 52100 knife in a shallow full height convex grind as my new bushcraft style knife! Thanks, I appreciate that :D
 
Thanks Andy! When my 52100 is ready, I'll gladly make a knife for you. A high performance blade but probably wear a so so design + F&F :p

awestib said:
Or a side business selling knives! Ok bluntcut, I'd like to have your 52100 knife in a shallow full height convex grind as my new bushcraft style knife! Thanks, I appreciate that :D
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On going sisal rope cutting test for: K390, 52100, 14C28N, 1084. Each knife made 1200 cuts so far. I afraid that my cut count will be very high, since 0.5" sisal rope is not as tough as palm frond. at least the way I setup my cutting rig.
[video=youtube_share;xE5RPN-drw0]http://youtu.be/xE5RPN-drw0[/video]
 
PALM FROND & ROPE CUTTING == A FAILED SETUP!!!!!!!!!!!!! :grumpy:

K390;52100;15C28N;1084 knives made 1700 rope cuts and with a little or no sign of failing. So I decided just keep testing only 1084 knife, well now it's at 2500 and still pass newsprint slicing with slight noise. At this rate, 1084 probably make 4000+ cuts.

Then it occurred to me that this entire test (palm frond & rope) is about blade against the cutting board. As I've noticed along the way that every miscut of frond = small chop to the cutting board. When doing rope, there hardly any miscut, so the blade mostly landed not hard + some wood slicing motion. That's why 1084 still going strong at 2500 cuts.

My cutting board is end grain board, so it's gentle to the edge. While other testers used mostly edge-grain board/log/etc.. so their # of cut will naturally be lower than mine.

Just imagine cutting frond/rope in the air, wow that requires super high count and a very long time to conduct.

What's about the frond cutting result?
Yes it useful, if real-work consists of cutting something against an end-grain board.

I've learned a few things, happy? Nah!
 
My friend, every day realistic use will have the blade cut material against something as backing. So the test should be good as realistic use.

However, if you truly just want to measure wear done by rope/frond, this new setup should be the way to go ... :confused: ?

@Andy,

You'll get addicted. ;)
 
You're right, the palm frond test showed the endurance of particular knife in hard slicing and hard impact. But the objective of this experiment is looking for good correlation between usage and steel wear resistance, since other variables(I will list them in next post) I can't blissfully ignore, therefore no longer able to deduce/draw good correlation, thereby failed to achieve its objective.
Chris "Anagarika";12858721 said:
My friend, every day realistic use will have the blade cut material against something as backing. So the test should be good as realistic use.
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Sorry, I wasn't clear. frond&rope wear & tear factors are small in compare to impact (small chop, push, slice) with the cutting board (backing). I can't think of a good test yet, where wear resistance can be measure with high level of confidence. e.g. cardboard cutting involves too many variables especially with the blade profle, edge geometry & edge profile.
However, if you truly just want to measure wear done by rope/frond, this new setup should be the way to go ... :confused: ?
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Major variables/factors at played for this experiment (some were blissfully ignored from the onset). Not a complete list...

1. Edge(cutting bevel) geometry
All edges were adaptive to withstand the repeat impact -> accounted for

2. Edge profile (the apex curve from heel to tip) and Blade profile (eventually the knife handling/holding)
52100, k110/d2, 14C28N, 1084, 15N20 started out from identical blade blank (I cut them so just for this experiment in mind). From the spread of data point, I believed this 2 variables were accounted for.

3. Cut backing
a) hardness (surface & depth) - accounted via end cutting grain board
b) Impact tilt (angle deviate from vertical/normal) - I tried to minimize tilt but due to freehand there were a lot of tilt, mostly steering left-to-right.
c) Consequentially when the blade penetrate the board, the blade withdrawal mostly vertical, so another unwanted lateral force to the edge.

4. Steel toughness
Possibly there were impacts exceed the toughness of those knife with extra hardness (or toward upper end of per steel), which lead to earlier failure for this particular experiment configuration

5. Mis-cut
In effort to save time, knives may subjected to chopping(low height) impact, where some impacts may lead to premature failure.

hm... my mind insists more coffee before recalling any more.
 
This experiment high cut count (into thousands) provides a bit of comfort for me to draw some insights. This particular 52100 knife got 5250 can't be just pure luck because statistically cumulative risk-of-failure/per-cut will rule out luck. Aaaah yummy lemonade :rolleyes:

edit *vent*:
I am disappointed with myself for accepted that rope is abrasive solely based on countless posts + utube videos + internet rope cutting test and their conclusions. Tiny silicate in natural fiberous matter dulls your edge VERY slowly - insignificant - in compare to backing & dirt & other variables. I still have 350feet of rope for weave into a basket - hahaha.
 
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Seems that this test is more about proof in method of cutting more than what is being cut. Obviously some things will wreck an edge, but the rope and fronds are close to what many knife users see (mostly cutting food or opening packages), and almost all of the wear seems to have come from hitting the cutting board.
 
Thanks for taking the time to test and post this! I would love to do a test like this.....someday when life slows down a little:)
 
:thumbup:

@dkb45 - yes you're right, empirical data seems to support that conclusion.

@Ernie1980 - thanks and perhaps open for a future joint/collab experiment.
 
Sand is my new cutting medium. It is: pure abrasion, uniform low impact, independent of blade profile+edge (profile & geometry), repeatable and fair.

I will make a cardboard box 2x10 by 6" tall, fill with white sand from sandbox. Slow stab the knife on one end of the box then drag/cut to other end. For low alloy knives, I will test after every cut. For uber steels (cpm-m4, k390) will test every 10 cuts. and somewhere in between for other mid-alloy knives.

I like to hear your thoughts, please?
 
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