What should the Knifemaker's Guild do?

After reading pages of this stuff I believe something positive may come out of it or at
least be considered. I am a member of the Guild because I want to be not beacause
someone else thought I should or shouldn't be. People can be members of whatever
group they want. Certain groups I've heard make "shanks", call new members "prospects"
and have "razor wire" around their hotels--just not where I want to "belong".
Ken
 
Bobby Branton said:
IIRC according to Guild rules, you can only display (sell) the knives of current Guild members or members who have left in good standing. Kevin can help us with that too.
Mike come out of the fox hole bud. We are all on the same team.
BB
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I agree. There shouldn't be any line in the sand. The Guild is not a threat to anyone and only promotes knifemaking and all knifemakers regardless if they are a member. I obviously don't think the Guild should go away. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, just fix a few spokes and get it rolling true again.

The Guild has reached out to the ABS and as Kevin pointed out works with the CKCA. I think there is room for all of the organizations to support and compliment each other while maintaining their own identity and goals.

The Guild show has always been for knives made by Guild Members to display as sell their knives. The Guild has set standards to ensure that when a collector comes to the Guild show they are seeing quality knives made made by qualified craftsmen and trustworthy sellers.

Some are better than others of course. It is always a humbling experience for me to lay my knives on the table at the Guild show. I make good knives and people buy them but when I see some of the work on display at the Guild show my work pales in comparison. That's OK, it drives me to get better. I may or may not ever make art knives but I will continually strive to improve my grinds and perfect my fit and finish.

The Guild has also always promoted knifemaking as an art form. Art knives aren't for everybody but there definitely is a market for them. Anyone who has ever been to a Guild show knows there is always a wide variety of all types of knives on display as there should be.

Of course we need to listen to the customers and anyone in business has to provide a product that people want or they not going to be around very long. Yes, many of us could use some sales training and it an excellent idea to offer it but I also think people like dealing directly with individuals who are as diverse as the knives.

I very much agree that we have a tremendously valuable resource that is not being utilized to it's potential in our honorary members. We need to get them INVOLVED in the Guild and not just provide perks in appreciation of their support.
 
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My response on a suggestion taken from the other thread. I think it fits better in this thread.

Quote:
"I made that suggestion a few years back and it was shot down. I think there is a way to work it into the show until the Guild can recover and have a solid plan to move forward. It would be a cost saving measure to get them through the recession. They could have a lot of Guild activities like the ABS does. The Blade Show already offers a Knifemakers Guild section. They could hold their annual meeting there too.
Bobby Branton"

I really think that's a good idea. Especially for the non US based collectors. I don't have unlimited funds so I can only visit one US based show a year. Last year I went to Blade and if things go as planned this year I will be at the AKI.

With the Guild show with seminars and such, incorporated in the Blade Show it would be worth my while even more to go to Blade every year.

Marcel
 
SharpByCoop said:
Provocative post, Buddy. :)
May those others who don't mess with the internet come forward sometime soon, too. :D
Coop
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Just for the record, the knifemaker I quoted who said "I don't mess with the Internet" was not a member of the Guild.

It does bring up a point that we need to think about though. We have addressed that there are a lot of older knifemakers and collectors. This particular generation gap does cover the Internet.

Today, the Internet is an essential part of doing business and communicating. There are still a lot of people who have never embraced it. A friend of mine who is in his 70s just recently got his first computer and discovered websites and email. Once he got past being intimidated by it, he loves it. Others just aren't interested or think they are too old to learn.

We need to be mindful of that and think of ways to both help people use the Internet and not forget those who won't. I don't have any answers there, just food for thought.
 
I'm about through on this, but specifically I would suggest that the Guild implement the State Leader program more efficiently. As outlined at the time there was supposed to be a State Leader in each state--and specifically NOT a knifemaker, but a collector/customer/enthusiast.

That leader was supposed to organize Guild related activities and showing of the flag within that state. For instance in Louisville the state leader would have blocked a group of tables for Guild members so they could sit together under a Guild banner for National Gun Day, a huge show. In other words these State leaders would be the local representatives of the Guild, getting down to the grass roots. They would seek out the new and up and coming makers in their state, and have the first contact with the collectors, and provide a local outlet for knife interest without requiring an attendance at a single national show that might be half a country away.

I won't get into the specifics when it was accepted but I would be surprised if the Guild today has 50 state leaders, or a majority of leaders who are not knifemakers, or any State Leaders whose terms have been rotated simply because they took the badge, and the credit, and have set on their duffs for several years and done nothing.

From what I have seen of the State Leader program it is ineffective and a shadow of what it was envisioned to be.

I had a Guild member at Louisville remark that he had been asked to contribute on making a state knife, and he said, "I told them at this stage in my career I didn't give my knives away." As I have stated a couple of times here--the collectors and knifemakers who might join the Guild have to see an overall change in mindset. Statements like that indicate there has been little change with some people.

That is not to say there are not a lot of hard workers, because there are. There are plenty of people with the best interests of the Guild at heart--including those who are nostalgic for what the Guild once was and would applaud its return to that prominence.

Excuses on why it is not that way now is not enough. Fix the problem.

But to fix a problem one must first recognize there is a problem.

It is not the current Guild's fault they inherited a problem. They shouldn't have to defend what some short sited people did years ago. However, it is their fault if they don't do everything within their power to change the perception. You've seen enough on these forums to know that the Guild has a public relations problem.

Even if it is a new day and things have changed--that change has to be demonstrated and communicated to the public.

Ron Lake when he was Vice-President of the Guild once made a statement that I committed to memory. He said, "If we want to be a great organization we have to do great things."

The Knifemakers Guild was, and should be, the leading organization for handmade knifemakers and collectors in the world. Ron's words should be followed. Act like a great organization. Lead.

But dismissing good advice, or refusing to even look at it because it steps on a few sensitive toes is not leadership.
 
Allright Gentlemen lets put an end to this Goat Rodeo:

I have sent the Following Email to the Board of Directors of the Guild.

That would be Gil Hibben, Wayne Hensley, Lowell Bray, Kevin Hoffman, WC Johnson, Edmund Davidson and Gene Baskett:


Gentlemen,

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677914

Above is thread entitled “What should the Knifemaker’s Guild do?”

As Kevin has already addressed the Joe Drouin collection issue, I suspect you are aware of this thread.

Mike Carter has been providing the “Guild” perspective as well as he can. As a maker with limited experience with regards to the Guild and what he refers to “Ancient History” when questions, comments and concerns are addressed with regards to the Guilds history. He is looking for help. His exact words were:

“I am disappointed that so few Guild members have spoken up to help and set the record straight about what the Guild is doing and direction it is going. I know a lot of them are here. I feel like the guy in line who didn't move when everyone else took two steps back.”

As all of you have been associated with the Guild for, in some cases, decades…you are intimately familiar with this “ancient” history. As such you know that, while not directly your fault. You understand that those before you have brought the Guild to the point where it is now. At the 40 year mark it has less than half the tables at the show and less than half the voting members than it did 15-20 years ago.

If you read through the thread you will note several excellent suggestions. These suggestions have been made by Makers, Photographers , Collectors and Bruce Voyles. I have not posted on this thread yet. This email will be my first post on this thread.

Gil, as the President of the Guild I feel it is incumbent upon you to address this thread.

If the Guild is content with its current amount of membership and size of the show. And has no plans to try and get back to the 200 – 300 table size that most who have addressed that point in this thread would like. Then say so.

If the Guild is trying to regain the status it once enjoyed in the custom knife community. Then I would recommend you address what changes/improvements have been discussed and how you plan to implement them.

These are my suggestions: some of them will be duplicates of those already stated. My duplication is due to the fact I think they are excellent ideas.

A membership drive:

Honorary Members: Each probationary and voting member in the next two months will nominate at least 5 names for honorary membership. Be sure to let them know about the membership benefits. The Gala and the fact that they are the only ones eligible for the drawing of the knives used in the Guild Show advertising. I suspect there are a lot of collectors who don’t know about that.

Knife Makers: The Board of Directors should each directly contact 1 knife maker a week and ask them to join the Guild. Many of these makers will be former members who at one time had earned Voting membership status. Im sure a onetime exception to policy can be exercised by the Board.

Direct contact with the ABS President from the Guild President. Letting them know both by verbal and written notice that ABS Master Smiths will be granted immediate Voting Status with no probationary period. I realize that this policy already exists as Mike Carter answered that question for Bruce Bump. However, given the fact that only 3 ABS Master Smiths were shown on your Show Lineup…it would appear that the “word” may have to go out again.

Let us know the time and date you contacted the ABS and what their response was. Whether the ABS chooses to do anything about this or not….The Guild has Tried! If the President of the ABS declines, then you can go directly to the makers.

EMAIL: DIRECT MARKETING

Without a doubt dollar for dollar this is the most cost effective form of marketing in the world. It is free, it is direct, it can be measured and it provides the most up to date information available.

Compiling a mail list will initially be time consuming. However once the list is compiled it can be utilized to not only send out pertinent information. It can also be utilized to gain more members by the “Opt In” option. This is where they give you permission to contact them with information related to the Guild.

As an Honorary member since 1987 I have not received one email inviting me to the show.

Utilizing an email marketing you can send out what is referred to as a “Blast”. This could occur at any time during the year. However, the maximum benefit would be obtained if you started doing this 3-4 months before the show. Letting them know who will be setting up. Seminar and other event news…times, locations, seminar leaders, etc.

FACE BOOK:

Some have made the comment about the “aging” of the Guild. Face book is free and is a great place to reach upwards of 50 Million potential members/collectors.

Announcements could be made regularly on the “Wall”. Once again another “permission” marketing opportunity.

GUILD WEBSITE:

Very little traffic something has to be done to bring it more main stream. I feel the Email Marketing campaign could go a long way to this end.

Next, Gil why is your picture and contact info on the front page…You literally are the current “Face” of the Guild. As one of the best known makers in the world, you should be utilizing your celebrity to bring people to the website. Time to set egos aside and utilize a great marketing tool that will benefit the Guild.

At least put the Board Members out front and not have to be looked for (yes they are under “contact”…probably should be relabeled “Knife Makers Guild Board of Directors).

YOUTUBE:

Again this address’s the “aging” of the Guild. Posting video’s on YouTube will be seen in theory by thousands…if not millions. If you get a chance check out how many views things like “how to sharpen a knife” and “how to work a Balisong” have gotten. The Guild needs to do everything it can to go Viral! Oh and it is FREE!


TV, Radio and Print ads in the local newspapers and magazines each year will be less and less valuable. There is a reason that so many newspapers and magazines are failing. These forms of advertising all take a “Shotgun” approach to advertising. In that you run the ads and “HOPE” it reaches someone who is interested. The Email, Face book and YouTube approach (in conjunction with some print , TV and Radio) advertising will increase the number of people who will hear about the Guild and the Show and in turn will increase attendance. The last thing…these forms of permission and target marketing methods I have use cost exactly $0.00. Compare that to conventional advertising rates.

PHOTO GALLERY ON THE SHOW EXHIBITOR PAGE

A full 65% of table holders did not take advantage of this. Why? Mike Carter’s answer was that “Some of members’ didn’t want to mess with the Internet”. Fortunately Harry Matthews was quick to point out that the Internet is not involved. You can either give or mail a photo to the Secretary of the Guild and they will post in the Gallery.

My suggestion was to arrange with the Guild photographer to take a photo of 1 knife from each maker. The cost should be reduced as it will only be given to the Guild Secretary. Single shot, basic background to keep the time and expense to a minimum. At the end of the show, Point 7 can provide a disc with all of those photos to the Guild Secretary. The following year you will have most if not all the table holders represented in the Gallery. I feel this can do nothing but help those considering coming to the show feel better about attending.

I look forward to your positive responses IN the aforementioned thread on Blade Forums.

Best Regards,
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Les Robertson said:
EMAIL: DIRECT MARKETING

Without a doubt dollar for dollar this is the most cost effective form of marketing in the world. It is free, it is direct, it can be measured and it provides the most up to date information available.

Compiling a mail list will initially be time consuming. However once the list is compiled it can be utilized to not only send out pertinent information. It can also be utilized to gain more members by the “Opt In” option. This is where they give you permission to contact them with information related to the Guild.

As an Honorary member since 1987 I have not received one email inviting me to the show.

Utilizing an email marketing you can send out what is referred to as a “Blast”. This could occur at any time during the year. However, the maximum benefit would be obtained if you started doing this 3-4 months before the show. Letting them know who will be setting up. Seminar and other event news…times, locations, seminar leaders, etc.


Best Regards,
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
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I don't know much about the workings of the guild as I've not initiated membership yet (very soon though)

but frankly I am surprised that this is not already being done, CONTACT is the MOST important marketing tool, and E-Mail is just too easy.
 
I have acquiesced to Mr. Kohai999's Request and as such have removed my post.

STeven makes a good point and is now my Sensei of "Kumbya".

My previous Sensei's vessel of knowledge contained such wisdom as

"Pain...is just weakness leaving the Body"

"Pain is just mind over matter....if you don't mind....it doesn't matter".

One day he imparted to me what he felt was his Sensei's greatest nugget of wisdom:

"Sticks and Stones will Break My Bones....But Names Will Never Hurt Me.

Michael Row The Boat Ashore...Hallelujah! Michael Row The Boat Ashore Hallelujah.........:D
 
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Hi Stephan,

I suspect they have some kind of email list. I pointed out that I have never received an email from the Guild...as an Honorary Member.

My next to last experience with a Board Member was being called for my Associate Member Dues.

My last experience with a Board Member...President Shadley was a Letter of Apology.

So a phone call, a letter, but no emails...yet!
 
Les Robertson said:
Perhaps at this point it would be best just to wait for the Board of Directors to respond.
Click to expand...

I welcome your actions and participation in this thread, Les. I would ask, since we are all trying to HELP that you not bait anyone when they respond.

Many see your actions as bullying and attempts at intimidation, I do not. In this thread, however, a gentler touch may go much further in benefitting "the group" than the usual "firing for affect".

Obviously, you are a big boy and may do as you see fit.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Les, since you posted in a civil manner and respecting that you are a honoray member of the Guild, I will reply with my thoughts. I am not speaking for the Guild, Gil or anyone other than myself as a member of the Guild. You clearly have shown no respect for me and probably won't hear anything I say except for a few words of your choosing that you will throw back at me later, but since you addressed me directly with your post, and I have my helmet on, here goes.

First, I don't know why you feel qualified to demand anything of anybody. You demand information. You want Gil to do what you say and report back to you with the time he did it and the outcome. I feel no obligation whatsover to answer to you and I can't image why Gil or anyone else would. There is a BIG difference between asking a question and demanding information.

The Guild has it's own website and forum. While I think Guild participation here on BladeForums can be a good thing as long as they can do it without coming under constant attack, the Guild's website and forum should be their primary Internet focus. When I want information about the ABS, I go the ABS website, not here. The same holds true for the CKCA, NKCA and BSI. All of those mentioned occasionally post on BF but the primary point of contact and current information is, and should be, their own websites and/or forums.

Facebook: I am sure that posting there would reach a larger audience but there are a lot of people, myself included, who have no interest in Facebook, Twitter, MySpace or any of the other socail networking sites that are the hot place at the moment. I will not sign up with them becuase I don't want all of the spam and security issues associated with them. I get quite enough junk email already thank you.

There are some good suggestion in what you wrote. Are these the suggestions that you wanted payment for? If so, thank you for your generousity. Many of them have already been discussed here. Others have been discussed or are currently in the works even though they had not previously been brought up here. I just didn't feel the need to report them to you.

The Guild functions as a group but even as a group, nothing happens without individual action. That requires people take the time and make the effort. Many of us do, some more than others. The reality is that as much we might want to spend all of our time working for and promoting the Guild, most of us have to make a living and and have a life outside of the Guild. It would be nice to have a large full time staff dedicated to driving the Guild and I am sure if we did more things would get done faster. But we don't. I really didn't have time to spend all day yesterday on BF but when the balloon went up I felt it was important to do it so I did.

As with any sucessful organization like the Guild, a lot of people volunteer a lot of time and effort to make things happen. I don't know how some of them do it with all of their other obligations but I am thankful that they do. We are doing our best. Changes are happening. Some quickly, some more slowly, but we ARE moving forward and once again growing..

Mike
 
Hi Mike,

I appreciate that you have been holding the fort for the Guild.

But I would really like a response to my email that was sent to the Board Of Directors....from the Board of Directors.

As ultimately they will be the ones who implement any suggestions that have been made by me and others in this thread.
 
Hi Les,

Thanks for all of your good suggestions and for all the time you've spent thinking about the Guild and how to help us out. Although criticism is always a little painful and sometimes a lot painful it's like going to the gym, "no pain no gain".

Mike has done an admirable job of speaking for the Guild and I Thank him for stepping up in a very tough situation. Les, I know that you aren't much for cheer leading, but it's the guys like Mike who still have the enthusiasm and love for the Guild that will be there to help us make things better.

We do direct mailings to our past customers, but we have been very slow in coming into the 21st century and adopting the newest technology available for direct marketing and that's something that we just can't ignore going forward. Unfortunately being late to this technology game puts us at a disadvantage and like you said it does take some time to compile an effective direct marketing "Blast" capability. Facebook and YouTube are the future as well, unfortunately we Board Members don't seem to have enough teenage kids to act as consultants and speed up our learning curve.:o

As for our history, ancient and otherwise we need to learn from it because we've done considerable damage at various times through in fighting and public and private feuds that were very damaging to the Guild. I'd like to take the opportunity to extend a hand to all the former members who have left the Guild for whatever reason to reconsider and either rejoin or at least start a dialog that could lead to mending a few fences.

I've been reading the Forums for the past couple of days and I'm going to print them out so that I can high lite all the suggestions and criticisms so that I can add that input to our deliberations.

For those that don't know you, you can come across as a bit abrasive, but I'd suggest that "No Nonsense" is closer to the truth. I can't speak for past administrations, but I and the present Board are open to hearing any constructive suggestions from any quarter. We may not be able to afford your services, but I'll take any more freebies you care to part with.

Thanks for your concern, Kevin
 
Hello, I'm not sure of anyone's interested in what I have to say, but it's worth a shot. My name is Frank Fischer. I am a newer/young knifemaker. As a new businessman, Mr. Bradshaws suggestions would make the guild more appetizing for me and I think any newbie at that. Provide us young guys with the knowledge to be successful businessmen as well as excellent knifemakers. We need the traditions to last, not to be extinguished by name poor management and name calling... What's with the name calling? It all seems like very greed driven attitudes. I feel I am a quality knifemaker from the inside out, but I have no real business skills. It would seem to me a knife show full of outgoing, business minded, intellectual knifemakers would be most beneficial for the guild and its surroundings. Also, hosting in a place with an international airport sounds like a BIG necessity.

Another issue for me is that I use a CNC mill. What's the major discrepancy with a guy who has learned an entire new skill set on top of all the traditional methods? I guarantee if you'd take a 15th century blacksmith and introduce him to the CNC world he would be all over it. Okay, I can understand a guy who sends a drawing, a blank check, and some materials to a cnc machinist and says, "make this", and calls it his hand crafted knife, wanting the elite guild membership, be snarled at. But as Mr. Bradshaw, myself, and a growing number of cnc machinist, suffer from these restrictions, it makes the guild suffer too, imo. I would love to attempt to be a part of "THE KNIFE MAKERS GUILD" but not if there is going to be name calling, jealousy, greed, backstabbing, and tool restrictions.?.?.?

Just my $.02
 
What's wrong with provocative? Two definitions in my dictionary are: (1) To cause to take action (2) To stir into action.

Benevolent and provocateur are words neither paradoxical nor pejorative. To be one, however, is difficult because the job demands smarts, sweat, credibility, good will, and rino-skin to repel the abuse from those who can't discern between tough love and defamation.

One of the most important men in my life was a such a man who loved me enough to test my mettle. It was crushing and I was fighting mad, but in the end I did the sobering introspection. It made me better, much better, and I cannot forget the man or the lesson even in old age.

The Guild, it seems, needs their mettle tested. They don't need defensive measures--foxholes and helmets--but rather sponges to absorb all the input they get. Loving the message or the messenger is not required or relevant. But the wise will consider everything to winnow out all of the gems and trashcan the rest.

Frankly, the way Les was received in the other thread is problematical to the proposition of a new day dawning on Guild receptivity. No one contributed as much as he did, and who can claim more credibility or more inside knowledge of the Guild. That he comes with a full blitz is passion spilling over from a Type-A persona not that his good will is lacking. This approach is the first tenant in mettle testing, and if the recipient can't or won't stand up to a harsh challenge then the story is over, for the ambrosia will be mistaken for hemlock.

I'm not asking you to like the SOB (a compliment Les), but to be blind to his succor is malfeasance. Pay his fee: If he is right the Guild will rise from the ashes. If he wrong, the Guild can bury him once for all. Is that not a win-win for all of us. LOL

Mike, that you have persisted and are joined by Kevin are good signs, but forgive me if I'm not overly festive, for the "baby" is still in the womb and the worse birth pangs are yet to come.

The advice by others that the Guild should systematically interact with BF is golden, because BF is not only a treasure trove of expertise, it can play credibility and accountability roles for the Guild. Transparency is critical, and I believe the next step after all the advice has been assimilated and tentative strategies adopted (concise and measurable so they can be evaluated), that the Guild returns with its "Newborn" to lay on BF's Alter of No Mercy to the scrutiny of BF wolves (just the civil ones defanged by STeven LOL). If the Guild has the moxee and the "baby" survives, then we can all be sure that the Guild is more than a windbag and burst into to a thunderous chorus of cumbaya.

ken
 
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Mike and Kevin, I will guarantee you that Spark and the owners of the other major knife forums
would welcome you with open arms. You then could introduce your new found friends to the Knifemakers Guild forum.

I hate to add this, but it seems that neither of you have the Knifemakers guild website link or a link to their forum in your sig lines. Maybe that is one reason why no one can find you. Mike did have the forethought to add his websites in his sig line. Ken and Harry have the seal, but they are not linked to anything.
BB
 
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Hi STeven,

Im sorry...I tried.

Mike:

You demand information
Click to expand...

If Gil were to stop quickly would you break your nose?

I wrote:

Gil, as the President of the Guild I feel it is incumbent upon you to address this thread.
Click to expand...

Incumbent: Imposed as an obligation or duty

You will note that the word Demand is no way associated with the definition of "incumbent"

Since Gil is the President of the Guild, yes it is his duty and his obligation to be accountable to the membership. As an Honorary Member....I am part of that membership. As such I asked him to respond to this thread.....as well as the other Board members. I demanded nothing.....I asked.

I feel no obligation whatsover to answer to you
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Mike, if you notice you were not listed as one of the email addresses. Consequently, input on my request to the Guild Board is no longer required from you.

Quite frankly you were not on the address list for two reasons. First you are not on the Board of Directors...which means you have No Power to provide guidance to affect change. Second, enthusiasm seldom if ever equates to knowledge and/or experience. You are a perfect example of this.
 
Hi Ken,

If he wrong, the Guild can bury him once for all. Is that not a win-win for all of us. LOL
Click to expand...

Wow and people say Im abrasive. :D

At this point Im sure the Board of Directors knows I would welcome the challenge.

I appreciate the Kind? words. :D
 
I have more input but no time.

But I can't leave with the feeling that I've short-shrifted Bruce's wisdom, especially the historical review imperative. This may have happened because Bruce is too nice to be the helpful provocateur that I wanted to underscore.

ken
 
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