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What happened if your package is seized by Customs...
- Thread starter blade4sell
- Start date
Off the top of my head?
1. Unethical
2. I could be wrong, but unless the overseas buyer holds my currency I would still have to pay to convert it.
3. I am not entirely sure that PayPal wouldn't come after me if my buyer used a credit card to "gift" me the money and did a chargeback through the card issuer.
But mainly #1
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2002
- Messages
- 618
Yea, but Dundee is using a fixed blade. I have literally imported a hundred fixed blades without a problem (unless double edged). I ain't a gonna try a folder though. Strange thing is, there are retailers in Australia who are importing them and able to do it. I simply buy my flippers etc from them - and I find it hard to believe that these folders are old stock.
The goals are the following:
1. No screw anyone over, and lose your reputation over it.
2. Get the person the item they want, provided it's legal to own. Getting on any countrys "watch list" as an importer of illegal weapons isn't something I'm interested in doing.
3. The stupidity factor. Most people should not be quite that dumb to do such a thing.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2007
- Messages
- 7,743
I've only shipped once to Australia.
I have a question about folders. What criteria makes a folder a no-go? Supposing I shipped a folder, could I simply tighten the pivot so there's no chance of it being considered a gravity knife?
I have a question about folders. What criteria makes a folder a no-go? Supposing I shipped a folder, could I simply tighten the pivot so there's no chance of it being considered a gravity knife?
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2011
- Messages
- 96
Not sure if you have to be a member, but this 54 page thread got closer than anywhere else to defining it - what I am saying is there are no defined limts - hence the confusion!
http://www.australianbladeforums.com/vb4/showthread.php?2198-From-Dec-14-new-rules-apply
http://www.australianbladeforums.com/vb4/showthread.php?2198-From-Dec-14-new-rules-apply
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2012
- Messages
- 1,774
My understanding is that Customs keep an eye on which models would normally be opened by gravity or "centrifugal force", so if it's just a matter of a tightened pivot screw they may see it is an attempt to mislead them.
Customs have recently made some changes to their policies in regard to how they're classifying things which should make it much more consistent. For a while it was the case that if it could literally be opened by one hand (including with a thumb stud/hole) it would be controlled. Now it's much more a matter of being able to flick the knife open. Spyderco Delica's and Dragonflies are coming through. I know of a few PM2's which have also made it.
I think Customs are now keeping a list of folding knives which are definitely controlled and those which would not normally be controlled. When I get a chance I will be writing to them to ask that they make that list public, if it isn't already.
Also, just to reiterate that fixed blades aren't normally a problem unless they're daggers (sharpened on two sides) or are of a kind which would be considered a fighting knife. Here are a couple links to the Australian Customs web page about weapons:
http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4372.asp
http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4372.asp#CommonWeaponsList
There are also a couple of broad reasons why a knife might be stopped by Customs:
1. It might be of a type controlled under the legislation governing Customs (eg in the case of one handed opening knives), or
2. It might be of a type considered a prohibited weapon under state legislation.
If the knife is stopped because of reason 2, then the buyer can often still get permission to get the item released to them if they show they have a legal reason to have the knife, depending on state legislation. For example here in South Oz I might be able to get some kinds of fighting knives through if I can show that I am a collector or have a reasonable need to use them in a recognized form of recreation. These circumstances are often very specific. There is also some jumping through hoops required. If you're the seller it is worth asking if a buyer has been refused by Customs outright or if they just have to go the extra mile to get law enforcement permission.
For what it's worth, as far as my own behaviour is concerned I don't care what Paypal rules are - if a knife is correctly described by the vendor and I buy it but it's seized and destroyed by Customs, I consider it my problem. I would find it personally unethical to expect the seller or knife maker to be out of pocket because of my mistake. If it was returned to the vendor I might negotiate towards a partial refund, but that would be on a case-by-case basis and that would be for the two of us to work out.
Australia is still a good place to do business. For what it's worth I've imported about 10 fixed blades from knife makers here and to date I haven't had any stopped.
(sorry about the marathon post)
Customs have recently made some changes to their policies in regard to how they're classifying things which should make it much more consistent. For a while it was the case that if it could literally be opened by one hand (including with a thumb stud/hole) it would be controlled. Now it's much more a matter of being able to flick the knife open. Spyderco Delica's and Dragonflies are coming through. I know of a few PM2's which have also made it.
I think Customs are now keeping a list of folding knives which are definitely controlled and those which would not normally be controlled. When I get a chance I will be writing to them to ask that they make that list public, if it isn't already.
Also, just to reiterate that fixed blades aren't normally a problem unless they're daggers (sharpened on two sides) or are of a kind which would be considered a fighting knife. Here are a couple links to the Australian Customs web page about weapons:
http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4372.asp
http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4372.asp#CommonWeaponsList
There are also a couple of broad reasons why a knife might be stopped by Customs:
1. It might be of a type controlled under the legislation governing Customs (eg in the case of one handed opening knives), or
2. It might be of a type considered a prohibited weapon under state legislation.
If the knife is stopped because of reason 2, then the buyer can often still get permission to get the item released to them if they show they have a legal reason to have the knife, depending on state legislation. For example here in South Oz I might be able to get some kinds of fighting knives through if I can show that I am a collector or have a reasonable need to use them in a recognized form of recreation. These circumstances are often very specific. There is also some jumping through hoops required. If you're the seller it is worth asking if a buyer has been refused by Customs outright or if they just have to go the extra mile to get law enforcement permission.
For what it's worth, as far as my own behaviour is concerned I don't care what Paypal rules are - if a knife is correctly described by the vendor and I buy it but it's seized and destroyed by Customs, I consider it my problem. I would find it personally unethical to expect the seller or knife maker to be out of pocket because of my mistake. If it was returned to the vendor I might negotiate towards a partial refund, but that would be on a case-by-case basis and that would be for the two of us to work out.
Australia is still a good place to do business. For what it's worth I've imported about 10 fixed blades from knife makers here and to date I haven't had any stopped.
(sorry about the marathon post)
Last edited:
Kevin Wilkins
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 1,484
The thing is, 9 out of 10 buyers who SAY that when they want to buy someting will turn around and file a PayPal claim the second the knife fails to arrive for whatever reason. It's all good as long as the knife arrives, when it doesn't, they want their money back. No matter what they said in the beginning and because of PayPal's rules, they will get it back from seller.
This is why risky deals involving shipping folders to Australia are just not worth it from as seller's perspective. The selling price would have to be doubled or tripled to cover the risk and pay for the knives seized and all the hassle and time needed to deal with it.
Folks in Australia unhappy with this need to get more involved in their government and get the laws changed.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2012
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- 1,774
Kevin - I can't argue with you mate. I find it incredibly disappointing that it happens but there are always people who don't want to take responsibility for their actions. It's unfortunate that sending folders here is so contentious. The Customs issues are getting better and the latest changes are a big step forward. It's far from perfect, but hopefully the improvement continues. Thankfully it's much more straightforward when it comes to fixed blades.
(as an aside - judging by what I'm looking at on your website it's definitely our loss if we can't import your work. Those are pure awesome!)
(as an aside - judging by what I'm looking at on your website it's definitely our loss if we can't import your work. Those are pure awesome!)
Kevin Wilkins
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 1,484
Thank you! Just to clarify, I wasn't directing my comments only at Australians, just in case anyone thought I was. I meant people in general, the world over. The majority will say one thing but when the sh*t hits the fan, and it's gonna cost them money, they will do another. Just a fact of life.
I don't hardly make any folding knives anymore, but I do make and sell a lot of WilkinsGRIPs and I sent quite a few to Australia with no problems at all. I would not want to try sending complete folders Down Under though.
I don't hardly make any folding knives anymore, but I do make and sell a lot of WilkinsGRIPs and I sent quite a few to Australia with no problems at all. I would not want to try sending complete folders Down Under though.
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2012
- Messages
- 2,010
update: just got the blue para back today!!!! it's like loosing your money, then found it few weeks later
I shipped a knife to Russia only to be told it was prohibited by Russian customs and they would return it to me. Box arrived this past Friday and when I opened it there was an empty zipper case inside box with paperwork in Russian scolding me as to how wrong this little folding knife was. USPS insurance won't cover it since it was "prohibited". Lesson learned. Move on.
Glad to hear it worked out.
Adding to this relevant thread, I'm having a bit of problem. I sold a knife to russian federation user on fleabay, but the postal address is to an airport in the US. Is this still considered US shipping or International shipping? Am I naive to think that because USPS address is US, that I get the money from paypal when it get's delivered? Thanks!
Adding to this relevant thread, I'm having a bit of problem. I sold a knife to russian federation user on fleabay, but the postal address is to an airport in the US. Is this still considered US shipping or International shipping? Am I naive to think that because USPS address is US, that I get the money from paypal when it get's delivered? Thanks!
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2013
- Messages
- 3,809
Out of curiosity - if they got prior approval from the weapons controller that the knife is not a controlled item - could that approval be provided with the shipment, to provide guidance for the inspector?