What is with A.G. Russel?

A. G. Russell said:
It may no0t be an ATAK, but the doctor sure as hell did not marke it, nor did he send it off to some stranger to forge a marking on it, he bought it from mad dog and returned the un-marked knife to mad dog to mark and got it back from mad dobg.

This is not some fly-by-night kid, this is a serious collector who has spent many thousands oif dollars with me and Lord knows how many more with the knife making community.

I don't care if mcclung employeed fowler or allowed his so called independent contracter to answer his phones. Personally I think mcclung is a pityful businessman and in fact a poor excuse for a man. He treats his customer like shit and the little support he has gotten here has been way too much.

Now PLEASE, can we get to what matters. Parker, did we send you a new knife or not? If not, then I have serious problem and need your help. Please give me your address email will do. My private email is agr@agr3.com and tell me what sort of knife will fulfill our guarantee to you.

You have done your friend no good here and are not likely to. Please help me settle the problem you have raised for me. This is A. G. Russell using my computer not some independent contractor I havel allowed in my shop.
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Mr Russell, I appreciate your offer. To answer your question, I did not get an exchange knife, but rather than you send it to me, I'd prefer you send it to a Marine private with a combat MOS who needs it. I've got one or two to keep me company as it is, and I realize that the guys running into harms way are not paid nearly enough, nor are they always issued a good knife. I thank you for your offer and request you handle it in this manner.

Sir, as you have now stated above that this is not an ATAK, I would request you specifically address whether or not this knife will remain for sale marketed as it has been, if it will be offered for sale as a mismarked and controversial Mad Dog, or if it will be removed from the Cutting Edge altogether.

If you went back and re-read what i had to say to you at Tac Forums a good long while back, while you and I have some differences of opinion, I meant what I said to you initially then and still mean it now. You've been a fixture in this thing for 40 years. I've a lot of respect for that. My choice in friends and associations is mine, and I'll proudly bear that cross.

All of that said, given the history of this particular offering, and also given your visceral reaction to a fraud having been perpetrated in your name, I would believe the only correct thing for you to do would be to either pull the listing altogether, or to modify it substantially so that you are not setting yourself up as a purveyor of a fraudulent knife.

I would believe we could debate the point of who marked the knife between us til the cows come home, and maybe one day we shall do so over a fine whiskey after hours, but the point remains that this is not what it has been held out to be. I prefer to see this handled appropriately, which would be to remove the listing as is, and either re-list it as a controversial knife, or to remove it altogether.

So in closing, I bid you all a good evening and we'll see how this plays on the 'morrow. Nothing involving Kevin McClung is ever dull or boring, hell, I've said that to him directly :D
 
Parker said:
My choice in friends and associations is mine, and I'll proudly bear that cross.
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When you have friends like McClung, that says much to me...none of it good.

Respect your attitude, seriously question your judgement.

Your cross, hope you don't get nailed to it....see you out in the real world.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Parker,
Please get me a name and an email address and I will send an entire company of marines our War on Troop Boredom packages in your name. Of course I would need to know which of our 1872 Parkers yoiu are.

You sir are a gentleman, if only your friend were.
 
A. G. Russell said:
Parker,
Please get me a name and an email address and I will send an entire company of marines our War on Troop Boredom packages in your name. Of course I would need to know which of our 1872 Parkers yoiu are.

You sir are a gentleman, if only your friend were.
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AG, you ALREADY do that and more. Sounds like you are pissed off but rest assured; Parker has not convinced me one bit and I would bet he has not convinced others that this knife was not bought through Mad Dog Knives.

Irrespective of the model name it seems clear that the Doctor called Mad Dog knives, spoke with someone who answered Mad Dog's business phone and took an order for one fugly Butt-ugly knife. Said knife shipped from Mad Dog knives, subsequently returned to Mad Dog knives where it was marked [used this term loosely] and shipped back to the Doctor.

If Mclung was unaware what Fowler/Blade was doing in his ship, unaware that Fowler/Blade could take an order for a Mad Dog knife, make the knife, take payment for the knife and then ship the knife; he is ASLEEP at the switch!!!

If I order a knife from Harry Shitbaum, a Maker and the knife is made and then shipped from harry's shop after his partner/employee/worker made the knife, it is still a Harry shitbaum knife...........yes?????:confused:

And AG; you sir are a true gentleman........................................................period!!!
 
I'm glad somebody mentioned giving knives to the military. In addition to a 25 percent discount for the Military, every year AG Russell sends troops in Iraq and Afghanistan thousands of care packages with books, DVDs, CDs, tweezers, and a pocket knife.
 
Grey Mullet said:
I'm glad somebody mentioned giving knives to the military. In addition to a 25 percent discount for the Military, every year AG Russell sends troops in Iraq and Afghanistan thousands of care packages with books, DVDs, CDs, tweezers, and a pocket knife.
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Sorry Grey,

Every thing is correct except the pocket knife. After the first 11.000 Goldie said that we could not afford the pocket knife.

Wolfman,

I do not know where you got the idea I was upset, this has been a wonderful thread, I learned that we had shorted Parker, and how we can make up for it.
Parker has not harmed me, I am in the right and know it.

Dave has not harmed me he has brought into the open so many of my friends and that has made me feel wonderful.

Now, if someone should expose all of the mistakes we have made while filling over a million orders in the past 45 years, as the person responsible, then I would indeed be embarassed. Just one or two are easily explained.
 
Sorry AG just seemed to me that you were upset, I apologize and am glad your spirits are high.

I have never met a perfect person who has grown through their life mistake free. I used to be a man who was mistake free but then realized I was mistaken............

Have a nice day
 
wolfmann601 said:
Sorry AG just seemed to me that you were upset, I apologize and am glad your spirits are high.

I have never met a perfect person who has grown through their life mistake free. I used to be a man who was mistake free but then realized I was mistaken............

Have a nice day
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The trick is to survive the mistakes and learn from them. I have made many, some of them real dandies.
 
Bottom Line...

A.G. you are a noble man. :thumbup: which is the path less traveled, and the path that requires often a steep toll. Never the less...

Discussion over, Class Dismissed..
 
AG, that is a noble gesture, and done.

My name is Parker. I'll be sending you an email shortly.

Wolf, I guess you and I will never get along. No worries. We have separate lives to lead. As to the original question I posed, do any of you still believe it is ATAK #001, or not? Do any of you believe once the impropriety has been disclosed, it should so remain?

I do not give a flying fig if you all now think Kevin McClung makes a great knife or not. Personally, I hope you do not, it will save on the wait time. But if you are stupid enough to believe that in fact it is exactly as marked, I would suggest looking at knives from a distance, ooo'ing and ahhh'ing rather than BUYING, and particularly pricey ones at that. If you get into buying pricey knives as collection items, KEEP all correspondence, all receipts, shipping labels, etc.

I believe Mr. Russell has a long and excellent relationship with his client. I'm sure the man is quite sincere at this time about his belief in what he owns. He's wrong, but the entrenched are hard to pull out of the trenches. The re-directions and mis-directions are of course concerns which may or may not be important and in this case are not.

There is one central and abiding issue and it has yet to be addressed: if this knife is not the real deal ATAK #001, and the real ATAK #001 is known to be with a certain person, then again, it comes down to ONE SIMPLE QUESTION - if this is lost on the reader, then frankly, your opinion of Mad Dog, AG Russell or myself is fairly moot.

Again, Mr Russell, we appear to have a distinct divergence of opinion here, but I will drop you an email shortly with my name and a quick note. Thank you for your generosity on behalf of a good group of young men unknown to me.
 
Parker said:
Tell me whom among the "true believers" would not be screaming bloody murder if you bought a $3000 knife from ANYONE which turned out to be fraudulently marked?
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This is not a trivial question IMO. I witnessed an analogous situation in my field involving:

-a buyer
-a seller
-a middle man
-the maker of a professional musical instrument -one of the finest in the world
-a disputed phone call to the maker

The issue: was the item stolen or not

The outcome was a lawsuit between the middle man and the buyer (both professionals at the highest eschelon). The middle man lost because it was determined that he most likely knew the item was stolen. Now the middle man, the buyer and the maker are enemies.

The situation went on to involve the original owner and the insurance company who in the end was determined to be the owner of the instrument.

So I would drop this one like a hot potato if it were I.

As an aside I was wondering if/why not the doctor did not save paper work, get the knife appraised for insurance purposes, but I don't know what the practice is with pricey knives as I don't own any. But I have receipts for my valuable items dating as far back as 1975.

Without a paper trail .............
 
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annr said:
This is not a trivial question IMO. I witnessed an analogous situation in my field involving:

-a buyer
-a seller
-a middle man
-the maker of a professional musical instrument -one of the finest in the world
-a disputed phone call to the maker

The issue: was the item stolen or not

The outcome was a lawsuit between the middle man and the buyer (both professionals at the highest eschelon). The middle man lost because it was determined that he most likely knew the item was stolen. Now the middle man, the buyer and the maker are enemies.

The situation went on to involve the original owner and the insurance company who in the end was determined to be the owner of the instrument.

So I would drop this one like a hot potato if it were I.

As an aside I was wondering if/why not the doctor did not save paper work, get the knife appraised for insurance purposes, but I don't know what the practice is with pricey knives as I don't own any. But I have receipts for my valuable items dating as far back as 1975.

Without a paper trail .............
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I think it is grand that you save all your paperwork, my father and my present wife manage that as well. I do not nor do may others including the doctor in question. In fact, the Mad Dog signature on the knife should be enough for anyone. Sadly the doctor does not have the time to persue this in court, nor do I think it would be worth the time and money.

There can be no question that mad dog made and marked the knife, it is just that mcclung is not an honest person. Keepilng the knife up there reminds people of that.

If you had been my customer as long as the doctor, I would be supporting you in a like situation.
 
A. G. Russell said:
I think it is grand that you save all your paperwork, my father and my present wife manage that as well. I do not nor do may others including the doctor in question. In fact, the Mad Dog signature on the knife should be enough for anyone. Sadly the doctor does not have the time to persue this in court, nor do I think it would be worth the time and money.

There can be no question that mad dog made and marked the knife, it is just that mcclung is not an honest person. Keepilng the knife up there reminds people of that.

If you had been my customer as long as the doctor, I would be supporting you in a like situation.
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Certainly there are differences between the two situations, esp. since the instrument was stolen and a claim had been paid. I was contemplating the potential for harm that could attach to to a middle man if the buyer felt cheated, not the question of loyalty to/or credibility of the doctor. As I'm not a party in the transaction this was just an anecdote about a business deal that ended a 40-year relationship between the middle man and the buyer; it was very sad to see the fallout. The lesson I learned was that items with dubious (ultimately in mind of the buyer) provenance can come back to bite. This may not apply at all in this case and I'm sorry if I made a bad analogy.

Ps Believe me, I don't do it for pleasure; I can't get insurance or depreciate my items w/o paperwork:); as I stated I don't know what industry standard is for knives, I was just curious.
 
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I would think a reputable knife maker would offer to correct any problem with a knife with his mark on it, regardless of the questions surrounding the knife. If it has his mark on the blade, wouldn't you think that would indicate some connection to the maker? It appears to be a prototype or a model run not released to the public. This is a very strange story. I hope we can see what the outcome is.
 
rick43t3 said:
I would think a reputable knife maker would offer to correct any problem with a knife with his mark on it, regardless of the questions surrounding the knife..
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To me that seems to be a bit of a stretch.
It would depend on whether he put the mark there or not. If it is not his knife, any correction of a problem on his part would be way beyond a gesture of good will.

rick43t3 said:
If it has his mark on the blade, wouldn't you think that would indicate some connection to the maker? .
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Again. IF he put it there..... YES... IF it is a forgery.... NO.

Would you expect Benchmade or Spyderco to honor a warranty on a "knock off" that had their name and mark on it. If you would, I have a sneakin' feeling you would be dissapointed. ;)

OR, say someone made a good copy of a Fowler and put his mark on it and passed it off. Would you expect him to stand behind it? I doubt it.

rick43t3 said:
It appears to be a prototype or a model run not released to the public. .
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Maybe..... maybe not......... that IMO, is just pure speculatiion on your part.

rick43t3 said:
This is a very strange story. I hope we can see what the outcome is.
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I agree with both of these statements..... :thumbup:
 
The problem herein lies that AG Russell, a man who I believe, says the knife came from the Mad Dog shop. That in and of itself, tells me the knife was made by Mad Dog.
 
rick43t3 said:
The problem herein lies that AG Russell, a man who I believe, says the knife came from the Mad Dog shop. That in and of itself, tells me the knife was made by Mad Dog.
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I understand that totally.
I also think AG is a fine fellow.

BUT,the fact seems to be that AG had nothing to do with the original purchase of this knife.
IF that fact is indeed true, he has no more firsthand knowledge of the original transaction or what really happened involving it than the rest of us.

Therefore there is no way you, me, AG, or anybody else can say with certainity where this knife came from or the circumstances surrounding it.

IF, the good Dr. has / had any of his paperwork from the sale....then it might very well be a different story that could be proven...........otherwise....... we sit here on a cold afternoon shooting the breeze.......... :)

No more.... no less.

As has already been said here..... in cases like this ....DOCUMENTATION is and can be everything.

Reputation of buyer, seller, or middle man; good or bad..... matters not one bit except in the eyes and opinions of others.

And the opinions of others do not tell the true story......... whatever it may be ?????

Only documented facts do.
 
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