What happened if your package is seized by Customs...

Esav Benyamin said:
Stu, if you use PayPal, keep these two points in mind.

Side agreements, even in writing between you, do not obligate PayPal. If the item does not arrive, they will refund the buyer.

He may have said he will "take responsibility" but if the item does not arrive and he files a claim, PayPal will issue him the refund.

Along the same lines, if the buyer says to ship to his friend in America who will get it to him, make sure his friend's address is on his PayPal list of confirmed delivery points. Otherwise you have just gifted his friend the item and PayPal will ... refund the money to the buyer because that item never arrived at the address registered with PayPal.

Do it by the book. PayPal's book. Side agreements don't count.
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Couldn't agree more Esav. I wish everyone took the care and time to read and understand the terms of use of the services they use.
That's why I added the part about requiring "cash" payment even after terms are agreed to.

I laugh to myself when I see a seller that takes PayPal giving the buyer the option of buying insurance for the item being purchased. The buyer already did that when he/she paid with PayPal, the seller is just screwing himself out of insurance.

Personally I wouldn't let a seller think we had an agreement that I had forgone insurance and then turn around and leverage a refund through the PayPal rules. I believe two consenting adults should be able to agree to just about anything, and if I tell you I'm responsible for any loss after you ship, I would be. I would never agree to that, but if I did.

I don't expect Bladeforums mods to enforce/police any aspect of the actual terms of sale agreed upon by the two parties in trades/sales I engage in here, the "side agreements" you refer to. I do expect them to moderate the airing of grievances in Feedback GBU, and ultimately remove members who unquestionably attempt to defraud other members (weather successful or not).
My concern is moderators possibly enforcing rules that don't exist, and making statements that are inconsistent with the rules. The most repeated one IMO is:
"no deal is done until both parties are satisfied",
and specific to this thread:
"It's the sellers responsibility to ensure the package gets to the buyer. That means doing a little homework to figure out the legality of such an item....It doesn't matter if you state "I am not responsible for the item once I ship it", that is BS."
The first one is so vague as to be laughable, and the second IMO should be beyond the reasonable purview of this forum and the mods ability, regardless of the noble intentions. Both can cause serious misunderstandings and/or give people the false impression that they are somehow less responsible to do their own due diligence when trading here.
 
Agreed. We just had "no deal is done until both parties are satisfied" come up the other day. I explained it is not a rule, it's a way the good guys treat each other. It's also something we can put in writing in the ad and acceptance, in public, so no one reneges. We can also quote the original ad when we accept (take it), so the seller can't delete or deny he offered that.

So many ways to protect ourselves. A scammer will take the money and run, we can't always beat him, but he won't be here to do it again. We have Exchange forum mods who go for the throat. :p

Of course, for the new and inexperienced, for the naive, we have The Stickies, right up at the top.
People come to FEEDBACK to complain, but never to read the advice that would have saved them.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/699-FEEDBACK-The-Good-The-Bad-The-Ugly
 
I don't envy the mods job, and I support your efforts. You guys keep this place the biggest and best knife forum, Thank you.

There are three "rules" I follow in a trade/purchase:
1. Caveat emptor
2. CYA
3. The Golden Rule (most important)
 
Esav wasn't kidding, I tear the throat out completely... No love for thieves and scammers from me at all.
 
36 hours....Nothing....still waiting for proof of custom seized package from Buyer. Tracking status still show enroute...

But many package I shipped, the tracking status stays enroute (the same)...even if package already delivered.
 
estate4life said:
So Australia is on my "do not send list"......what other country should I add? anyone?
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Australia is fine to send knives. Single edge fixed blades will never be seized. I have imported over 200 knives and lost 2 to Customs - both one handed opening folders.

Most of my knives never even get inspected.....just don't send folders ! ;)

ETA: Many lockbacks and slip joints are OK.
 
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estate4life said:
36 hours....Nothing....still waiting for proof of custom seized package from Buyer. Tracking status still show enroute...

But many package I shipped, the tracking status stays enroute (the same)...even if package already delivered.
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Customs held one waiting for taxes recently (of mine). The tracking showed it arrived into Customs and there it stayed for 2 weeks......and then left !!

Just my 2 cents - the buyer has a paper document. Can he take a photo ?
 
Update:

Ok....it is confirmed that package is siezed by Aussie custom on Oct 2nd. under subsection 203B(2) being good suspected on reasonable grounds to be special forfeited goods.

Buyer have submitted all written request to have package returned to me. Refund issued....
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Along the same lines, if the buyer says to ship to his friend in America who will get it to him, make sure his friend's address is on his PayPal list of confirmed delivery points. Otherwise you have just gifted his friend the item and PayPal will ... refund the money to the buyer because that item never arrived at the address registered with PayPal.
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I did not think about that, thanks! You probably just saved me from getting scammed somewhere along the line!
 
RevDevil said:
It's the sellers responsibility to ensure the package gets to the buyer. That means doing a little homework to figure out the legality of such an item. Most often times a buyer has no idea of what their own laws are, out of ignorance or laziness, but rest assured if customs confiscates and item and destroys it, you the seller will be on the hook. It doesn't matter if you state "I am not responsible for the item once I ship it", that is BS.

If you sent a folder to Australia, you're going to have to eat the cost of the knife and refunding the buyer their money. It's been discussed quite a bit. One handed opening knives are more than likely not going to get accepted into the country. Tis is not new and certainly not a secret. If the item has been banned, it's likely to get destroyed.
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*****Rest snipped for brevity*****
Thanks for those links RevDevil. I know not knowing isn't a reason, but none of that (as of now) will ever apply to me so I never bothered. I have a feeling though, maybe in the not so distant future, it may reach out and touch us even more here in the states. This thing of tightening the pivot isn't going to work forever, the "powers that be" don't like to be played the fool....I know - I know. ;) Thanks again.
 
RevDevil said:
It's the sellers responsibility to ensure the package gets to the buyer.
I agree


That means doing a little homework to figure out the legality of such an item.
Why should that be solely the sellers responsibility?

Most often times a buyer has no idea of what their own laws are, out of ignorance or laziness, but rest assured if customs confiscates and item and destroys it, you the seller will be on the hook. It doesn't matter if you state "I am not responsible for the item once I ship it", that is BS.
Sorry Rev,I disagree.I don't think the buyer should be void of all responsibility.


If you sent a folder to Australia, you're going to have to eat the cost of the knife and refunding the buyer their money. It's been discussed quite a bit. One handed opening knives are more than likely not going to get accepted into the country. Tis is not new and certainly not a secret. If the item has been banned, it's likely to get destroyed.
Then it should be served as lesson to the buyer to learn his local laws before offering to buy said item.


Here is a video example of what they will do.

Here is a document on what the customs laws are regarding knives. Tis was the very first hit on Google and Bing by the way.

Here is some more information aon the legalities on importation, from their government webpage
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I believe "buyers" have a responsibility to the knife community to KNOW THEIR OWN LOCAL LAWS before throwing out a haphazard "I'll take it!" Why should it be ALL on the seller?
 
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