What happened if your package is seized by Customs...

If you can open it one-handed Aussie Customs can confiscate it. wHAT KNIFE DID YOU SEND HIM?

Many countries have difficult rules. You need an informed buyer who won't try to import an illegal item. Deal with experienced knife people whom you can trust. It isn't nice to stiff the good guys because of their country's rules. Just be careful -- FEEDBACK is a good place to ask. But you have to tell us what knife is involved for us to help.
 
BNIB SPRINT - BENTO BOX PARA 2 - M390 Blue with a tighten pivot....i know...stupid me

Esav Benyamin said:
If you can open it one-handed Aussie Customs can confiscate it. wHAT KNIFE DID YOU SEND HIM?

Many countries have difficult rules. You need an informed buyer who won't try to import an illegal item. Deal with experienced knife people whom you can trust. It isn't nice to stiff the good guys because of their country's rules. Just be careful -- FEEDBACK is a good place to ask. But you have to tell us what knife is involved for us to help.
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Ouch that's gotta hurt did you confirm it was seized? Really hope you get that one back.
 
I will not ship internationally because I don't feel that I know enough about the laws, which change frequently. I have sold to the friends or relatives of the buyer who live in the US. It is then up to them to send the knife on to the international buyer.

I sent a knife to Russia once and the buyer complained about the condition. I said to send it back for a full refund including return shipping. He didn't, instead trashed me on a local blog. I can only suspect he really liked the knife and was fishing for some sort of refund.

Other bloggers thought the fellow was being unrealistic since my listing stated that if not satisfied send it back for a full refund. That was the last time I ever shipped overseas. Between customs, figuring out shipping costs, worrrying about delivery, etc. it just isn't worth it when I can sell to someone in the USA so easily.
 
I just got information from Australian Custom. Stating the PARA 2 in Not controlled. They will inspect during arrival. And if fail, buyer can request to ship back to sender (my case).

From: [Firearms and Weapons Administration] [mailto:weaponspolicy@customs.gov.au]
Sent: Monday, 19 August 2013 1:30 PM
To: BUYER
Cc: [Firearms and Weapons Administration]
Subject: RE: Classification for Spyderco Paramilitary 2 [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Dear BUYER

The Spyderco Paramilitary 2 has been classified as not controlled by this office.

We would expect the same make and model to have the same results in future, but we do know occasionally different production changes can affect the classification of knives. As long as they are correctly declared we will assess them as they arrive, but we have recorded these models results here. There are many variants and sprint runs with alternate steel types for this model so I assume you can understand it is difficult to make general statements without adding that the goods will still be subject to inspection to confirm the classification on arrival.

If goods have been declared you can request export to sender if on inspection the knife is found to be controlled. This will generally be permitted when you have received advice that the goods are not controlled prior to import.

Regards,
| Supervisor Firearms & Weapons | Australian Customs and Border Protection Service

Important: The advice in this e-mail is for information only and is not binding on Customs and Border Protection as there may be insufficient information on which to base a decision. If this item is imported, the Customs Officer and the Customs and Border Protection Office that receives the item for clearance will make the decision as to whether or not the requirements of the Regulations are satisfied.
 
spketch said:
Did you happen to crank down the pivot so that it couldn't be flicked open? I've read that doing so can help knives get through Canadian customs, not sure of it would have made a difference here.
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It doesn't work on the para2. If you press the lock down, the blade can and will swing open, similar to the way an Axis lock functions.
 
I believe if you had sent the knife disassembled, or in pieces in separate shipments, they would interpret that as knowing your knife was questionable or illegal, and you were playing games trying to trick them.
 
The email I posted was Aussie custom replying to the buyer. He ask for permission first before buying. Custom states the Para 2 is not a control item, meaning they will inspect when arrive. Say it failed inspection, very good chance they will ship back to sender (since it's not controlled item). As long as sender declare it correctly as cutlery tool.

But I look at the email date, it was prior to purchase date. I just requested from the buyer, to provide me the official notification from custom (email) that item was indeed seized due to fail test. Buyer can have item ship back to sender. It's been 2 hours since, nothing......
 
He probably didn't get an e-mail telling him it was seized but a hard copy letter. depending on the state it is the middle of the day here just now so he may well be at work and away from e-mail etc.

"Parts" for a prohibited/controlled import are also classified so stripping and shipping that way does not help and can go to establishing "intent" or Mens Rea if you will. I would not recommend this course of action.

Now let us once again be clear about Australia and knives. *IF* the blade in question is fixed, single edged and without a "knuckle duster" type handle it is not in any way controlled or prohibited and provided it is correctly declared – “fixed blade knife” is what I generally recommend (its no secret as they scan/x-ray each and every package) they pass through the International Mail Centre to the buyer with not a second look. Daggers may be imported but WILL be stopped and “seized” when detected, an import permit provided by the applicable state police will then ensure it is released from Customs to the Australian importer.
Very traditional folders and “some” other folders will make it in, “one handed opening” is up for some debate and a thumb stud alone does not make it illegal, failing the centrifugal force test is the deal clincher.
I have typed this time and again now…….

Andy
 
RevDevil said:
It doesn't work on the para2. If you press the lock down, the blade can and will swing open, similar to the way an Axis lock functions.
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I was thinking if they only flick the knife OR push the lock-tab it won't open, but the rules do say centrifugal force and/or pushing a button, so I guess it's up to the inspector.
 
Andy the Aussie said:
"Parts" for a prohibited/controlled import are also classified so stripping and shipping that way does not help and can go to establishing "intent" or Mens Rea if you will. I would not recommend this course of action.

Now let us once again be clear about Australia and knives. *IF* the blade in question is fixed, single edged and without a "knuckle duster" type handle it is not in any way controlled or prohibited and provided it is correctly declared – “fixed blade knife” is what I generally recommend (its no secret as they scan/x-ray each and every package) they pass through the International Mail Centre to the buyer with not a second look. Daggers may be imported but WILL be stopped and “seized” when detected, an import permit provided by the applicable state police will then ensure it is released from Customs to the Australian importer.
Very traditional folders and “some” other folders will make it in, “one handed opening” is up for some debate and a thumb stud alone does not make it illegal, failing the centrifugal force test is the deal clincher.
I have typed this time and again now…….
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Yep.

There have been some changes to the way Customs do things here. The term "one handed opening knives" has specific meaning with Customs. Apart from an annoying recent couple of years it has pretty much meant any knife which could be opened by centrifugal force, "flicking", flipping or by an assist/spring mechanism. For a fairly short time they seemed to interpret it as meaning any folding knife which could physically be opened with one hand, including by use of a thumb hole/stud. Thankfully it appears that knives which require a thumb hole etc to open are no longer controlled - eg we have Spyderco Delicas aplenty here now. And as the email above indicates they're now keeping track of what they will and won't let in. So all things considered it looks like the issue of sending folders to us Aussies is getting better.

Fixed blades are simpler. Knives with knuckle dusters attached will be an issue, daggers require extra paperwork from us and anything which is designed specifically for concealment (think those awful knives hidden in hair brushes) will be stopped. If Customs have concerns that they might come under state weapons legislation they'll make us do some paperwork and get local police authorisation. I have now imported a bunch of fixed blades and have had no issues.

And please, for everyone's sake, be honest in the Customs declaration. From time to time someone suggests shipping a controllable folder open and declaring it a "fixed blade". Aussie Customs are thorough, don't mind opening packages and are likely to find out if someone tells fibs in the declaration.

Cheers
Chris
 
RevDevil said:
It's the sellers responsibility to ensure the package gets to the buyer. That means doing a little homework to figure out the legality of such an item. Most often times a buyer has no idea of what their own laws are, out of ignorance or laziness, but rest assured if customs confiscates and item and destroys it, you the seller will be on the hook. It doesn't matter if you state "I am not responsible for the item once I ship it", that is BS.

If you sent a folder to Australia, you're going to have to eat the cost of the knife and refunding the buyer their money. It's been discussed quite a bit. One handed opening knives are more than likely not going to get accepted into the country. Tis is not new and certainly not a secret. If the item has been banned, it's likely to get destroyed.

Here is a video example of what they will do.

Here is a document on what the customs laws are regarding knives. Tis was the very first hit on Google and Bing by the way.

Here is some more information aon the legalities on importation, from their government webpage
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I can't find that anywhere in the rules here on Bladeforums.
I know as a buyer I like to use PayPal for this very reason, the seller has to prove I got a package from them. Same goes for my credit cards, if I tell my CC company that I never received what I purchased they will refund me and do a charge back against the seller.

What you are saying here implies that a buyer and seller here on Bladeforums can't agree that the sale is "done" once the seller ships the item. Is that true?

RevDevil said:
Does it cover laziness though? :p
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If not wanting to become an international shipping expert who studies and understands every nuance of import laws as it relates to pocket knives in every foreign country, or not being willing to somehow contact Australian customs (in this case) to try and determine, with certainty, that the knife I am shipping is legal or at least won't be seized, just to sell a pocket knife makes me lazy, then I am definitely lazy.
And I'm OK with that.


estate4life said:
I am just getting information from buyer, should I ask for proof? That item actually is seized....
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I certainly would, but then again I would never ship anything international without absolving myself of responsibility for this circumstance.
If you got paid through PayPal you will have to prove he received a package from you. Same goes if you were paid via credit card and he does a chargeback.

estate4life said:
So Australia is on my "do not send list"......what other country should I add? anyone?
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Every other country than the USA is on my list. Unless the buyer expressly absolves me of all responsibility once I ship, in writing, and I get paid with a USPS money order, or cash.
 
I've been known to ship the blade in a separate box from the rest of the knife. Nobody ever complains about that at customs. :)
 
Stu, if you use PayPal, keep these two points in mind.

Side agreements, even in writing between you, do not obligate PayPal. If the item does not arrive, they will refund the buyer.

He may have said he will "take responsibility" but if the item does not arrive and he files a claim, PayPal will issue him the refund.

Along the same lines, if the buyer says to ship to his friend in America who will get it to him, make sure his friend's address is on his PayPal list of confirmed delivery points. Otherwise you have just gifted his friend the item and PayPal will ... refund the money to the buyer because that item never arrived at the address registered with PayPal.

Do it by the book. PayPal's book. Side agreements don't count.
 
RevDevil said:
Does it cover laziness though? :p
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I gotta disagree with your stance. I understand what you're saying, but sometimes a person is just naive to such things. I know that you can follow with "well you shouldn't be selling/trading then", but I'd bet that many aren't aware of every rule or possible issue, and with that goes the inability to research. This applies to many facets of life. That's why the word naive exists.

My stance is that buyers and sellers should be directed to resources like this sub-forum that help to educate. I've learned a lot, and for that I'm extremely thankful. I've been paying insurance for high dollar used knives for a while, valued at full price so that I can replace the item if something went wrong. Because of this forum I now know better.

I just encourage a transaction partner to read up here if there are questions that I can't answer.

I'm sure, having been a mod for a long time that some things seem obvious. I'm guilty of that when giving sharpening advice. It's important to remember that good people don't always know the rules. :)
 
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I live in Canada and have bought many knives from the States and so far so good I haven't ever had a problem. I have also heard that tightening the pivot screw helps on certain knives but I haven't had anyone try it for me
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Stu, if you use PayPal, keep these two points in mind.

Side agreements, even in writing between you, do not obligate PayPal. If the item does not arrive, they will refund the buyer.

He may have said he will "take responsibility" but if the item does not arrive and he files a claim, PayPal will issue him the refund.

Along the same lines, if the buyer says to ship to his friend in America who will get it to him, make sure his friend's address is on his PayPal list of confirmed delivery points. Otherwise you have just gifted his friend the item and PayPal will ... refund the money to the buyer because that item never arrived at the address registered with PayPal.

Do it by the book. PayPal's book. Side agreements don't count.
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100 % on the mark:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
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